Yes, I converted my F1 575 to a gated, three-pedal manual

360trev · Dec 27, 2018

tazandjan said: ↑

Trev- 360 has Motronic 7.3 and 575M has Motronic 7.1.1 like the F430. Should be very similar.
Click to expand...

I'm now 100% convinced I could do this relatively quickly but I need someone to pm me and send a 575 firmware dump image..... That's the starting point. This is how I started on the F430 and it's now also working without immobilizer box plugged in.

PAUL500 · Dec 28, 2018

I did drop you a pm a while back offering a pair of 575 ecu in the UK you could tinker with.

I did find a lot of info and reflash options for the 575 available online for this ecu and it s shared with a lot of VAG models as well, will see if I can dig them out and pm links to you

devinwsmith · Nov 10, 2019

This is Devin (from the gas station). Wonderful talking to you, today. Fascinating that you did this conversion and hope that it has led to some interest from others. If you wind up doing a product, I may be able to help with some of the graphics. It’s the least I could do for the advice you gave, today.

Great talking to you at the QT today. I would send you a DM, but I don’t have enough permissions, yet. Feel free to message me, directly.

Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app

Soren · Nov 10, 2019

Hey, Devin. Great to talk to you as well. Evidently PMs aren’t working here anymore- apologies in that. I did send an e-mail through your website, though. Take care, and all the best, and keep me in the loop on the Aventador.

MRY · May 23, 2020

Any updates on the list of parts needed to do the conversion?

Thanks [emoji1431]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

chris greco · Jan 4, 2022

How can you tell a converted 575 by just looking/inspecting it vs a factory gated?

tazandjan · Jan 4, 2022

Not if they change out the steering wheel trim.

tazandjan · Jan 4, 2022

I guess you could check the part numbers on the Motronic ECUs to see if they were manual or F1 originally. Some bought new ones, but most reflashed the ECUs. That is getting pretty down in the weeds, though, and not something the casual observer would find.

Ferrari55whoa · Jan 4, 2022

tazandjan said: ↑

I guess you could check the part numbers on the Motronic ECUs to see if they were manual or F1 originally. Some bought new ones, but most reflashed the ECUs. That is getting pretty down in the weeds, though, and not something the casual observer would find.
Click to expand...

We are assuming a deGroot style conversion with OEM parts and not an EAG conversion right?

Ferrari55whoa · Jan 5, 2022

Ferrari55whoa said: ↑

We are assuming a deGroot style conversion with OEM parts and not an EAG conversion right?
Click to expand...

I guess in addition to a google search of the vin for threads or checking the registry in Nathan's book would always help.

I really love his book and I've been in and out of that registry like crazy (its neat/fun).

Ffre92 · Jan 5, 2022

chris greco said: ↑

How can you tell a converted 575 by just looking/inspecting it vs a factory gated?
Click to expand...

It will say it on the window sticker or monroney label. The Ferrari dealers all have access to it, but whether they are willing to be helpful is another story. My local dealer was not, but a really generous out of state dealer was, when he really didn’t have to be!

stefano1810 · Feb 12, 2023

Soren said: ↑

Id been planning on converting a 575 since selling my 550.

Hi Bruce, look amazing.
Can you contact me and let me know how I can do it too. love it
Thank you (stefano [email protected])

The investment in time, money, and effort has been significant.

The reasons I have not yet done shared the details of the project are varied, but primarily, its been the sheer amount of work invested in the project, the amount of time it would take to document it fully, and the responses Ive read in other manual conversion threads, such as for the 360 models.

My 550 dashboard removal thread took me several days to prepare and post, and this would be more involved. At some point I will share the details of the modification (and hopefully soon, depending on my workload from my consulting business).

For now, here is what I feel comfortable in sharing:

1. Yes, its possible to convert an F1 575M to a gated, three-pedal manual 575M.
2. There will be no diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs) or Check Engine Light (CEL) if the conversion is done properly.
3. The car will run and drive exactly as an OEM 550 or gated 575 would drive.
4. The converted clutch actuation and the shift feel will be better than an OEM 550 or gated 575M. This is not hyperbole; there are objective reasons for this. This has been confirmed by some very experienced Ferrari technicians.
5. The car will pass emissions. Mine passed the Georgia emissions test last week with flying colors.
6. The OEM F1 Bosch Motronic ECUs can not be used as programmed from the factory. Believe me, I tested this extensively. It was my hope that other conversions would be able to use the OEM F1 ECUs. But the silver lining is that your OEM F1 ECUs *might* be able to be reprogrammed with the specific Bosch Motronic manual ECU software to enable a successful conversion. Im still researching this.
7. While it is possible to re-create an OEM gated manual transmission car, and I might well turn mine into one, it is easier and less expensive to convert an F1 575M to a gated manual three-pedal without duplicating the OEM methodology. In this case, an owner can leave their F1 system on the car and have the ability to swap back in less than a day.
8. Im working on creating a kit that will allow a 575 owner to convert their car to a gated manual. The parts list by itself is very extensive. There are also many parts that are NLA from Ferrari. This necessitates maintaining a vigilant eBay watch for the requisite parts, and hoping the parts that are purchased are actually what are needed (I have a small storeroom of parts that should have been what were needed, but did not work properly for one reason or another). The other alternative is to fabricate the necessary NLA parts, which I have taken steps to pursue both from a traditional manufacturing approach (subtractive manufacturing, such as machining) and additive (such as 3D printing with sintered metal).

My ultimate goal is to provide the information necessary to convert an F1 575M to a gated manual 575M.

Ill be sharing this information at a later point, after the NLA part production has been solidified. Id also like to offer a complete conversion kit, as well as providing the complete conversion service. I have no idea what to charge for such a service.

To those of you who would be interested in converting your own cars, please reply to this thread and let me know your thoughts on how you would feel some sort of compensation would be fair. It occurred to me try a Kickstarter-type project, but I knew that I was going to go through with it for myself, so the investment on my part to see the project through to fruition was a given. As I mentioned, I will be posting the details later to help those of you who would like to undertake this project yourselves. My interest is to keep these cars running as long as we (and hopefully future yet-to-be owners) are willing to drive them. But if you have some ideas on how to help me at least recoup the time and money Ive invested in the project, I'd appreciate hearing them.

Before anyone starts screaming capitalist epithets at me, I would like to point out that no one is going to get rich off of any manual conversion kit for our cars. The OEM take rate for a gated 575 was less than 12% (Terry, correct me if Im mistaken on that), and I dont believe most 575M owners would actually commit to the cost of converting their cars to a stick-and-clutch operating system.

There is a reason for this. The clutch on a 550 Maranello or a gated 575M is not for the faint-hearted. There is no lever arm or clutch fork to multiply your quadriceps effort in pulling the pressure plate off the clutch face. There is only hydraulic fluid flowing through tiny tubes, through a flange, and into the throwout bearing. This is a different experience from driving a manual transmission in a Honda or Corvette or Porsche.

When I let people drive my old 550 Maranello, and this includes people who owned and drove manual transmission vehicles from other manufacturers, the first response from pressing the clutch pedal was something between a gasp and a curse. My friend Jon, who opened my eyes to the engineering acumen of Porsche engineers when he let me borrow his manual 997 911 turbo for a month, summed it up concisely when I let him drive in my 550 Maranello: Why does your car have two brake pedals?

There is a way to make the clutch effort significantly smoother and easier, and Ill detail it later.

The other part of the equation is the actual shift feel. My 1992 Corvette that I bought wrecked with 15k miles on it and repaired to use as a commuter car in college had a ZF six-speed transmission that shifted very, very smoothly. I taught many novices without any mechanical inclination at all how to drive a manual on that car, and it still shifted like glass and had the original clutch at 140,000 miles.

The Graziano box is not so smooth. Of course there are reasons for that, and I know that many people will disagree and come to the defense of Graziano and Ferrari, and I understand that. Im not being disloyal, and Im not being disparaging. I am attempting to be objective.

Having now had a cumulative 20,000 miles worth of experience between driving a gated manual 550 Maranello and an F1 575M, I can understand why the F1 system was developed. I can also understand why it was so popular with new car buyers. Remember back in the beginning of this post, when I said Id been planning on converting a 575 to a gated shifter car after selling my 550? Ive had the parts and the ability to do it for the past year, but I didnt actually commit to doing so until this past November, a full year after Id been driving my car. The reason is simply that the F1 system in the 575 is good. Its not as quick or advanced or smooth as a Porsche PDK, but it is enjoyable to use, it works as intended, and it was fun to learn how to interact with it.

And that, I think, is the key: you cant hop in an older single-clutch F1-transmission car of any manufacturer and expect it to be like a current-day dual clutch. You must remember that its still a single clutch that is interrupting the delivery of power by being mechanically pushed and pulled by a hydraulic actuator. The intrinsic joy that comes from such a device is learning the skill to actuate that device, not from the lap times or shift times that such a device purportedly offers. There will always be something better, faster and stronger coming up next.

Personally, I love shifting gears for myself. The clutch effort on my 550 never bothered me during the 12,000 or so miles I drove it, even in Atlantas notorious and frequent stop-and-go traffic. Similarly, the slightly-reduced clutch effort of my 575M thankfully doesnt trouble me at all at this point in my life.

I love the feeling of being the intermediary control between the creation of the power from the V-12 engine and the distribution of that power to the rear wheels. I love feeling the clutch release, and I delight in the exact moment that I match the engine RPM to the spinning disc and seamlessly transfer power and rotational momentum to the rear wheels. I love the feeling of those hair-breadth engagements from matching rotational velocities that allow me to shift smoother than any automatic transmission Ive ever driven, including the Porsches doppelkupplungsgetriebe. And I love the clicking and clacking of the shifter rod as I work it through the gate.

Theres a romance between the interface of the human and the machine that reaches me, and Im grateful for being able to experience it. I also believe that other 575 owners should be able to experience it. And they should experience it without spending $400,000 or more.

I hope this has answered some questions that have been asked in other threads where Ive mentioned my car. Ive felt bad for their original threads derailing into discussions about my own car when Ive posted a response, and I hope that no one took my silence to some inquiries as aloof disinterest. It was not.

Some of the other comments were also about my interior, which is no longer stock. Purists look away- I swapped out portions of my 575Ms blu scuro interior with a cuoio interior from a Swedish 550 Maranello that I purchased from Erik Eriksen (F456M here on F-chat, and a wonderful person with whom to do business).

The lack of center console storage space also was a bother. There is a lot of empty space in that center console, so I fabricated some aluminum panels to take advantage of that storage space and covered them in some leather that pair well with the OEM cuoio color. My TPMS display fits in there well, and theres plenty of room for other things as well. I even fabricated a stainless steel cover reminiscent of the older ashtray cover from the mid-60s Ferraris to cover the big space that used to be occupied by the OEM black ashtray. It works spectacularly well as a cup holder too, which Im sure might cause some grave rolling somewhere.

Its a personal preference, but I have an affinity for the 550 Maranello door panels, quilted rear shelf, and non-Daytona seats. However, I prefer the dash and binnacle from the 575M. Love it or hate it, the end result is something that I like. The switches on the door panel arent for the windows; thats the control for the power mirrors, which I had to relocate from the 575Ms interior door handle mechanism. It required some fabrication work, but Im happy with the result.

In fact, so far, Im happy with the entire car. I made it into the car I wish I could have purchased brand new. It isnt new, but I tell myself it doesnt matter, and even if I couldnt afford it then, at least Im working to make it better.

If there are any owners out there who would be interested in converting their car to a manual, have patience. Im working on a way to help you do it.
Click to expand...

stefano1810 · Feb 13, 2023

Hi
Can you please contact me to further discuss the conversion kit.
I would love to buy one.

Thank you

Soren said: ↑

Id been planning on converting a 575 since selling my 550.

The investment in time, money, and effort has been significant.

The reasons I have not yet done shared the details of the project are varied, but primarily, its been the sheer amount of work invested in the project, the amount of time it would take to document it fully, and the responses Ive read in other manual conversion threads, such as for the 360 models.

My 550 dashboard removal thread took me several days to prepare and post, and this would be more involved. At some point I will share the details of the modification (and hopefully soon, depending on my workload from my consulting business).

For now, here is what I feel comfortable in sharing:

1. Yes, its possible to convert an F1 575M to a gated, three-pedal manual 575M.
2. There will be no diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs) or Check Engine Light (CEL) if the conversion is done properly.
3. The car will run and drive exactly as an OEM 550 or gated 575 would drive.
4. The converted clutch actuation and the shift feel will be better than an OEM 550 or gated 575M. This is not hyperbole; there are objective reasons for this. This has been confirmed by some very experienced Ferrari technicians.
5. The car will pass emissions. Mine passed the Georgia emissions test last week with flying colors.
6. The OEM F1 Bosch Motronic ECUs can not be used as programmed from the factory. Believe me, I tested this extensively. It was my hope that other conversions would be able to use the OEM F1 ECUs. But the silver lining is that your OEM F1 ECUs *might* be able to be reprogrammed with the specific Bosch Motronic manual ECU software to enable a successful conversion. Im still researching this.
7. While it is possible to re-create an OEM gated manual transmission car, and I might well turn mine into one, it is easier and less expensive to convert an F1 575M to a gated manual three-pedal without duplicating the OEM methodology. In this case, an owner can leave their F1 system on the car and have the ability to swap back in less than a day.
8. Im working on creating a kit that will allow a 575 owner to convert their car to a gated manual. The parts list by itself is very extensive. There are also many parts that are NLA from Ferrari. This necessitates maintaining a vigilant eBay watch for the requisite parts, and hoping the parts that are purchased are actually what are needed (I have a small storeroom of parts that should have been what were needed, but did not work properly for one reason or another). The other alternative is to fabricate the necessary NLA parts, which I have taken steps to pursue both from a traditional manufacturing approach (subtractive manufacturing, such as machining) and additive (such as 3D printing with sintered metal).

My ultimate goal is to provide the information necessary to convert an F1 575M to a gated manual 575M.

Ill be sharing this information at a later point, after the NLA part production has been solidified. Id also like to offer a complete conversion kit, as well as providing the complete conversion service. I have no idea what to charge for such a service.

To those of you who would be interested in converting your own cars, please reply to this thread and let me know your thoughts on how you would feel some sort of compensation would be fair. It occurred to me try a Kickstarter-type project, but I knew that I was going to go through with it for myself, so the investment on my part to see the project through to fruition was a given. As I mentioned, I will be posting the details later to help those of you who would like to undertake this project yourselves. My interest is to keep these cars running as long as we (and hopefully future yet-to-be owners) are willing to drive them. But if you have some ideas on how to help me at least recoup the time and money Ive invested in the project, I'd appreciate hearing them.

Before anyone starts screaming capitalist epithets at me, I would like to point out that no one is going to get rich off of any manual conversion kit for our cars. The OEM take rate for a gated 575 was less than 12% (Terry, correct me if Im mistaken on that), and I dont believe most 575M owners would actually commit to the cost of converting their cars to a stick-and-clutch operating system.

There is a reason for this. The clutch on a 550 Maranello or a gated 575M is not for the faint-hearted. There is no lever arm or clutch fork to multiply your quadriceps effort in pulling the pressure plate off the clutch face. There is only hydraulic fluid flowing through tiny tubes, through a flange, and into the throwout bearing. This is a different experience from driving a manual transmission in a Honda or Corvette or Porsche.

When I let people drive my old 550 Maranello, and this includes people who owned and drove manual transmission vehicles from other manufacturers, the first response from pressing the clutch pedal was something between a gasp and a curse. My friend Jon, who opened my eyes to the engineering acumen of Porsche engineers when he let me borrow his manual 997 911 turbo for a month, summed it up concisely when I let him drive in my 550 Maranello: Why does your car have two brake pedals?

There is a way to make the clutch effort significantly smoother and easier, and Ill detail it later.

The other part of the equation is the actual shift feel. My 1992 Corvette that I bought wrecked with 15k miles on it and repaired to use as a commuter car in college had a ZF six-speed transmission that shifted very, very smoothly. I taught many novices without any mechanical inclination at all how to drive a manual on that car, and it still shifted like glass and had the original clutch at 140,000 miles.

The Graziano box is not so smooth. Of course there are reasons for that, and I know that many people will disagree and come to the defense of Graziano and Ferrari, and I understand that. Im not being disloyal, and Im not being disparaging. I am attempting to be objective.

Having now had a cumulative 20,000 miles worth of experience between driving a gated manual 550 Maranello and an F1 575M, I can understand why the F1 system was developed. I can also understand why it was so popular with new car buyers. Remember back in the beginning of this post, when I said Id been planning on converting a 575 to a gated shifter car after selling my 550? Ive had the parts and the ability to do it for the past year, but I didnt actually commit to doing so until this past November, a full year after Id been driving my car. The reason is simply that the F1 system in the 575 is good. Its not as quick or advanced or smooth as a Porsche PDK, but it is enjoyable to use, it works as intended, and it was fun to learn how to interact with it.

And that, I think, is the key: you cant hop in an older single-clutch F1-transmission car of any manufacturer and expect it to be like a current-day dual clutch. You must remember that its still a single clutch that is interrupting the delivery of power by being mechanically pushed and pulled by a hydraulic actuator. The intrinsic joy that comes from such a device is learning the skill to actuate that device, not from the lap times or shift times that such a device purportedly offers. There will always be something better, faster and stronger coming up next.

Personally, I love shifting gears for myself. The clutch effort on my 550 never bothered me during the 12,000 or so miles I drove it, even in Atlantas notorious and frequent stop-and-go traffic. Similarly, the slightly-reduced clutch effort of my 575M thankfully doesnt trouble me at all at this point in my life.

I love the feeling of being the intermediary control between the creation of the power from the V-12 engine and the distribution of that power to the rear wheels. I love feeling the clutch release, and I delight in the exact moment that I match the engine RPM to the spinning disc and seamlessly transfer power and rotational momentum to the rear wheels. I love the feeling of those hair-breadth engagements from matching rotational velocities that allow me to shift smoother than any automatic transmission Ive ever driven, including the Porsches doppelkupplungsgetriebe. And I love the clicking and clacking of the shifter rod as I work it through the gate.

Theres a romance between the interface of the human and the machine that reaches me, and Im grateful for being able to experience it. I also believe that other 575 owners should be able to experience it. And they should experience it without spending $400,000 or more.

I hope this has answered some questions that have been asked in other threads where Ive mentioned my car. Ive felt bad for their original threads derailing into discussions about my own car when Ive posted a response, and I hope that no one took my silence to some inquiries as aloof disinterest. It was not.

Some of the other comments were also about my interior, which is no longer stock. Purists look away- I swapped out portions of my 575Ms blu scuro interior with a cuoio interior from a Swedish 550 Maranello that I purchased from Erik Eriksen (F456M here on F-chat, and a wonderful person with whom to do business).

The lack of center console storage space also was a bother. There is a lot of empty space in that center console, so I fabricated some aluminum panels to take advantage of that storage space and covered them in some leather that pair well with the OEM cuoio color. My TPMS display fits in there well, and theres plenty of room for other things as well. I even fabricated a stainless steel cover reminiscent of the older ashtray cover from the mid-60s Ferraris to cover the big space that used to be occupied by the OEM black ashtray. It works spectacularly well as a cup holder too, which Im sure might cause some grave rolling somewhere.

Its a personal preference, but I have an affinity for the 550 Maranello door panels, quilted rear shelf, and non-Daytona seats. However, I prefer the dash and binnacle from the 575M. Love it or hate it, the end result is something that I like. The switches on the door panel arent for the windows; thats the control for the power mirrors, which I had to relocate from the 575Ms interior door handle mechanism. It required some fabrication work, but Im happy with the result.

In fact, so far, Im happy with the entire car. I made it into the car I wish I could have purchased brand new. It isnt new, but I tell myself it doesnt matter, and even if I couldnt afford it then, at least Im working to make it better.

If there are any owners out there who would be interested in converting their car to a manual, have patience. Im working on a way to help you do it.
Click to expand...

Ferrari55whoa · Feb 13, 2023

stefano1810 said: ↑

Hi
Can you please contact me to further discuss the conversion kit.
I would love to buy one.

Thank you
Click to expand...

Stefano,
I don't think Soren/Bryce has been on F-chat for a long time. You can normally click a person's profile then click Info and then see the following which is from me an as an example. If you take the time to read his threads and posts (which I did historically) he was a pioneer on the conversion and did it all by himself (I believe) just by being a very smart guy and being very hands on. He wasn't running a business -- I believe he was doing it for the personal joy of doing it.

The "Stats" section shows my "last activity" as of 30 seconds ago -- Bryce's is blank so he likely hasn't been on since around his last posting which I think was 2019.

I don't think anyone right now "sells a kit"......EAG in texas keeps talking about it and noted they would limit it to 50 kits at one point (noted on instagram). They still haven't released their kit and one of our own friends here has been waiting a very long time for his car to be completed.

Hope this is helpful......

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stefano1810 · Feb 14, 2023

Thank you so much, very helpfull.
I will try to explore other route.
I really will like to do this project

Ferrari55whoa · Feb 14, 2023

Only takes time and money…..

Sergio Tavares · Feb 14, 2023

Ferrari now will sell many clutch friction discs

Chupacabra · Feb 14, 2023

Sergio Tavares said: ↑

Ferrari now will sell many clutch friction discs
Click to expand...

If you know how to drive a manual and are pretty on/off with the clutch, my guess is you’ll go through less clutch than with the F1, even if F1 is in sport mode. I’m experiencing way less slippage

tazandjan · Feb 14, 2023

Sounds like your PIS was not optimized.

Chupacabra · Feb 14, 2023

tazandjan said: ↑

Sounds like your PIS was not optimized.
Click to expand...

Mine was fine, but I think using reverse, for instance, is considerably easier on the clutch. Of course to be fair my clutch hasn’t exhibited a lot of wear to this point, and certainly nothing unusual.

tazandjan · Feb 14, 2023

Using reverse is rough on the clutch because the ratio is nearly as high as second gear. Makes no difference F1 or three pedal.

Condor Man · Feb 15, 2023

tazandjan said: ↑

Using reverse is rough on the clutch because the ratio is nearly as high as second gear. Makes no difference F1 or three pedal.
Click to expand...

This may be the case however whilst reverse you can put your foot on the clutch and roll into position versus the F1 that just continues to slip until you stop.

May the Horse be with you

tazandjan · Feb 15, 2023

F1 locks up in reverse just like the other gears. Take one out to an empty parking lot and try it. Old wive's tale that it continuously slips.

Rifledriver · Feb 15, 2023

tazandjan said: ↑

F1 locks up in reverse just like the other gears. Take one out to an empty parking lot and try it. Old wive's tale that it continuously slips.
Click to expand...

The 360's did but it was an earlier generation.

Rifledriver · Feb 15, 2023

Ferrari55whoa said: ↑

We are assuming a deGroot style conversion with OEM parts and not an EAG conversion right?
Click to expand...

No one is using much in the way of OE parts unless they are lucky enough to find a donor car. Ferrari simply did not make many spare parts because so few were made. The exception would be parts common to 550 but I bet at this point few of the required 550 parts are available either. I mean how many clutch pedals do you need on the shelf? It not like they break.

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