Young, aspiring pilot....help needed, please

First of all welcome to the flight addicts anonymous section of Fchat we have many people here who will help you with your addiction.

Ok now in all seriousness the biggest thing that I can suggest to you is to go and take an introductory flight or 2 at your local airport to make sure that it is in fact something that you can see yourself doing for a long time. Getting to be a commercial pilot isn't cheap or easy so you gotta make sure you are in it for the long haul. I have known far too many people who get into it all bright and cheery eyed only to realize that this isn't what they expected and they are now out of a considerable amount of money. Secondly if it is something you decide you want to pursue go and see if you can get a medical certificate to fly. (use this website to find the closest Aeromedical examiner http://ame.cami.jccbi.gov/search.asp ). Vision isnt as big of a hot button issue anymore with the advent of all of the technology and so long as your vision can be corrected to 20/20 it usually doesn't matter much. Another thing that I will tell you is FS while it will give you a leg up on some of the basic stuff doesn't mean much of anything in the "real world", I cant tell you how many students I have had that hop in a plane and repeatedly tell me they have done it on flight sim and proceed to do it blatantly wrong or even unsafe. With that being said Flight sim can be a great learning tool if used correctly however I would say about 80-90% of the time it isnt.

With all of the "grounding" and demoralizing information i have given you above let me tell you, If you really want to do this then there really is nothing else for you to do but enroll. I got the bug at a young age and never looked back and to be honest I couldn't be happier. I can think of little else I would rather do for a job.

As for flight schools, well that opens a whole can of worms that have many arguments for many sides. Big picture there are really only 2 types of flight schools (3 if you count military), Part 61 and part 141. Or as I prefer to call them structured and unstructured. Part 61 can be anyone who has a flight instructor certificate giving training. Part 141 is a specific school approved by the FAA for specific flight training.

Part 61
Advantages: Generally more laid back, if you leave one school you can take your hours with you, easier to find/more common(generally).

Disadvantages:Higher hour requirements, more laid back


Part 141
advantages: Structured, lower hour requirements, "all inclusive".

Disadvantages: Usually less common, structured, can not transfer hours between part 141 flight schools.

I personally went through the part 141 training at the University of North Dakota and I loved that style of training. But its not for everyone hence why I listed structured as a positive and negative as well as laid back. Some people (like me) need a structured learning environment that you know whats going to come next where as others work better in a free form environment. The big advantage that I see with 141 is the "all inclusive" aspect of it, typically they will have a ground school, a place to take your written tests, a fleet of aircraft and a pool of instructors, having all of this leads to less down time and more flying time. There are many other advantages and disadvantages that people will debate over that I didnt list because i didnt want to start a B^&h fest over the merits of one school over the other.

If you have any questions at all just shoot me a PM and I will do my best to try and help you out.

Danny

 

There are pro pilots on here that probably have much better advice; I'm posting mostly from the viewpoint of someone who has a PPL and watched a few friends go through early stages.

You can go to an aero oriented school (UND, Emory-Riddle, etc) or get a degree while also getting your license at a flight school. I don't know if the majors require a BS degree, but I suspect it's better to get one. It's another barrier to entry and there are already lots of people who want to do it; so another hurdle/credential-check-item seems like a given.

The licenses are private, commercial and ATP (airline transport pilot, 1500 flight hours required); with ratings like complex, instrument, multi-engine, flight instructor added. The toughest part is building hours on someone else's dime as prop flight hours are expensive, jet sim flight hours are more expensive and jet flight hours are very, very expensive. A lot of young pilots build flight hours by becoming CFI's so they can rack up time training other new pilots. It's a bit of a chicken-egg problem, you need hours to get to ATP and you need jet hours to go regional/major; but no one wants to hire you until you can be productive with a minimum of additional training. It's not an easy career track, with a lot of ways to derail, and the comp isn't getting any better with airline restructuring and air fare price wars.

 

If you want to fast track go with a school that is affiliated with a commuter airline. I am not up on Flight schools but there used to be Comair in Orlando and San Juan (Mesa) in Farmington New Mexico. I know a few pilots that went this route and I was surprised how fast they went from Solo to flying a jet for a Commuter. Hiring is pretty slow now with lots of layoffs at the Major Airlines, but, the business is cyclical and in another few years we will start to see pilots reaching the new mandatory retirement age of 65.

I don't recommend becoming an airline pilot due to the unstable nature of the buisness, but if you really want to do it and it works out, there are few better ways to make a living.

I have been flying professionally for over 20 years and I am still a far cry from that 747 Captain slot. On the other hand, I know several young pilots that got left seat in a 747 early on flying Freight.

Good luck,

Dave

 

What about the military? They are always hiring, they will pay for college, you get paid, you get fed housed and clothed, at the age of 39-40 you could retire with full benefits and fly for an airline, you'll build all the hours you could hope, you get to fly the coolest of aircraft, chicks dig uniforms, you'll learn that your excitement or disappointment in what is a prescribed curriculum is no excuse for success or failure...the job needs to be done.

Words of advice from a 45 year old guy that knew too much for his own good at 19 and didn't join.

Good luck with your decision and path.

 

Kieran- What it really comes down to is you or your parents pay for flight training and hours or somebody else does, and likely nobody else will. If you could not hack school, the discipline required to become a commercial pilot may make for a difficult path to complete. Both college and pilot training require hard work and dedication. Hang in there and hope you make it. There is no easy way to get an ATP rating.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

If you want to fly 747s for a decent airline, you'll need a 4 year degree. If you can swing the cost, going to an Embry Riddle or UND is a pretty good way to go. Keep in mind that you'll spend many years making very little money, so be careful about signing up for big loans to go to one of those places.

The other way to go is to get your private license, and hang around the airport. Do whatever you can-- wash airplanes, line service, answer the phone, make friends with everyone around-- to get some flying in. Get your commercial, instrument, and CFI, and start instructing. Go to college on the side at a local school-- remember, airlines don't care WHERE you went to school or what you studied, just that you got a 4 year degree.

Then, get a job in Alaska (ideally) or somewhere else flying tourists, spotting fish, doing traffic watch, more instructing, etc. Tow banners. Frequently, glider operations need a tow plane pilot (stay away from the sky diving operations, though!).

Network your way into a King Air or a Pilatus, then a Citation... and eventually get on with an airline. Or go to work for a low end regional, like a Colgan.

If you want to know what major airline flying is like, read this blog:

http://flightlevel390.blogspot.com/

 

One more thing-- as was pointed out above, this is actually a great time to be starting out. In the next 5-10 years, there should be considerable demand for airline pilots, and there don't seem to be the new student starts to meet that demand. Airline hiring is cyclical, and you may well end up in a very favorable part of the cycle.

 

What it's in makes no difference whatsoever, so it might as well be something you enjoy.

 

Gotta put in a plug for my alma mater! Although I was a BME major I knew several of the aviation guys and all really liked the program.

Louisiana Tech Professional Aviation Dept: http://www.latech.edu/aviation/

Main site: http://www.latech.edu/

Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Tech_University

Trust me, you WANT to go to college in the South. See Below:
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+ to that. Any degree will open doors. It shows that you have the commitment to do whatever you have to do. I learned that the hard way.

 

Nathan- Great, now I need another blood pressure pill. Went to Clemson for a while, but chased girls in Athens, Spartanburg, and other places. Guess I should have been working further south. Southern girls sound like butter would not melt in their mouths, but it will.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

I went to Texas Tech for a year - then to Arizona. You cannot imagine how the girls in Lubbock spoke. I am a native Houstonian, and the girls in North Texas, have one sweet accent. Both schools are loaded with tons of hotties.


Good luck with your flying career.


Another option to consider, is the National Guard. Perhaps you can find a slot, with a helicopter unit ? You can become a warrant officer. With that, you do not have the problem, of having a full-time career, in the military. I would also mention the ANG, but it will be very competitive, to find any slot to UPT. To be accepted into the ANG flight program, you will need a four year degree.

Perhaps it is a good idea, to consider applying with some of the more remote Army Guard units, for a position. Quite often with remote units, you will have less competition for a slot, from the members of the unit. At a Guard unit in California, it will probably be more difficult to find a position, vs applying with Puerto Rico and or Idaho etc... If you join the unit as an enlisted member, you will have a much better chance being accepted to flight school.

Make sure you can pass a Class One Flight physical.

 

Kieran,


Sounds like you are getting some good advice...here is my 2 cents worth.....

The military may be a good way to go, I know a lot of "pilot slots" have become "drone pilot" slots so not sure if there is any way to get some guarantees because the drone pilot will not help you at all...I know a lot of guys that came up through the reserves so that may not be a bad way to go....

The college degree is very important, the other posters are correct in that it doesn't matter what you get your degree in as far as the airlines are concerned, but I would highly suggest getting a degree in something outside of "professional pilot" so that you have something to fall back on if you get furloughed or just decide that flying is not for you. As far as attending an aviation college, I have flown with a lot of FOs that went to aviation colleges and graduated with over $100,000 of debt and a professional pilot degree, and 99% of them said if they knew then what they know now, they would have done things differently. I am not knocking aviation colleges, but they are very expensive, and the FAA certificates you get there are the same as you will get from your "local" flight school. It's an individual choice and may be the best fit for you, but just understand that it's not necessary.

Make as many friends/connections as you can in this business, you will be amazed at how close-knit and "small world" the aviation community is....the friend you make today may be helping you (or vise-versa) get your dream job tomorrow...Try not to burn any bridges along the way....

This industry has drastically changed since 9/11, pilots (as well as other employees) have taken a giant step back in pay and benefits since then, there is no longer the same predictability as there once was, and the "payoff" isn't near what it used to be...that hopefully will change at some point, if we can get some leaders as the head of these airlines instead of number-crunching managers that use a "one size fits all" style of mis-management that would destroy any company as easily as they are destroying the airlines (sorry, I will get off the soapbox). If you start now you may be positioned well to take advantage of the delayed retirements due to the age 65 rule when you are ready to take the "next step" in the next few years...

One other suggestion before you start down this path, get with an AME and make sure you can hold a first class medical...there are certain things that you can get a waiver or letter of demonstrated ability for if you need it, but if not, I am sorry to say that you may need to find something else to do and just fly for fun.....

FWIW, I went to a local university and earned a degree in marketing and psychology while working full-time. Took out loans for the flying and when I graduated college (couldn't afford to pay for both at the same time) I worked full time and flew full time to earn my ratings....then flight instructed (this is when the learning really begins), p135 charter, p135 cargo, commuter, flew federal prisoners/air ambulance, major airline, furloughed, commuter again, a different major airline that I hope to retire from (and am now lucky enough to be flying 747s around the world)....My point is to tell you that there are many ways to get here, everyone I fly with has a different path, but if you want it bad enough you will find a way to make it happen !! Good luck to you...

 

If you are an EU citizen, that changes things considerably. You will probably have a much easier time getting hired in Europe than in the US, so I would look that way. I don't know what training would be required, but I think with some internet research you could find US flight schools which specialize in such prep. I also don't know if a 4 year degree is as important to a European airline as it is to a US carrier.

At a minimum as you go forward, consider getting a JAA license in addition to your FAA licenses.

 

Embry Riddle and UND are over 6 figures by the time you are done with school. I was accepted at the ERAU and was going to go until my Dad asked how I was going to pay for it. In hindsight, I'm glad I didn't go to a ERAU, UND, or a 141 school. Very regimented and expensive.
Not sure if the parents are going to pay in your case or not, so cost is something to consider. It will always be expensive to learn to fly and go to college, but you can jump some hurdles like getting your multi at the commercial level doing it part 61. Seriously, why get a private multi first to get a commercial multi later, but only after getting a commercial single engine before that. You just spent 10 grand for nothing. 172's are cheaper to rent than a Beech Duchess. Just one example of bad money spent doing 141. At the end of the day, an ATP is an ATP.
If you do it part 61, which is at just about any flight school on any airport, you can go at your own speed and learning style. Being a Westchester kid, you have a ton of flight schools in your part of the world. I got my CFI (flight instructor rating) over there on Long Island at the Farmingdale Airport at Nassau Flyers.
When I graduated college with a CFI, I was in the hole $45K. Took me 9 years to pay off working as pilot through the ranks. CFI wages are very low, and it's very much a pay your dues industry. I saw a bumper sticker once that said my kid and 401K go to Embry Riddle. Funny but true. I was 32 years old before I could consider buying sports cars, and started with a 300GT (Testarossa light I wanted the military, but a 3.0 wouldn't cut it in my time. I really wanted to fly an F-14, grew up in the 80's, Top Gun was cool. Navy wanted me to work on nuclear reactors in submarines. Never went that route, my regret.
Airlines are hit and miss. Southwest seems to be the best thing going, but you will always fly a 737.
I ended up stumbling into private aircraft and working for a guy that owns a Gulfstream decked out in Corsa Rosa red to show his affinity for all the Italian ponies he has in his collection. To be honest, going to different places on a different schedule has been a blast. It's taken me to 4 out of 7 continents, and let me see places I would never have imagined. Now if I can get his 288 GTO or F40 as a bonus one of these years, ha ha.

 

very cool any pictures of the ferrari red plane?
Would love to see that.

 

Why sure, happy to show my magic carpet grabbed a couple of shots before we took off to Montana today. Actually red and white. I can't show the back of the plane with the tail number for the anonymity of the owner, but that color does look good over that much surface.
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I'll grant you, it doesn't compete with hot blonde Louisiana cheerleaders though.

 

Is that a GIII or a GIV?