WUR Vacuum Connection | FerrariChat

WUR Vacuum Connection

Discussion in '308/328' started by Ferraridoc, Dec 8, 2016.

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  1. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2012
    17,218
    Gold Coast, Aust.
    Full Name:
    Patrick
    I have been trying to research this, but it's not clear. I have an Australian delivered '85 QV which has a problem maintaining idle when warm. The usual scenario is a longish drive on a highway, then down the off ramp to a red light and it dies. Can be maintained with throttle, and easily restarted.
    I was thinking air leak, which sealed when hot, leaving it too rich. It also has the typical hard to hot start after a few minutes, and I have replaced the accumulator already. I removed the throttle body to get at the injectors (will be replacing them), when I noticed that the vacuum line to the WUR was before the butterfly, not after it. Shouldn't it be after (downstream of) the butterfly? There is a blanked off port there, which may have been for (long gone) pollution system (no cats, but I think they had EGR).
    Any thoughts?
    The WUR has only one vacuum connection. I've seen diagrams in my research showing two for some markets.
     
  2. andyww

    andyww F1 Rookie

    Feb 7, 2011
    2,775
    London
    Some have one vacuum connection which is at the bottom, on one end and this connects downstream of the butterfly.

    They have another hose on the top near the electrical connector but thats not a vacuum connection. I dont believe the function of this hose is documented exactly but its likely just an air vent to equalise pressure inside the body of the WUR.

    Too rich when warm might be caused by a poor connection on the connector on the top of the WUR or a sticking valve inside it, amongst other causes.
     
  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,785
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Depends on which K-Jet system. The K-Jet without Lambda WUR senses downstream of the butterfly to add enrichment under load; The K-Jet with Lambda WUR senses upstream of the butterfly to measure the atmospheric pressure. Do you have a K-Jet without Lambda system (silver fuel distributor, no frequency valve/pulsation damper, no O2 sensor in the exhaust) or K-Jet with Lambda (black fuel distributor with frequency valve/pulsation damper and O2 sensor in the exhaust)?
     
  4. robo330

    robo330 Formula Junior

    Apr 15, 2014
    608
    Michigan USA
    Full Name:
    Karl Robertson
    My Hot Start problem was attributed to 1) Faulty Fuel Accumulator 2) Incorrectly functioning WUR ( the little "thingy" inside was cocked over) and when these were fixed, the Hot Start problem went away. Since then, I have also changed the Fuel Injectors as part of the Plenum and Throttle Body re-finish exercise. 2 of the Injectors were not holding pressure - they were wet on the test bench. The car seems to start and run even better now with the new injectors and there have been no Hot Start issues, though we are into winter here in Michigan!
     
  5. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2012
    17,218
    Gold Coast, Aust.
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    Patrick
    Thanks Andy
    The WUR has been rebuilt, so hopefully working

    Thanks Steve, that makes sense. K-Jet without lambda on the QV

    Thanks Karl, should have the injectors in soon - very busy at work this time of year!
     
  6. robo330

    robo330 Formula Junior

    Apr 15, 2014
    608
    Michigan USA
    Full Name:
    Karl Robertson
    G'day Patrick! I am a fellow Aussie but live here in the US. I see you are up on the Gold Coast, whereas I am from Melbourne. Anyway, realizing that it may be difficult to find some parts in Oz, let me know, I may be able to help you find stuff here in the States.
     
  7. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 World Champ
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    Jun 20, 2012
    17,218
    Gold Coast, Aust.
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    Patrick
    Thanks Karl. I've bought a few bits from the US, but the shipping is outrageous! The yanks really are getting screwed on this. If ever you move home, I'll get an order together to stuff into your container! Watch out for those icy roads.
     
  8. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2012
    17,218
    Gold Coast, Aust.
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    Patrick
    Having looked at lots of pics of the 1,000+ variations in design of the WUR, and studied their working principle, I went back to a basic medical adage: "most mistakes are from not looking, rather than not knowing", so I had another look and realised that my model doesn't have the load compensating vacuum connection - the hose is merely a vent to atmosphere, and so plugs into the intake before the butterfly (presumably to keep crap out of the WUR).

    I did get the injectors in, though, and have noticed an improvement in mid-range torque (using the arse-o-meter), but still having idle problems, so it's time for an expert with a gas analyser to set the mixture properly and go from there.

    In the midst of all this, the starter motor has packed it in. Don't you love these cars?
     
  9. andyww

    andyww F1 Rookie

    Feb 7, 2011
    2,775
    London
    Indeed, as I mentioned in post 2.

    Its worth connecting a gauge and checking the control pressure changes properly as the WUR warms up. This can be done without the engine running. The values are in the workshop manual.

    If its been rebuilt it should be OK but you never know.... also the electrical connection could be bad.
     
  10. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2012
    17,218
    Gold Coast, Aust.
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    Patrick
    Yes, quite. I'll get the control pressures done when the mixture is set up - WUR was meant to be done by a reputable firm, but always worth getting some measurements. I'll also check the connectors.
     
  11. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2012
    17,218
    Gold Coast, Aust.
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    Patrick
    I just put a gear reduction starter in. Bugger me, does it make a difference! Part of the hard to start issue may have been the old starter (a 328 one, as it turns out). No access to a gas analyser, so I'm going to cautiously lean it out a bit, measuring the mixture with Special Tool No. 1 (my nose), and then dyno it with Special Tool No. 2 (my arse).
     
  12. robo330

    robo330 Formula Junior

    Apr 15, 2014
    608
    Michigan USA
    Full Name:
    Karl Robertson
    Spoken like a Dinky Di, True Blu Aussie!!!
     

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