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Your Ideal Fearri

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by boxerman, Oct 20, 2016.

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  1. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    #1 boxerman, Oct 20, 2016
    Seems a lot of talk on this site about various uses and types of of ferraris, track street show, paddle stick Na etc.

    If ferrari were designing a new car, or a car from existing componants, what would be your ideal. What charactreristics would compel you to buy a new one in the $250-350K range. What sia car you would buy and buy to keep for a lifetime of use.

    I'll start with my ideal.
    In the 21st century to fully expolit any modern fast car you mostly need to go to the track, so it has to be truly track capable. Many a modern can turn some really spectacular laptimes for 2 or 3 laps before they wilt.

    Many a modern is also pretty bland at street speeds because they are so filtered for confort or filetred at lower speeds in the pursuit of ultimate speed..

    There are two or 3 cars based of existing componants that I would feel compelled to buy if ferrari built them.

    (1) In the 200-250K range something based of a 4c tub or similar, Ferrai styling, sporting the masser or Alfa TTV6(designed by ferrari). A car with great suspension, in the 2500-2800lbs range and idealy no eps.
    While I woudl prefer a stick option thats not critical. What is important is that such a car is extensively track tested by ferrari not just for laptimes but for durability and use on track. Steel or carbon brakes as options, wheel sizes optimesed for available slick tires, and a great R compound tire for street use. 2 way adjustable suspension and like the viper acr a book listing suspesion setups for various tracks. If need be call it a Dino since its V6. there can also be a lux version for those more street biased.

    (2) A 488 super light. Somehtign minimalist but diffrent to what they did or will do with the next speciale. A turbo motor with all that Tq will work great with a stick, and that loses some weight and adds simplicity and engagement. We can scrap a lot of the electronics, suspesion can be manualy adjustable, spartan inetrior scrap active aero and put a wing on it as need be, steering can even be manual.
    Slashes vents etc can be removable for track use, but radiator and cirtical componats properly enginered and protected foir extesive track use. Kinda like where viper went with the acr, maybe more street able though.
    In other words the 288/F40 reincarnate in a modern "affordable" package. To keep price reasonable one can have a minimum of CF flourish if any. Yes it will be slower than the 488 speciale which will still be the pincale. Its an additional product of an existing platform for the core, and still street legal.

    Lastly maybe somethign that looks like a 458, which was a seminal shape, sporting a NA V12. ie soemthign between a 488 and a Laf but mid engined unlike a F12.


    Lastly, cars 1 and 2 we know would be etreme and a somewhat limted market(though porche sold 2500 Gt4s and all 999 911Rs) but its not that limited. Since these are all based off existign platforms development shouldnt be too onerous.

    The type of owner attracted would as always intialy be collectors, but these acre cars to be driven and used hard(excpet maybe 3) so make them in sufficeint numbers that we are moving past the flipping collecting game, and those who really want to buy and use them, can buy new. Or sell them similar to what ford did witht he new Gt, sell them to peopel with a prvable recorsd of keeping not flipping cars, and peopel who have the inclination and ability to take them tot he track on occasion.

    I'm not talkign about race cars here. Just superlative DE event cars, and cars thta are fun to drive on a sunday blast. The type of car that can last and entertain for years or decades as SWB's 288's F40's Mclaren f1s did.

    None of this need impact negatively ferraris existing buisness model, its additional sales to a client base who is unlikely to flip and erode used prices, but a client base likely to get the cars out on road or at DE events where great enetrtainment is to be had, and brand kudos built and maintained.

    Thats my wish list, not to say I am right, but I thinkw e see soem otehr mnaufactuers having unexpected sucess with this type of formula and a great way to sell more cars.
    Seems like a number of us have a strong hankering for such a ferrari, and some opposed to the idea or say the time has past never to return.
     
  2. flat_plane_eddie

    flat_plane_eddie F1 Rookie
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    #2 flat_plane_eddie, Oct 20, 2016
    I've always secretly hoped that Lancia would release a new Stratos and base it on the 4C with the Maserati V6 stuffed in there.

    As to the ideal "new" Ferrari, 458 with F12 engine would probably be it for me. As much as I would want a stick it's just not feasible with that engine.

    Overall though, my ideal Ferrari is still an F50...so I'll keep dreaming.
     
  3. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    #3 boxerman, Oct 20, 2016
    I really like that stratos idea. More feasible and more correct than the dude who went so far as as to shorten and rebody a few scuds.
     
  4. skierlawyer

    skierlawyer Formula Junior

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    #4 skierlawyer, Oct 20, 2016
    I agree a 458 with an F12 engine would be awesome!
     
  5. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    #5 INTMD8, Oct 20, 2016
    Honestly, I'm happy to be stuck in the past as what I want could/would not be built today.

    (the list of what I don't want would pretty much make it an impossibility).
     
  6. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #6 AceMaster, Oct 20, 2016
    That is scary
     
  7. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #7 tomc, Oct 20, 2016
    Nice idea! If we're dreaming big - a hard top convertible V12 Ferrari that wasn't a limited edition. F1 transmission. Rear wheel steering. AWD. Useable back seats. And, colored carbon fiber out the wazoo!
    T
     
  8. JimEakin

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    #8 JimEakin, Oct 20, 2016
    Very lightweight mid engine with smaller displacement V12. The size of the V12s now are huge.
     
  9. Aedo

    Aedo F1 Rookie

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    #9 Aedo, Oct 20, 2016
    Exactly this :)
     
  10. 95spiderman

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    #10 95spiderman, Oct 20, 2016
    Im happy with 458 as is but one with a v12 would be perfection
     
  11. Mitch Alsup

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    #11 Mitch Alsup, Oct 20, 2016
    In the $150K area (yes I know Ferrari won't do this one)--a modern longitudinally mounted mid-engined 3.0 liter, 400 HP V8, manual only, 2600 pounds, no electronic nannies--a modern F355

    In the 250K area -- a longitudinally mounted mid-engined 4.0 liter, V10 F1 only, 530 HP, 2900 pound, minimal electronic nannies--a superlight 458.

    In the $350K area--a longitudinally mounted mid-engined 5.0 liter F1 only 700 HP V12, 3600 pound, electronic everything--a consumer's LaFerrari.

    Notice I did nod specify turbo or not.
     
  12. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
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    #12 Caeruleus11, Oct 20, 2016
    Answer me why the Alfa 4C isn't really selling.

    The reality is the market place has moved on and that is why they make what they make.
     
  13. vvassallo

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    #13 vvassallo, Oct 20, 2016
    A V-8 powered ALfa 4C (call it a 4C-8) would do me fine. Manual only, no computer gizmos. Comfortable but not luxurious. A sports cars, fairly stripped but not uncomfortable. Not a track only toy and with more luggage space for a weekend trip with your wife - yes, she can take her clothes.
     
  14. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    #14 F2003-GA, Oct 20, 2016
    488 with a F12 TDf engine :D
     
  15. ///Mike

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    #15 ///Mike, Oct 20, 2016
    #1: 3200 lbs or less, a mid-mounted naturally aspirated cable-throttle engine making at least 450 hp and decent torque; gated shifter; easily repairable chassis (that almost certainly means steel, hence the high weight limit); engine, oil, and transaxle cooling sufficient for hour long 10/10ths track sessions in 100+F temps; iron brakes that will handle the same conditions and air conditioning that will keep the occupants cold in the same heat. Integrated high speed rollover protection. Highly adjustable suspension, direct-coupled unboosted steering above 20 mph. Race capable ABS and track capable ASR that is easily defeatable. Striking styling that recalls the glory days of Ferrari and as small as possible.

    #2: Mid-engine 12 cylinder GT car along the lines of the Boxer/TR, again naturally aspirated with robust cooling and brakes. At least 600hp, NO electric motors/KERS, etc. Sufficient front trunk space to accommodate luggage for a long weekend for two. Great AC and sound system. Option of dual clutch or manual gearbox. 4k lbs or less. Striking styling that recalls the glory days of Ferrari.
     
  16. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

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    #16 ///Mike, Oct 20, 2016
    Sounds awesome! But it needs to look better than the current car.
     
  17. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    #17 boxerman, Oct 20, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2016
    Crappy motor, sounds like a fart low power for 2500lbs dry car, not light for what it is, sub par handling, not really inspirational(except mcf tub and styling) in any performance parameter, uncomfortable on street and not great on track.

    A miata sells great because they got the balance of comfort and feel right. Probably if the Fiata had the 4c motor it would outperform the 4c.

    4C is half baked in the classic Alfa tradition.

    And yes there is a minimal market for such a low power minimalist car. There was not a minimal market for the even more minimalist F40 relatively speaking.

    How many 4cs have sold, that woudl be good sales numbers for ferrari and a ferrar 8c would be a seminal performance car.

    Youyre right though the game has moved on, and its moving again. Just as race cars split from road cars late 60s, road sprotscars are splitting into ever more capable Gt type cars, and also ever more viceral if slightly slower drivers cars that can hunt. They are usualy built off the same platform.
     
  18. flat_plane_eddie

    flat_plane_eddie F1 Rookie
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    #18 flat_plane_eddie, Oct 20, 2016
    I'm going to have to disagree with you there a bit. Yes, it does sound like a fart. However, the car is definitely quick. It accelerates to 60 about as fast as a 360 does. I've driven one and you don't expect it to be as quick as it is because of the low numbers. With a bit of chip tuning you can get it up to around 300 horsepower and that's pretty damn fast (high 3s 0-60 times). I find the most fun to be from 10-100 miles per hour. All these big horsepower cars are fun but you're just a few seconds away from jail if a cop catches you.

    As far as the handling, I haven't heard any complaints about it. I drove one on pretty bad roads and it took them pretty well but I do have a higher tolerance. I might also be biased a bit because I'd like to buy one next year and yes the trunk is fairly useless too but I like it because it's a sports car.

    And there aren't many new sports cars for sale nowadays...
     
  19. I'm 360 Canuck

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    #19 I'm 360 Canuck, Oct 20, 2016
    An Enzo with a DCT, GPS, AWD, machine guns, oil slick button, rotating license plate, anti radar detection technology and submarine capabilities.
     
  20. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #20 PhilNotHill, Oct 20, 2016
    A rear mid-engine V12 hard top spider. :)
     
  21. F2003-GA

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    #21 F2003-GA, Oct 21, 2016
    They already make the ideal Ferrari But it's unreachable - LaFerrari Aperta :(
     
  22. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    #22 Bas, Oct 21, 2016
    Good question.

    Definitely one of them is a 550 Maranello ''GTO'', with influences from the 599 GTO and 360 Trev's 360 ''Challenge'' with many ultra lightweight bits. More aggressive styling (but nothing spastic), individual throttle bodies, 6-1 exhaust for the GTO noise, bored and stroked to 6 liters, higher compression, more aggressive cams. Centerlock wheels, gen 3 carbon ceramics, a LOT of carbon, race spec carbon doors and open them with a linnen cord much like the F40 and race cars. 575 dashboard (makes it much more modern), actual racing seats, interior in black alcantara with red stitching. Rosso Scuderia exterior, wheels in grey, flat black and bronze (so I can change depending on my mood :D).

    650+ hp, <1400kg, manual gearbox, GTO esque engine noise. Yeah. It'll be fun.

    Others:

    Challenge Stradale with Scuderia gearbox hardware/software and Speciale brakes.

    F50 with 6-1 exhaust

    F40

    FF
     
  23. Mitch Alsup

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    #23 Mitch Alsup, Oct 21, 2016
    Perhaps because it is ugly.
     
  24. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    #24 boxerman, Oct 21, 2016

    All great stuff. But if it were a car built from existing in production componants, say a 300k car what would be your spec.?


    Since we are fantasizing about prior production items, mine would be a BB bodyshell with everyhtign that opens and closes, ie door clams in kevlar. Stripped interior, nomex windows. Aluminum floorpan bonded to frame for stiffness, as well as a cage. weight down as low as possible maybe 2600-2700lbs

    512M engine runnign throttle bodies and a lightened flywheel(a relaible 500 hp on pump gas), Tr gearbox with Newman diff carrier and strengthened quill shaft(eliminating period gearbox issues) and shorter ratios. Drilled suspension pieces, quick steering ratio and really good modern brakes with penske or ohlin DA shocks. The wing from a early 70s F1 car to round it out. Ie my ideal big bruiser track machine, or the poor mans F40 Lm.

    Have the motor, now I need the rest.

    But if one were buying a new car from the factory made from existing in production componants from the FCA empire whats the ideal spec.
     
  25. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #25 TheMayor, Oct 21, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016
    I own one and more people say it's beautiful than any Ferrari I've owned.

    The 4c isn't selling because it's an Alfa. If it had a Ferrari badge on the side and was less hard core would be the best selling F car ever.

    Marketing means everything.

    Ferrari's now are just fancy GT's and a few "special" cars for "special" customers to parade around at 30 mph. It's tie to racing is long gone. Steve McQueen has been replaced with Kim Kardasian.

    The 4c is an honest sports car. Unfortunately it's too honest for today's tastes and needs. People now want plush leather seats, stereo systems that sound like your living room, and enough electronic gadgets to make the Apollo Moon mission jealous. Hell, they are even willing to have fake sounds pumped in through their stereo today.

    People have changed. They say they want a sports car but really, they want an Italian Lexus.

    How would I make the 4c better? I'd put in a normally aspirated V6 with 300 HP and a 6 speed manual. It might be heavier but I think it would make it the perfect modern version of a 70's-80's sports car.
     
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