Yet another 348 clutch rattling noise thread | FerrariChat

Yet another 348 clutch rattling noise thread

Discussion in '348/355' started by Finpat, Sep 21, 2023.

Tags:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Finpat

    Finpat Karting

    Sep 17, 2021
    227
    Finland
    Full Name:
    Kari Lehtinen
    There are plenty of clutch noise and odd behaviour related threads but it seems that I have a bit different set symptoms:

    1) When idling and gear on neutral, warm or cold, a very faint rattle can be heard. I pretty sure it is coming from direction of pumpkin. Pretty sure, but not absolutely, 100% sure. 30+ yrs old power train will always make some noises.

    2) When clutch pedal is pressed to the bottom, a very clear rattling sound can be heard in cabin. The rattle comes at the bottom 1/4 of the pedal travel.

    3) When clutch pedal is on the top 3/4 part of the travel the rattling sound can't be heard. Only the same very faint noise as on idle.

    4) The clutch engagement is taking place in very short travel, quite close on the top of the pedal travel.

    Clutch disc and pressure plate are pretty fresh, TO bearing is a bit older. The car is 1991 TS.

    Any guidance and/or guesses what would be the root cause(s)?
     
  2. andrejwolk1975

    andrejwolk1975 Karting

    Feb 28, 2020
    101
    Italy
    Full Name:
    Andrea M
    Flywheel? Is there any cluncking/rattling noise when you turn off the car? Have you got any problem in starting the car when it is well "warmed"?
     
  3. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,384
    socal
    WAG pressure plate finger
     
  4. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2018
    5,716
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Eric
    Happens at a stans still while not movig?

    Pull The clutch and have a look it's possible you broke a pressure plate finger for exampme.no way to tell without looking. Ernie has a good thread on clutch repair. 3 bearings in there too, could be voith is dry and if so ita gonne get expensive unleass you fabricate new blocks.

    Cant really tell over the internet but good sense says pull clutch to start and have a look. Easy to do.
     
  5. Finpat

    Finpat Karting

    Sep 17, 2021
    227
    Finland
    Full Name:
    Kari Lehtinen
    I forgot to mention in opening post that the car (or the toy, actually) starts butter smooth when warm.
     
  6. Finpat

    Finpat Karting

    Sep 17, 2021
    227
    Finland
    Full Name:
    Kari Lehtinen
    I will pull the clutch when driving season ends in a week or two. Beautiful and warm fall day still today.
     
  7. Finpat

    Finpat Karting

    Sep 17, 2021
    227
    Finland
    Full Name:
    Kari Lehtinen
    Now the dual disc clutch is on the floor.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    At least all the fingers all are there and by looks of it triple seals are not leaking. I will open the clutch pack tomorrow to see if flywheel bolts are the culprits. Do I need some special tool for opening the flywheel retaining bolt?
     
  8. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,384
    socal
    If the clutch pack is good then I would pull the clutch shaft to make sure the transfer gear is properly staked to torque. When the lock ring come loose the gears bang on each other and will eat each other and be very costly. A faint noise as you describe could be you got it early and perhaps just get away with proper tightening. This was not done right at the factory. This was 1st found on the 348 challenge cars because they were run harder. Of course I'm a track guy and drive my Ferraris so I found this the hardway too. There are threads on here about the issue and me rebuilding my gearbox and then helping Ernie to rebuild his gearbox and the "Stooges" were born.
     
    ernie likes this.
  9. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2011
    3,147
    Malaysia - KL
    Full Name:
    Miroljub Stojanovic
    #9 m.stojanovic, Dec 23, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2023
    Yes, if the special low head flywheel bolts (those that require an M8 Ribe Bit) were replaced by standard allen bolts, the bolt heads might be contacting the housing as the clearance there is very small. To inspect these, you don't need to disassemble the clutch. Just take the whole clutch/flywheel assembly out of the housing (loosen the allen grub screw and undo the large hat-bolt) then look for any scratches on the housing.
    Before taking the assembly out, you can try rotating the clutch assembly positioned as shown on your picture on the floor and listen for any faint scratching sounds. You can also try by having the clutch assembly upside down and rotating the housing while pressing down on it.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  10. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2011
    3,147
    Malaysia - KL
    Full Name:
    Miroljub Stojanovic
    ernie likes this.
  11. Finpat

    Finpat Karting

    Sep 17, 2021
    227
    Finland
    Full Name:
    Kari Lehtinen
    I hope it is something simple like flywheel bolts scraping the casing. I have browsed few of the transfer gear staking threads and they look a bit intimidating.
     
  12. Finpat

    Finpat Karting

    Sep 17, 2021
    227
    Finland
    Full Name:
    Kari Lehtinen
    The unloaded clutch assembly rotates freely without any screech when pumpkin is facing the floor. Very good tip about loading the clutch assembly pumpkin facing up. I will put some soft wood under the setup and then press it down.

    That is project for tomorrow, today is the time for Xmas food coma.

    Merry Christmas from Frozen Tundra for everybody!
     
    steved033 likes this.
  13. steved033

    steved033 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Apr 12, 2017
    9,304
    Atlanta, GA
    Full Name:
    Steve D.
    like this? LOL. when I got my car, the flywheel bolts had backed themselves out....all of them...like they'd never been torqued. A light touch on the pedal and clack-clack-clack-clack!!!

    fixed, serviced, and 6 years later just fine...

    sjd


    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  14. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,384
    socal
    That's a new one for me. I have never seen that.
     
  15. steved033

    steved033 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Apr 12, 2017
    9,304
    Atlanta, GA
    Full Name:
    Steve D.
    My money was on dead throwout bearing, or maybe a broken finger....sure sounded like a really dead bearing. Opened it up, it already had the hill bearing and body inside, and all the fingers were intact. There was grease everywhere so I decided to do the flywheel service. I got it apart was was like oh.....i see...

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    sjd
     
    ernie likes this.
  16. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,384
    socal
    Amazing! One of the issues is these cars are decades old with many owners and many mechanics finger prints. There is a lot of bad out there added to the natural failure of these cars.
     
  17. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    100,190
    Mount Isa, Australia
    Full Name:
    Pap
    Whoops, mechanic forgot to torque those bolts up.
     
    steved033 likes this.
  18. Finpat

    Finpat Karting

    Sep 17, 2021
    227
    Finland
    Full Name:
    Kari Lehtinen
    Clutch pack opened and re-packed, no oddities found. Nice and clean looking as it should after just a couple of thounsands kilometres. Now going back in and I focus pedal travel adjustment.

    [​IMG]
     
    fdekeu likes this.
  19. fdekeu

    fdekeu Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 19, 2008
    628
    Belzium
    Full Name:
    Frank
    Is the rattle still present?
    Could have checked with the flywheel off
    Use earplugs ;-)
     
  20. Finpat

    Finpat Karting

    Sep 17, 2021
    227
    Finland
    Full Name:
    Kari Lehtinen
    Too early to tell. I suspect that throwout bearing travel is too long when clutch pedal is fully pressed. We will see, or actually hear in couple of days once I get everything back together.
     
  21. fdekeu

    fdekeu Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 19, 2008
    628
    Belzium
    Full Name:
    Frank
    Travel too long = different master cilinder?
    May be a good idea to change the slave seals while your in there
     
  22. Finpat

    Finpat Karting

    Sep 17, 2021
    227
    Finland
    Full Name:
    Kari Lehtinen
    Good point about master cylinder. Must check.

    Slave seals were brand new. Clutch was open last time in 2022, about 4000km ago.
     
  23. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,384
    socal
    funny how everyone takes off the rear bumper. That is not needed.
     
    PAP 348 likes this.
  24. Finpat

    Finpat Karting

    Sep 17, 2021
    227
    Finland
    Full Name:
    Kari Lehtinen
    I am a Ferrari newbie so more space to work in an unfamiliar territory helps. Also a shiny stainless steel exhaust from Protoxide is going in.
     
    fdekeu likes this.

Share This Page