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Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by stevew3765, Oct 28, 2013.

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  1. stevew3765

    stevew3765 Formula Junior

    Oct 27, 2012
    716
    Tulsa, Oklahoma USA
    Full Name:
    Steve Wool
    #1 stevew3765, Oct 28, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Last I checked. I was reasonably intelligent. Why am I not getting ant reading on the multi meter I just purchased. I am troubleshooting my instrument cluster namely the op gauge to see if I have voltage but, this meter is giving me no reading no matter what pin on what connector I put it in. And I know a lot of stuff works. Yes I am grounding it. Thanks 97 355 spider.
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  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
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    Did you check the condition of the internal fuses, and put a battery in it ;)?
     
  3. jayz

    jayz Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2006
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    Los Angeles, CA
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    Jess
    try setting the dial to 20volts. it think that should give you a reading.
     
  4. Jaguar 15

    Jaguar 15 Formula 3

    Mar 27, 2013
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    Hunt. Bch/Palm Dsrt/Virginia
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    Jim Crawford
    Get a new 1 1/2 V battery and see what shows. If not 1 1/2, take it back....easy enough.
     
  5. stevew3765

    stevew3765 Formula Junior

    Oct 27, 2012
    716
    Tulsa, Oklahoma USA
    Full Name:
    Steve Wool
    Isn't that why I have a digital reading of 0's?
     
  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,931
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    If the internal fuse is blown, the meter display may still work, but the probes will be (internally) disconnected from the functional bits (or it may just be broken ;))
     
  7. hanknum

    hanknum Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
    2,050
    Santa Barbara
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    Henry
    Put it on one of the resistance settings and touch the leads together, you should see close to zero ohms. This will tell you if the leads are good and at least the ohm meter is working. Then try a quick test on a 1.5v battery. If none of this works, then check the fuse.
     
  8. redlightrich

    redlightrich Karting

    Jul 28, 2009
    98
    north New Jersey USA
    Full Name:
    Rich
    I think the 3rd poster was correct. Set the dial to the 20v setting. It may not be sensitive/accurate enough to record low ( battery 12-13 voltage) on the 200v scale.

    Good luck
     
  9. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2004
    5,856
    NoNJ/Jupiter FL
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    Steve W.
    Did you check to see if the meter is working at all? Touch the leads to the + and - directly on the car battery, with meter set on 20 as suggested. If you get no reading, then there is something wrong with the meter. If you get a reading on the meter at the battery but not at the gauges, then that's relevant.
     
  10. stevew3765

    stevew3765 Formula Junior

    Oct 27, 2012
    716
    Tulsa, Oklahoma USA
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    Steve Wool
    yes. It is working. I tested an electrical outlet. Take the op and water temp gauge for instance. I have voltage in the first pin but nothing in the rest of them and I know good and well the water temp is working but, I think the meter says it doesn't. (no voltage) I am testing the connectors with them energized. (battery and lights switched to on with key turned on as well). I guess I am hoping it's the meter...
     
  11. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
    10,406
    This (or even a lower range setting if you are trying to get voltages from IC components / circuit board locations ----- they will typically be a helluva lot less than battery voltage of 12V, and some of them may even be AC rather than DC).

    And, if your meter came with an instruction manual, it may be worth your time to read it ;).
     
  12. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    the potential difference between the two leads on the gauge is going to be based on the resistance. Or in other words the voltage measured between them will be small as the gauge is known as a D'Arsonval ammeter. The sensor sending the signal is grounded to the chassis and varies the ground via resistance which in turn the gauge is displaying. To measure the voltage find a ground on the body, then measure at the leads, you'll find a small difference between each depending on the sensitivity of the meter.
     
  13. andyww

    andyww F1 Rookie

    Feb 7, 2011
    2,775
    London
    There would be some kind of voltage regulator in the circuit which prevents readings changing with battery voltage.
    On older cars a digital meter would not be able to measure the gauge voltages because they used crude bi-metal strip voltage regulators which outputted pulses. The 355 would not use this but maybe Veglia used a semiconductor device which creates pulses. Not come across this but it would explain why you are not getting a reading.
     
  14. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
    10,406
    Andy,

    He has stated that he is measuring with reference to absolute (chassis) ground, however. Assuming he is doing that correctly and actually has the other probe on a true chassis ground point, then the meter should be (at the very least) reading and displaying nominal battery voltage (or whatever the power supply voltage is within the circuit) as an "absolute" relative to ground regardless of whether or not "gauge voltages" are present at the test points ----- would you not agree ?
     
  15. andyww

    andyww F1 Rookie

    Feb 7, 2011
    2,775
    London
    This would not be the case on the old fashioned system using a mechanical voltage regulator. The 12 volts is fed into the regulator which outputs pulses, then through the gauge, then through the NTC thermistor , to ground. Measuring at any point other than the 12V feed results in pulses which a digital meter would not display.

    But thinking about this some more I think its highly unlikely that the system uses pulsed voltage. I think there should be a varying voltage on the sensor wire as expected and that there is some problem with the measurement , probes not contacting properly or incorrect ground point etc. On a conventional system the voltage should vary from about 3 volts when cold to 1 volt when hot.
     
  16. Smiles

    Smiles F1 World Champ
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    Nov 20, 2003
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    Which is why you have it set on 200 volts.

    For the third time, set it to 20. :)

    Matt
     
  17. stevew3765

    stevew3765 Formula Junior

    Oct 27, 2012
    716
    Tulsa, Oklahoma USA
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    Steve Wool
    #17 stevew3765, Oct 31, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hey Matt. I did set it on 20. I just never posted to say I did. Sorry bout that. Here's the thing. I am trying to see if I have voltage to the connector for the oil pressure gauge because it's dead! The sender has been replaced. So, I am grounding one lead to the car and sticking the other lead in each pin on that connector and am not getting any readings. on 200 on 20 makes no diff.
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  18. andyww

    andyww F1 Rookie

    Feb 7, 2011
    2,775
    London
    Not familiar with the wiring here, but is there a pin on the connector which goes to both the oil pressure gauge and the temp gauge (12v feed)? Presumably that has 12 volts on it as the temp is working.
    The oil pressure gauge has a red warning light which is not lit either so it seems to be no 12 volt supply to the gauge.
     
  19. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
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    Ferrari use a VDO oil pressure sender which must have the case grounded to work properly. But I think you should still get a voltage at the connector, and I'll post a schematic of that circuit if I can find one.
     
  20. stevew3765

    stevew3765 Formula Junior

    Oct 27, 2012
    716
    Tulsa, Oklahoma USA
    Full Name:
    Steve Wool
     
  21. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
    BANNED

    #21 Cribbj, Oct 31, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here's the schematic. I thought you'd probably see "some" voltage at the "G" terminal of the harness, with or without the sender connected, but I may be wrong. The sender is connected in the path to earth from the gauge.

    One way you can tell if things are working or not is to leave the harness lead disconnected that would normally go to the sender terminal "G". That should give you a max reading on the gauge, then earth that same contact and the gauge should go to minimum.
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  22. stevew3765

    stevew3765 Formula Junior

    Oct 27, 2012
    716
    Tulsa, Oklahoma USA
    Full Name:
    Steve Wool
    Thank you....
     
  23. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
    10,406
    Steve ---

    Another consideration is that Italian cars are nearly as notorious as British cars for having poor / infrequent chassis ground paths ---- even paths through the wiring harness can be inadequate (often the "fault", by the way ;)).

    Whenever I do electrical checks on these cars, I am in the habit of connecting my "negative" probe directly to the negative battery terminal to ensure that I am tapped into a "true reference ground". For convenience, I usually connect a long jumper cable to the negative battery terminal so that I can run the other end of it close by to whatever location on the car I am testing. I would STRONGLY recommend doing this for your measurements.
     
  24. stevew3765

    stevew3765 Formula Junior

    Oct 27, 2012
    716
    Tulsa, Oklahoma USA
    Full Name:
    Steve Wool
    Thank you. I am going to do that tonight for sure I will post results. I can't believe I have no voltage out of any pin on that connector especially knowing the temp gauge works. Operator error for sure...
     
  25. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    Apr 1, 2004
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    umm the 355 isn't exactly wired like that really nice schematic John posted. I'll have to do a screen shot of the schematic but the gauge is tied in to the circuit board for the dash display. after the fun tonight I'll get it..
     

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