Since almost all my clients are in Europe, I drive to them in rented cars. Even then I have to be careful with the car selection. This is my experience as an architect with some rentals: MB C class: not successful MB E class: OK, but more often driven by contractors BMW 3 series: OK, but not great BMW 5 series: Better Jaguar XJ: Very good, good taste but seen as expensive. Jaguar S: Very good all around Ford Taurus: Bad Saab 9-5: Acceptable, traditionally an architects car Volvo: Bad Mini Cooper: Very good, creative, alternative, non conformative, good responses. The new architects car. So, for the last half year I have rented Minis from Budget. Black, white, red, creme, yellow. Every month I drive up in a different color, so I get a lot of comments. Rijk
don't think your my landlord to...or you must own houses in The Netherlands but it's funny...why do landlords today buy Ferraris...or...why do I pay so much rent
In the contacting sales world for me, be it a $20,000 project or a multi million $ project it is a bad idea to flaunt ones wealth to that extent,if you are successful in contractor sales than you already know the answer to that.I learned that lesson first hand in the early 90s with my new Vette ,which was less $ than half my labors or customers SUVs.I found that driving a clean pick up or suv is most definitely the ticket for sales meetings or job sites that is.On my own time that is another story I don't apologize for making a lot of $ I just try not to let my ego get in the way of my future.The story changes in our recording studio, our customers look at it as a succesfull company.Yes it is a double standard. If you want to make a ton of $ in contracing you must play the more consevative game,at least it has worked great for me. unless you don't mind loosing out on a lot of projects then by all means tool up to a sales call or pre- constuction meeting in a Ferrari.
I would concur with most who make these kind of decisions on a case by case basis. We have clients who own Four and Five star hotels with whom I would have no qualms about driving the Ferrari to meet. With NEW clients or others who are in a distinctly different financial position I would take the Tahoe, even though as many have pointed out, it cost more than the 308. The same thing extends to dress- First client - Custom Suit, Second client - Khakis and a good shirt. It's all about letting people judge you on your abilities, and not clouding their decision with misperceptions. That being said, I never feel badly about what our firm charges, we are the best. I will talke on a pro-bono project before I would lower our prices. And my last two cents - You are an enthusiast. Note the awesome drive you found in your work vehicle and go back the next weekend in the Fcar!
I'm fascinated by these types of discussions, especially involving 'success symbols,' misconceptions, spite and appreciation. I'm obviously preaching to the choir here, but I've felt the same pressures on some scale: In undergrad I scraped together some cash from scholarships and bought a MB 190 that was in good shape for $3400. Waxed and detailed regularly, everyone thought it was a high-dollar car. I had to deal with a good amount of prejudice about it from people who didn't know me, and even from people who knew me but abhorred the materialism its German quality apparently stood for. People assumed I was from money because I was personally confident, academically aggressive and sported a MB... it was often a shock to reveal the circumstances of my childhood, with multiple divorces and stints on welfare with a single mother of four. Then this summer I scored a job tutoring LSAT that pays an hourly wage that is *sick* (in the good way); I'll make less per hour as a starting attorney. With my wife and I working, I was sparked (possessed) by the idea of getting a carb 308 GTB or a Mondial (option in case baby seats are needed), or even a Porsche 930. Even called Martin about a Mondial. Instead we went with a warranty, AWD and winter safety by getting a new WRX... which still raises eyebrows, as it's more flashy than the typical studentmobile. If it were an Accord of the same price no one would care. I still look at/think about 308's almost daily. But there's the whole pressure about being a student and not being able to have those things. Just the appearance of the "F" word would have large social consequences, as people aren't informed as to the car's value/performance. Then I see people like Casey Slattery (student) here and am like, "Screw it! I can afford it myself and I want it!" Argh. I feel like I've repressed my will to bow to social pressure, preventing me from getting what I want because the general consensus implicitly says I don't deserve things like that yet. At least I'm in law school, so when I finish I can get one and not stress about what people think about an attorney driving a Ferrari.
"I am considering moving into a studio apartment and driving a Pinto...never mind, I guess I'll just have to live with myself achieving a few things..." It's all just more BS to put up with.. You work your ass off to MAKE a good life and buy a few things BECAUSE of your hard work and now you can't enjoy them becasue of other *******s. I didn't choose YOUR life. If you worked as hard as me you'd have one too...Think I work this hard for fun?? It's too bad you can't just be judged for what you are DOING. Who the **** cares what you drive. If you do what you are hired to do then that is what matters. I get SOOOOOOOOOOOO tired of people and all their little emotional issues. A Damb 1 ton Duramax diesel "working man truck" is $50K or more!! You can buy TWO Porsches, Lotus, Ferrari, Corvette and more for less than that!! It's always better to be around the ones who are FOR you and appreciate success for you and themselves and don't "dock" you for it. If a builder came here in a Ferrari sure I would be interested in the price but I would also think if he drives something like that then he must know his ****. Maybe he is loaded and will leave you hanging, but so will many other builders who drive **** cars that can't get to work at all!! (seen that alot) It's all BS and I get tired of it. Everyone thinks they are an expert. How do you know where the money is being spent. Maybe you spend your money on cars. Maybe others on travel, or clother, or appliances, or fancy housing, or gambling...Just that yours is more visable. At least your not hiding anything!! Guy done the street drives a old rusted 6 cyl Ford worth about $400. Complete **** truck...Junk...He owns a restuarant and that is what he drives to work....In his driveway and garage he has 2 NEW Cadillacs and 5 Corvettes!! I say get over it sorry ass!! If your jealous then get off your ass and do something about it so you can have one....People need to set their OWN goals and go after them and quit worrying about trends and what everyone else says and how they feel about this and that. No one cares as much about anyone else as much as they think they do...I say if you're getting the work done right, then that is what matters....Irritates the hell out of me. The only problem I have is with the flambouant look at me in your face attitude jerks....Ferrari is a classy vehicle and I'm glad they are expensive to weed out the dumb****s from getting one. People assume because you drive a $60K Ferrari you are rich, have a $5 billion dollar home and everything else in your life is Ferrari. So ask them this next time? How much is insurance on your new Escalade EXT?? My FERRARI was about $60K and I pay this much..Yours was $65K..What do you pay? <----slips off soap box Never apologize for your success in any area of your life. Enjoy it and be proud of it, but don't be a jerk about it
Spidr, Are we in agreement that nobody should judge you based on your material purchases? The last line of my post was meant to be sarcastic about the apartment and Pinto, after reading your post I'm not sure if we are in total agreement, or if you misunderstood my real meaning. Since I've been in graduate school, I've also started a professional services business, and have taken the preliminary steps to start a small manufacturing business that will hopefully be rolling along when I finish school. Luckily I live about one hour from the University I'm attending, so nobody there knows about my life outside campus. I've considered the jealousy factor with both students and faculty, which is why I drive our old SUV rather than our M-B to campus. As has been said earlier, people expect your lifestyle to be a certain way based on you occupation. Other grad srudents can live off of Ramen noodles and beer if they want to, but I won't. I've already done that in undergrad. With that said, I don't flaunt my lifestyle, but I didn't take a vow of poverty to get a PhD either. My lifestyle really isn't that high, especially compared to others on the board, but relative to my peers it is. I say if you have the means, buy whatever makes you happy, you earned it. Just don't expect most people to understand.
Or, to quote my favorite architect: "Give me the luxuries in life, I'll gladly do without the necessities." Frank Lloyd Wright
Yes we are in agreement. I strongly believe it is important to follow your gut instincs and do what makes you happy rather than adjusting to what "others" want or think things "should" be..I mean, if people are so sure of how others are supposed to spend their money why are they wasting so much time analyzing everyone else instead of "living" the way thay are so sure is right
It doesn't matter. I've lived in China long enough to start to negotiate like a local and Michael Collins has been teaching me about his experiences living in Dubai. When you're on the other side of the table from me, you better make it look like you're loosing money on the bid, or you will be by the time I'm done with you.
I had an Owner stop by my field office the other day and INSIST I start my car for entertainment.....silliest thing you've ever seen...grown men standing around, watching a car idle.......
Actually, not that silly. I've had half the engine design team for the 350Z over at my house to listen to the 365 idle and drinking cold sake. "Ah, Nielsen-san, very nice..."
Unfortunately as for most things, appearance is everything. It does'nt matter if the contractor is a car enthusiast and worked hard and saved for his car, most people will perceve that he charges to much/makes to much profit on his jobs and will go elsewhere. The general public has no idea of what ferraris cost. The guy that shows up in the company parking lot with his 308 will get a lot of grief/comments eventhough it cost less than a lot of other cars, everyone assumes that its very expensive. I used to live in a small town right outside Portland, Maine. There was a local contractor who had a '53 chevy pickup, frame -up restoration, really sharp looking. Dark green with the company name hand painted in gold leaf/black accents on both sidesand varnished mahogany trim in the bed. Cost a lot more than a new pickup, but people did not care or know that it was more expensive, his still got a lot of business. 1) it was a pickup which almost everyone could relate to, 2) it was old and fixed up, there were a lot of old houses in the area, so it gave the impression that he could fix older stuff. 3) it also showed that he had the skill and patience to get a job done right. He did a couple of small jobs for me during my time there. He really did appreciate older autos but he also understood the power of appearance and the importance of that first impression.
Guess, I am weird. I don't care what they think of my cars and I drive them to give quotes often. To me it shows that I am succesful in what I do and I am good at what I do (2 different things in the computer world). If they think I can drive the car because I charge more, well its true, I am more expensive than most of my competition but I don't charge more because of my cars/boat, I charge more because I can. The cars show that and have helped me get some jobs, probably cost me some jobs but I think my fee costs me more clients than the car. As for my day job, I have nicer cars than my boss and a nicer boat than my boss and he makes comments that he pays too much sometimes but he knows I had them before I started to work for him and will have them long after this job is gone so we get along. Currently Ferrari-less but I still have a few cars that grab attention, trying going out and giving a quote to someone in a 1934 1 1/2Litre Singer and the next day in a Dino, that will get their attention.
While I wouldn't drive my Lambo to meet a new client, some of my established clients expressly ask me to "bring the new toy". They are people who like my work and like cars too. Life is too short to have something nice and not use it whenever you can.
Most of you have forgotten that you get what you pay for. I have a 95 355 and a 98 Viper GTS modded. I was caught one night at the ole Outback in my 355 and the guy never mentioned it. A few nights ago I was heading out to get gas in my GTS and got a call from a Dr. that I am about to start a home for. I was about a block away from the Architects office and the Doc was heading to Henderson NV to play some golf. I stop by, grab his plans and call and tell him I'm swinging by his condo. The Doc says I'll be sitting on the deck having a drink and I'll keep an eye out for your truck. I say, "I'm not driving my truck, I'm in a red Viper." Silence. I pull up and he comes out to get the plans and says "I must be in the wrong line of work." I tell him that the Vipers are a really good deal right now and leave it at that. This comment coming from a guy with 5 kids and building a 1.2 mil home. Someone on this thread said something like, you think it's expensive to have a professional do it, then see how much it costs to have an amateur do it. Shoot, I could probably pick up a nice Testarossa for what I paid for my F-350 crew cab power stroke.
Although this doesnt have to do specificly with a contractor driving a nice car, it is about the same problem. I love cars....I plan on owning several exotics (okay...in a few years...i'm 16, gimme 10 years before i start posting about the XJ220 in the garage ;-) ), and I hope that I will find myself in a career that doesnt tell me what i have to drive. But anyway, right now i drive my dads previous car.... a 97 Cadillac Catera..... Its a cool looking car i guess, but mechanically they are AWFUL. If I were to sell the car to a dealership, right now i'd be lucky to see 1,700 for the car. If I sell it private party, the KBB value is just under 5,000 bucks, but I'd be happy getting 4000 for it. Lets call it a 4,500 dollar car (but when it was "handed over to me", it didnt run....I had to fix it and put hours of work into it to get it running again. My "closer" friends all think its a POS....dunno if its just cause they happen to drive old Grand Am's or their parents cars or what, or maybe they really know that the Catera is an AWFUL car....but if I show up and anyone who knows me but just as "the kid with the chevy racing hat" see's the car, all I hear is "woah" and "Your parents must be rich" or "What do your parents drive?".....Okay, so my dad makes a comfortable amount of money....i'm sure its ALOT less than most of you, but probably more than some of you....doesnt really matter....we eat, drink, sleep in a nice house, have cable TV, go to the movies, eat out....and to some people, yes....my parents are rich.....but i know what other people make, and 150k/year isnt all that much. What do I say to the people who ask that question? Nothing. As for the second question, I simply say "a minivan and an infinity".... Sorta gets annoying though, cause everyone see's the cadillac logo and immediatly thinks the car costs a fortune. Well, 4,500 or even 5,000 bucks isnt that much, concidering you paid 6k for that Explorer or 5k for that Integra....its not even my car! Sorta tough driving that car, so i'm trying to sell that and get something else. Looking for an 82-92 Camaro, hopefully gonna end up with 300 or so RWHP and a 6 speed for fun Then, I'll have a car with more money into it than the caddy is worth, and I'll be labled "redneck". Oh well Anyway, sometimes i'll be with my mom and we'll see some young kid (16-18) getting out of a BMW 318 or 325, and my mom will make comments about how she doesnt understand how people can afford cars like that at a young age....I have to try and explain to her that just cause its a BMW doesnt mean its expensive....same with Mercede's, Porsche 944's, Lexus, etc. Same with Vipers and Ferrari's and Porsche's....she is always saying how those people must be in debt big time and stuff.....and thats just with 308's, 348's, Testarossa's.....lol ooooohhhh well.......
I think the deal here is that contracting work is very price sensitive for the buyer, almost the opposite of legal and medical care: where anyone with any sense gets the best of these they can afford. It might also be said that generally, people don't recognize the difference between good contracting work and bad in the same way they might notice being treated by a good doctor or a bad doctor (although even this might be manner instead of skill). They just see the dollars going out more than the benefit coming in.
First impressions are what count. Usually these are made in just an instant as well. Made in less time than the time it takes to read each post here defending why you can drive a Ferrari to a clients house. I keep my $<30k Mondial at home.
I would advise him to leave it at home if he wanted to work for me or a client of mine. And, I would never drive a Ferrari to a meeting with a client unless it was a close friend who shared my automotive interests. I would not drive it to a job site under any circumstances. In my memory the clients who showed up on their job site or at a meeting in an expensive sports car were the biggest strutting pricks.
