WOW, flat on its face. California prices have hit bottom.. | Page 3 | FerrariChat

WOW, flat on its face. California prices have hit bottom..

Discussion in 'California/Portofino/Roma' started by FLORIDAsnakeEyes, Oct 26, 2019.

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  1. BOKE

    BOKE Beaks' Gun Rabbi
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    I'm with you. What Ferrari is selling at 15% of MSRP adjusted for inflation???? I don't see it.

    Use the worst 355 as an example. 1995 Berlinetta @ $130K MSRP.

    Try any Ferrari. Over the last 25 years, most Ferrari held up better than most luxury marques. Porsche crushes most competitors, but a five-year-old GT3 held value better than any production Ferrari. The 25-year rule buoys up the best cars in the long run.

    The bottom line is that kali prices show typical depreciation at this point in time. These are just used cars.
     
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  2. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    A 348 was 122K MSRP back in 1991 which is $230K in today's dollars.

    I saw many 348s bottom out at 35-40K 5-6 years ago. so that's 15%-20% 355s are at what 60K?. That's a 75% drop. Not saying they will stay there forever, 348 prices have already rebounded That's where the 15%,20%,25% numbers I threw out there came from.
     
  3. BOKE

    BOKE Beaks' Gun Rabbi
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    Is that depreciation or decrepitude??? ;)

    Depreciation isn't the only factor in the price of a 25-year-old car of any type. YMMV
     
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  4. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

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    #54 4th_gear, Oct 28, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
    I think leasing is one of the worst things to affect values of exotic cars... because those "buyers" actually cannot afford those cars and they can't buy a lease to cover maintenance costs if the free-maintenance period is over. Heaven help them if they get into a small fender bender. If you don't believe me just look at condo buildings that are mostly inhabited by renters - the units get trashed and owners who actually live in their units see their units' value plummet.

    People should buy their cars to keep. So I think potential buyers need to stick to the best examples on the market and realize they need to be careful of what they choose to buy. These are not collectible cars and their values will likely keep depreciating for some time. I'm in my 60s and I ask myself why I should wait to buy a car I like if I have the money. If I keep waiting I won't be enjoying the car while it has less mileage and more miles put on it by someone leasing the car who may abuse the car so by the time I buy one, they will all have all kinds of questionable mileage on them. And by that time I will be too old to actually get the most out of them.

    It's like asking yourself - would you like to buy exotic cars that were used as exotic rentals?

    If you actually enjoy driving and modifying cars, you should buy the best examples and just enjoy them. I think if you need to "market time" a purchase, it means you cannot actually afford the car and you will be much happier spending your time and money doing something else.
     
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  5. carnutdallas

    carnutdallas Formula 3
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    I think the the 2010 Cali price is effected by the 2013 prices and they will continue to go down. I have been told by many I trust to only buy a 2013 or newer Cali and 2013 can be bought close to $100k give or take some for mileage desired.

    I am watching 2013 prices after the new year. Spring bump for sure and the see where it goes.


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  6. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Why a 2013? Wldnt it make sense to go cali t with handling package?


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  7. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    That isn't any different from why you should buy a 575 over 550 or 328 over 308. Each is an improved model with more to offer.
     
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  8. carnutdallas

    carnutdallas Formula 3
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    A T is more money for sure, but I am
    Not buying this car for a handling package. I would go 430 for that experience or a 458..... I prefer the 488’s I have driven, but at 6’4” I need sports seats in those cars and frankly they are to expensive for me. My wife would enjoy a Cali and would replace her 650iC BMW.... so for now, I would buy a 2013 with the improvements, stay at close to $100k, mitigate the depreciation curve at 6-7 years old and get a better car than the 2010’s

    I buy cars that let me enjoy them, with little to no loss for time of ownership. So far so good in the last 25 years. I factor that into all my purchases. I contributed my comment because I think the 13 represents a much better value. The T’s are better for sure, but seem to be a lot more money and not enough for my needs.

    I sold all my 355’s and deciding what I am going to do for 2020 to own another Ferrari. I don’t think I want any more $120k+ cars. Granted we have a 2019 Lincoln Navigator and I have a 2018 Ram Power Wagon, so my sporty car needs to be less money or a push for ownership cost. I have owned one vehicle more than 4 years in my lifetime. I plan on making the Ram and Lincoln long, long, long term possessions. No need to buy others.

    Enjoy the insights and the the thread. Cheers!


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  9. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Are all 2013s Cali 30s?
    T
    Edit - Wiki says yes.
     
  10. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    I dont know. I’ve had 2 calis and 1 cali t ober the years to keep my status- never particular cares for any of the calis.


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  11. carnutdallas

    carnutdallas Formula 3
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    I believe first year for T is 2015. I just went to Ferrari Dealers Pre-owned nationwide search and T’s show 2015 and up.


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  12. Piper

    Piper Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I've been too busy to respond, still am, but in short. The original Cali is only ugly to those who won't buy it. It's the best selling Ferrari in history so clearly opinions vary. I for one really love the blue over brown that Floridasnakeeyes hates and that's okay. But they are not going to depreciate to zero. If a 348 can maintain some value, the Cali, every Cali, certainly will. Like all others, many will be totaled by deferred service and eventually supply and demand will reach equilibrium at some value sufficient to keep the remaining examples serviced. They'll settle in the $50-60k range for well sorted, high miles is my guess.
     
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  13. vjd3

    vjd3 F1 Rookie
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    Ferraris in general are a bit hard to gauge in terms of percentages, as well, because a car can have a gigantic sticker price due to the options but that doesn't seem to hold much sway in the preowned market. You can find a used $300k sticker California but it's not likely to sell for much more than a $225k sticker car, provided it has the basic must-have options -- shields, Magneride, etc.

    This makes sense, because if you have a bunch of different cars, and you're putting minimal miles on annually on a Ferrari (1k miles), then something like a 458 makes more sense as you want the more intense event type experience when you do get behind the wheel. But if you're driving your Ferrari everywhere as well as on the back roads, and putting on 8k-10k miles on during the driving season, then the California is a great choice.

    The way I see it, any Ferrari is going to depreciate, and if I'm spending the money, I'm spending it behind the wheel. It's chilly and grey out here today, but I'll be taking my Cali T out to the grocery store in a few -- top down, heated seats on.

    After all, big butts have gained status in popular culture lately ;)

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  14. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    i agree 100% with you...if i lived in a warmer climate id have a cali for sure. in the northeast given what i have to choose from the 430 spider checks my topless box!

    ive prob been unfair to the cali as it always felt like i was having one shoved down my throat. fwiw i hated my FF because of this as well but fell in love with it and now 32k miles and 8 years later....
     
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  15. steved033

    steved033 F1 Veteran
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  16. Piper

    Piper Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #66 Piper, Oct 29, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
    Yeah, they all depreciate and from my perspective, being one who buys just out of warranty and typically hold 18-24 months, they all depreciate about the same at that point in the curve. The higher the miles of the car you buy, the lower the cost of the miles you lay down behind the wheel and the less paid in property tax.
     
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  17. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    The CA will be the perfect starter Ferrari for many people. Fast enough, convertible, and has shields on the sides.

    If they can stomach repair costs they will enjoy it.
     
  18. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    its hard to disagree - but driving a 430 is the ferrari experience - is driving the cali a ferrari experience or something just short of it? thats what ive wrestled with.
     
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  19. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    My friends, if you want to know hate in looks, look no further then my Mondial. What I've learned my experience is folks will always hate no matter what. As rappers say, let the haters hate. Drive what you love.

    I've seen people 'hate' on F50s, Dinos, 412s, 330s, 612s, really any car. Heck, I remember when people said the Enzo was ugly. I mean many people hate the FF/Lusso or wait until the FUV comes out of you want to see some serious nashing of teeth!

    Everything is relative.
     
  20. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    The CA prices should end up much lower than an F430 spider when they bottom out.

    The CA is a much more everyday kind of machine. Its more practical which will appeal to more people who want a "Ferrari" but only have so much to spend.

    I honestly don't see the issue with the CA and getting one for under 80K. People who bought it 10 years ago lost 10 grand a year if they kept it that long. Take a look at a McLaren.

    As long as older CA's aren't in the shop every week, the value will hold. If they are cheap to buy but expensive to repair then they will fall like a stone.
     
  21. 86 Cab

    86 Cab Rookie

    Sep 7, 2019
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    My California T is my 3rd personally owned Ferrari. I was also lucky enough to spend a good deal of time behind the wheel of my late father in-law’s GTB/4. (...and Muira SV). I had a 550 Maranello and a 6 speed 360 Spider prior to the California. I have 18k on the California T. The depreciation is about 50%. It find it a great car in rossa/nero (like the other two). Would it be better with a manual 6 speed, yes, absolutely. Too many electronics, yes (but I like Apple Car Play) I liken it to my SL65 AMG. Unlike the AMG, the California T can put all its 50 less bhp on the road. I like the California much more than the Aston DB9 V12 Volante that proceed it as my “Florida car”.
    There is no sense in indulging trolls like FL Snakeeyes. If you can write the check, write it and enjoy your Ferrari. If you can’t, STFU.


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  22. BOKE

    BOKE Beaks' Gun Rabbi
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  23. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

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    #73 Il Co-Pilota, Oct 29, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
    This really hits the nail on the head for me. Not so much whether it has to be an F430, but definitely the part about it being a complete and pure Ferrari experience.

    But what exactly defines that? For me I struggle with the Lusso V12 as well. Yex it has a V12, but something about the softness and über-GT feel of it, kind of subtract from it. I don't get that feeling of doubt from the FF, in which I am instantly put in touch with something I can relate to the sportscar line - both mid engined V8 as well as front engined V12 variety. This is personally my struggle, as I don't quite get that connection from the Cali either. For me like the Lusso, it somehow is a bit too far off from the more performance focused models, to really convey what Ferrari is truly capable of.
     
  24. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    So for me, and it sounds like we are simpatico on this, the test is wld my wife want to drive it? She has driven the 458, ff, 430, and cali. The only one she said she wld willingly drives is the cali. She said it felt the same as driving one of the 4 maseratis ive had. The other cars were “too much” for her. That too much is the ferrari experience for me. Its all a personal thing. If my father wanted to buy a sub 100k ferrari id encourage him to buy a cali. For my brother, a 360 stick or 430 f1. At sub 150k id still recommend the cali for my father and for my bro a 458. The cali has a place in a stable or a family, for sure.


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  25. BOKE

    BOKE Beaks' Gun Rabbi
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