You gotta be kidding me! | FerrariChat

You gotta be kidding me!

Discussion in '308/328' started by Rival, Aug 14, 2005.

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  1. Rival

    Rival Formula Junior

    May 12, 2005
    399
    Misipi
    Well, I'm not sure what to say......Just got the 3.2 Mondial Cab back from a major service, and I was nonplussed! .....just want to vent a little........

    I consider myself to be of better-than-average knowledge when it comes to F-cars, but I have to admit, I was unprepared for what was to come! I guess I have to attribute a bit of my disgust to not doing enough research, but I did what would "normally" considered to be prudent before I bought this car.

    I worked at a factory-authorized dealership for several years in the late 80's-early 90's, so I'm pretty familiar with most F-cars of that vintage, as well as the amount of service required of same. However, what I didn't realize is exactly how ^&%$^#@ RIDICULOUS the parts prices have gotten in the last decade!!!!!! When I worked at the dealership, F-parts prices for those year models fell in a range a bit above Jaguar prices, but a bit below Maserati prices.....WOW have things changed!!!

    I have to tell you that much of the excitement of owning a Ferrari has been taken away due to the service cost on this car. Again, I was very familiar with the service procedures/intervals associated with these cars; however, the parts prices have gone up so much since then, they just, well, they just make me &*^% ANGRY! It's no wonder that so many of these cars are garage queens! When you wonder how much even the slightest new problem will cost, it sort of removes the desire to fire it up and take it out.

    Let me add two points before the flames start: (1) the cost of purchase and associated major service costs are not of even the slightest financial burden to me. That's not a boast, as I'm sure many of you reading this could "buy and sell me" thousands of times over. I'm just saying that I can comfortably own and maintain this car. (2) this is the 72nd car I've owned, and many of them have been considerably more valuable than this one. Furthermore, I do most of my own work on my non-Ferraris, and I say this because I'm not an automotive novice by any stretch

    Basically, because I have owned many higher performance cars than this, I guess I'm just wondering at what point one has to stop and say WTF? Yes, it IS a Ferrari, and I like it, etc; however, at some point, don't the parts costs/overall costs of ownership just pi$$ you off? Yes, while you can certainly find cars with much higher performance for considerably less maintenance costs, I know "they're not Ferraris." Likewise, I've been around/driven these cars since the early 80's, and had the real desire to own one since that time........Now that I own one, I'm starting to wonder if it's worth it.....What am I missing? Maybe I need to ask "If I didn't own a Ferrari, what marque would offer that amount of 'shock value' for that amount of money?" Is that the real question?

    I really like the Mondial. However, even considering the amount of work I "should" do myself, the amount of money it takes to service it is so outrageous, it just makes me MAD! For example, maybe if I didn't know that I could've bought 2 new complete 400hp Corvette crate engines for what I paid to essentially "tune up" a small-displacement Italian V-8, I wouldn't be so irritated! This may sound absurd to the readership here, but it's almost the principle of the issue that's got me angry. I know they're small-volume exotics, but that's almost not an excuse in my book.

    Yes, I'm shocked by the parts cost, but I'd also like to hear what you think I'm missing about the ownership experience..........
     
  2. Dane

    Dane Formula 3
    Owner

    Apr 25, 2002
    1,512
    Man. Now this was a vent thread. Whew! :)

    Another way you could look at it is this. The more you fire it up and drive it the better off it'll be. I know my 308 is much happier when driven regularly.

    Just a thought to ease the sting.

    Dane
     
  3. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
    2,722
    Little Rock
    Full Name:
    David Jones
    So what was the cost of the service that got you in such a tizzy?
    I mean after owning 72 cars, you had to have some clue, right?
     
  4. Rival

    Rival Formula Junior

    May 12, 2005
    399
    Misipi
    I only WISH I'd had a clue!

    $7,300. 30K service, plus what I consider to be somewhat minor extras (compressor service, gulp valve, CV and boot service, a couple of plug wires, etc.). Example: better than $200 for cam cover gaskets? $250 per distributor cap? C'mon! Also, still having trouble with the compressor (BTW: it's a Sanden SD 508 - one of the more common compressors on the plant - regularly, +/- $250, but if you decide to buy it from Ferrari: $2,200) Again, why?

    The labor was probably more than normal, because the folks I used - though FNA service educated - hadn't done one in a while. That was my decision and not a fault of Ferrari. I trust the tech and specifically wanted to use him.....still, my biggest beef is the explosion of parts prices (the costs over which I have virtually no control)
     
  5. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
    2,722
    Little Rock
    Full Name:
    David Jones
    So did you just take you car in and say, perform a 30k service on it?

    Just wondering, because your owners manual does not show a 30k service.

    The service at 31,250 miles is the following....

    Replace engine oil
    Check gearbox and differential oil level
    Check battery connections and charge
    Check brake fluid and clutch
    Check brake wear, pads and rotors
    Check belt tension, alternator, waterpump, A/C
    Change air filter
    Check spark plugs, rotors, ignition connections, & replace if necessary
    Check timing belts for wear and condition
    Replace fuel filter
    Check air/fuel mixture
    Check steering rack, rod ends, drive shafts, lube
    Check and lube hinges, bonnet, engine, doors
    Check frame structure and body panels.

    What did you have them do?
     
  6. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 30, 2003
    18,067
    Savannah


    wow. no wonder you are angry. i would be too. if you have any mechanical skills at all, perhaps next time you can do some of the service work yourself, and learn some new tricks on ferrari's in the process.

    i cannot fathom why the a/c comp was so much/ NAPA sells them for less than $300 and several small shops around here said they can rebuild mine if i ever care to fix the a/c in the Dino or the GTB. take her out, fill the tank and flog her all afternoon. make her pay you back in smiles. :)
     
  7. sparta49

    sparta49 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Mar 3, 2001
    7,804
    LA
    Full Name:
    Frank
    250 for a distributer cap wasn't that bad must have been aftermarket. Now if you wanna talk expensive lets talk about my $800 alternator for my 348 that I must assume Tiffany & Co. is fashioning out of platinum for me.
     
  8. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 30, 2003
    18,067
    Savannah

    Frank, ? you cant get a local shop to rebuild it? are the new ones propietary to Ferrari? seems everything is AC DELCO "something" and fixable.

    sheesh, another reason to keep the old carb cars........
     
  9. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
    13,477
    Never home
    Full Name:
    Dr. Dumb Ass
    Sounds like someone hasn't priced Mercedes Benz parts lately...
     
  10. Dcup

    Dcup F1 Veteran

    Jan 3, 2005
    8,645
    Between 2 Implants
    Full Name:
    Claude Balls
    sell it, i ll give ya 8500 cash.
     
  11. Rival

    Rival Formula Junior

    May 12, 2005
    399
    Misipi
    Replace engine oil - YES
    Check gearbox and differential oil level - REPLACED
    Check battery connections and charge - YES
    Check brake fluid and clutch - YES
    Check brake wear, pads and rotors - YES
    Check belt tension, alternator, waterpump, A/C - REPLACED belts, checked alternator, replaced water pump, checked a/c, replaced cam plugs, adjusted valves, etc.....the whole "major service" deal
    Change air filter - YES
    Check spark plugs, rotors, ignition connections, & replace if necessary - REPLACED plugs, rotors, caps, a couple of leads, etc.
    Check timing belts for wear and condition - REPLACED both belts
    Replace fuel filter - REPLACED
    Check air/fuel mixture - YES
    Check steering rack, rod ends, drive shafts, lube - YES
    Check and lube hinges, bonnet, engine, doors - YES
    Check frame structure and body panels. - YES

    More items included, but I don't have the service ticket here. Keep in mind that I'm not really being critical of labor costs, as I know they spent some time on it. I am, however, completely shocked at the parts total!

    Again, the labor total is not what makes me so angry. Any mechanic working on cars like these has to have better than average competency (that goes for most high-end makes) I'm just flabbergasted at the parts prices! As for the a/c compressor, Ferrari wanted $2,200 for compressor and clutch. I didn't pay that; that's just what they wanted vs. a new unit from another source (which is what I fully intend to use)

    You're furthering the case I'm pointing out! Don't those types of prices just send you through the roof??? Afer all, it's an ALTERNATOR, not an engine block!
     
  12. RAMMER

    RAMMER Formula 3

    Feb 20, 2004
    1,187
    Miami
    Full Name:
    Rammer
    That sounds like a TR 30k mile service! I guess this is why I am scared of buying an Fcar. The biggest bill I have ever plunked down for a car has been $1400. You have a right to be mad.
     
  13. sparta49

    sparta49 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Mar 3, 2001
    7,804
    LA
    Full Name:
    Frank
    Took it to get rebuilt we had a hell of a time getting a voltage regulator even the Nippondenso plant in TN wouldn't sell a regulator I finall found a cross reference number in UK but they wouldn't sell to the US so we matched that number up here, it worked for 5 minutes :( I got tired of playing around with it after 2 weeks and just ordered a new one. I know people claim to have had them rebuilt tso there must be a way.
     
  14. sparta49

    sparta49 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Mar 3, 2001
    7,804
    LA
    Full Name:
    Frank
    You're furthering the case I'm pointing out! Don't those types of prices just send you through the roof??? Afer all, it's an ALTERNATOR, not an engine block![/QUOTE]


    But it's platinum isn't it . :) Yes it's rediculus but I didn't buy it because parts were reasonable. I bought it because I wanted it and could afford it . Priced right and reliable never entered into the equation.
     
  15. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,380
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    It's a BOSCH alternator, on mine....

    Magneti Marelli disributors are $800, NOS....so a cap at $300 is about right.
    Reoriginals in Houston has them......avoid the 8 cyl Euro version! Unless you already own one!

    Don't really have much to add.........there's a good reason they sell so many Corvettes! LOL!

    "And just remember, Al.......when you hear a funny noise, you'd better bring it in, 'cuz when I tell you what it's gonna cost, it won't be funny anymore......."

    A certain experienced local Fcar technician, who shall remain nameless.......
     
  16. barcheta

    barcheta F1 Rookie

    Nov 15, 2003
    3,738
    Maryland
    Full Name:
    Jim
    I've gotten to the point that I almost enjoy the challenge of finding parts off ebay and such that Ferrari would have you think were made with platinum or some other sort of precious metal. It is ridiculous that service parts that are interchangable with many different cars (fuel pump comes to mind) are so blatantly expensive.
     
  17. vrlopez

    vrlopez Rookie

    Aug 3, 2004
    14
    San Jose, Ca.
    Full Name:
    Victor
    I have often wondered the same thing parts are parts. I knew what I was getting into so the only person Im upset at is "me". I have a 91 348ts, w/ 33k. Now I'm in the need for the head light switch that's in the colume. I did a search and got only one reply and the price was $856.00 usd. It's a gawd *amn head light switch. I had the 30k done about 400 miles ago and it was about the same price 7k, I had to replace the water pump at a cost of $800.00. So $7800.00 and some change. WTF its is a glorified Fiat!!! I also in need of a rear wheel bearing, what the *uck thats going to cost. All I have to say is
    1991 348ts for sale . . . cheap!
     
  18. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    Sorry, but everytime I walk into my BMW or Mercedes dealer, I'm equally stunned at parts prices. I don't think either the 7 (e38) or "E" (W210) ever cost less than $1000 when they were in for service -- regardless of what was wrong.


    I'm in the damn business, and I can tell you, the margin ISN'T being made at my end of the supply chain.
     
  19. bretm

    bretm F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2001
    4,577
    Northern NJ
    Full Name:
    Bret
    I started losing faith in Ferrari when the local dealer up the price for head gaskets to $450, EACH. Used to be a "reasonable" $220/ea. It blows, you have to search the country to get parts b/c some ******* at FNA decided to do a part number update and reassess prices.

    I just finished rebuilding my jeep's engine, went to the local parts store and picked up a head gasket for ~$40, it's similar to new 308s construction wise (built in o-rings, etc.). Granted it came in a no-frills Felpro cardboard box vs. the hologram covered El-ring packaging. I guess the hologram justifies an 800% markup. And keep in mind the jeep has 6 cylinders vs. the 308s 4/bank, and it only needs one gasket vs. the Fcars 2. I know supply and demand, but WTF?

    I think the only way to enjoy it is just do everything right the first time and then drive it. Working on it will only make you frustrated when dealing with FNA and the dealerships.
     
  20. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,689
    North shore, MA
    Full Name:
    THE Birdman
    When I first got my 308 and was intimidated by working on it myself I took it in to an independent have a tune-up and the clutch done. $4k later the clutch/flywheel was replaced and the car still ran poorly. (In other words, I was raped). I had to learn how to synch carbs so I could make the car run right. I learned right then that the only way I could afford to continue to own a Ferrari would be to learn to service it myself. I bought a lift for my garage and never looked back. Now I'm so nuts that I have two of them and they are only worked on by me. When I search for parts I'm CHEAP and I hunt around! The minute someone says "$300 distributor cap times 2" I say "Electromotive ignition!"

    Birdman
     
  21. Dane

    Dane Formula 3
    Owner

    Apr 25, 2002
    1,512
    Birdman,

    What type of lift did you buy? A link would be great as well. Thanks!

    Dane
     
  22. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,596
    Gates Mills, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Jon
    Maybe, but I've had BMW, Benz and Porsche and the car would have had to have been in dire straits to need a $7K trip to the dealer. And they didn't break particularly often (except the BMW went through power window switches left and right ... than left again - under warranty, thankfully.)

    I can't imagine what's so unique about a 348 alternator that it would cost $800. But I'm not a mechanic by any stretch, so I could be wrong.
     
  23. Rival

    Rival Formula Junior

    May 12, 2005
    399
    Misipi
    Well, I can't say I'm happy that everyone seems to agree with me, but I guess misery DOES, in fact, like a little company.

    Bottom line: is the cost of maintenance worth it? In my case, the jury's still out. Could I have as much "fun" in another car? Well, that depends on how you define the components of fun.
    Performance: MANY, MANY cars have performance that spank this one's.
    Looks: maybe some look as good, but many don't.
    "Shock appeal": Maybe none have the same amount at this cost.
    Prestige: Really, rivaled by few, if any

    Don't get me wrong. I really like this car, and I have real pride of ownership. Let's face it, only an infinitesimal percentage of the population of the world ever gets to own one of these cars.....however, I'm beginning to wonder if there's a reason, other than purchase price, that so many don't? I go back to my original beef: The price of the parts aren't (at least at this point) a financial burden on me. It just simply makes me ANGRY (I mean truly pi$$ed) that parts cost so much, especially when you consider that some of them are parts common to other makes! Many of you have said as much.......think about it: I paid 20 - 25% of the car's value for a tune up! No, not an engine replacement; a TUNE UP!

    I know that driving these cars is one of the best preventative measures; however, when you consider how much something like a broken windshield or a cracked driving light lens would cost (not a life-changing cost, by any means, but CERTAINLY an attitude-changing one!), it just sort of takes the anticipatory fun out of it...........just my follow-up thoughts.......

    (P.S., I think I could create a new die for a rotor cap and plastic cast it myself everytime I needed one cheaper than what they cost from Ferrari! Couldn't we find a mfr. that could recreate these small items a WHOLE lot cheaper than Ferrari? I mean, if you went to, let's say Belkin, and asked them to create a rotor cap for a car. Then you told them they could sell them for $100 each. Once they got through laughing, they'd probably say HECK YES.....This scenario might be a bit exagerated, but I've got to believe there are other avenues for part recreations)
     
  24. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,380
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    You have to get away from the OEM price structure if you can.......thankfully, after rebuilding distributors ONCE they were trouble free.

    Then to make up for the peace and quiet, we bought a SECOND Ferrari! LOL!


    "No, mom, that's not an EXTRA Ferrari, it's a SPARE Ferrari!"

    You gotta really be into the history of the Marque, or it is NOT worth it! IMO.

    I drive for Bandini, Fangio, Alboreto, every time I turn the key. Because I am here to do so......and they, sadly, are not!
     
  25. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
    13,477
    Never home
    Full Name:
    Dr. Dumb Ass
    Or three. ;)

    These car's aren't for everyone. If you're no longer happy with it, sell it.

    I sold my 911 because it was "boring"...
     

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