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Your Plans for Ethanol in your Vintage Ferrari.

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by UroTrash, Apr 26, 2006.

  1. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    Thanks Mr. G., we have seen the pumps here labeled "10%" recently, but who knows how long it's been a component!

    I gassed up last weekend and it was hard to tell if the fresh fuel or disuse of the vehicle was the culprit. Ran rough for awhile but seemed to clear out eventually.

    If I had made Franco's run I'm sure it would have been EVEN better! LOL!
     
  2. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    Question: Have a Euro 308GTS with no cats. How bad is the 10% blend and would mixing xx% of race fuel help? i realize boosting octane is not a Magic Pill, just wondering if going with xx% race fuel mix with pump Supreme would be good. Thx.
     
  3. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    Steven

    I'm runnning my tank down to about half this weekend, then I'm gonna pop in some Sunoco 100 octane pump gas to see if my troubles go away.

    Gimme a few days, I'll let you know what happens.

    Dave
     
  4. donv

    donv F1 World Champ
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    I've been running the 10% blend we have here in my carb 512BB with no problems. I can't imagine your car would be all that different. 365 2+2 as well.
     
  5. Bob Zambelli

    Bob Zambelli F1 Rookie
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    As I previously stated, my aircraft is certified to run on autofuel. There were recent bulletins PROHIBITING the use of any gasoline containing ethanol.

    Although I have never experienced problems in my cars, I wonder if the problems that might result from using it in airplane engines could manifest themselves in older cars????????????????????

    I am fortunate that there are gas stations near me that sell fuel without ethanol.

    Also, there is a very simple test to detect the quantity of alcohol in gasoline. If anyone is interested, I will publish a link.

    Bob Z.
     
  6. Bob Zambelli

    Bob Zambelli F1 Rookie
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  7. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
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    Dave,

    Try Avgas.

    Art S.
     
  8. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    Dec 21, 2000
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    FYI:

    Pierce Manifolds Weber tuning manual suggests the following mods when running certain blends of alcohol-based fuel:

    "-Mixture of 60% methyl alcohol, 20% gasoline and 20% benzene, increase jets and needle valve by about 15%

    -Mixture of 94% methyl alcohol, 6% acetone and trace amounts of oil (by volume), increase jets and needle valve by about 45%"

    Now, that is for methyl alcohol, but since what is now in circulation is ethanol, I don't know if it has the same calorific value as methyl alcohol and therefore, percentage increases for jet/needle sizes maybe slightly more or less. The other key components in the fuel system that will also be affected will be fuel hoses and accelerator pump diaphrams.

    In any case, it looks possible to run a vintage Ferrari on high-level ethanol fuels.
     
  9. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    Thx Dave.
     
  10. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    Art.

    So I drive to my nearest private airport, pull up to the pump and say, "Fill 'er up?"
     
  11. Ferrarinw2

    Ferrarinw2 Five Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 7, 2006
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    Yep their pushing it hard here same concerns about fuel lines and carbs.Some say it depends on the % that is added.
     
  12. donv

    donv F1 World Champ
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    Not unless you have a buddy working there. It's not legal for them to sell avgas for automotive (or any non-aviation) use.

    EDIT: Although, you might be able to find a small airport in your area with self service pumps. Then you'd be home free, I think.

     
  13. JCR

    JCR F1 Veteran
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    The current AvGas 100 LL has about 2 grams TEL per gallon. AvGas 100/130 had about double the amount TEL. But the old 100/130 is virtually extinct due to EPA regs. Late 1960s high octane "muscle car" pump gasoline had up to 3.5 grams TEL per gallon. The old high octane pump gasoline which was sold as 103 RON octane was actually 98-99 (R+M)/2. BTW, AvGas 100 LL is actually 98-99 (R+M)/2. Aviation fuels use different ASTM standards (octane rating) than street gasolines.

    These cars never needed the really high octane like L-88 Corvettes that had 11:1 compression or Boss Mustangs and CobraJets at 10.5:1.

    I would use 93 octane not the 87 regular. And if not AvGas you can purchase racing fuel in various octanes of leaded and unleaded in 5, 10, 55 gallon drums. Rockett Brand, VP Fuels, Sunoco, Elf, etc. Just cut AvGas or racing fuel with street gas. The main problem with AvGas is that it is a federal crime to use it in street cars with a fine up to $20,000. That also applies to leaded race gasoline on the street.
     
  14. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Three Time F1 World Champ
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    I'm waking this thread up because I understand that in their great wisdom (and even greater technical knowledge...and corruption) our political "leaders" are going to mandate even higher ethanol content in pump gasoline. Leaving aside the unintended economic consequences (e.g. higher food prices), what steps can be taken to protect our old Ferraris and other old cars from the negative effects of ethanol in their fuel systems? Have there been any counter-ethanol advances in technology since this thread was last visited nearly four years ago? Have any owners here made modifications to their older Ferrari fuel systems to cope with this?

    Thanks.

    Jack.
     
  15. cdu

    cdu Karting

    May 30, 2007
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    One of the big advantages of AVgas besides the lead is the fact that it is required to be stable in storage for a really long time.

    If you mix AVgas and normal gas, you'll get a bit of extra lead and slightly higher octane, but you'll still have a tank of gas that turns to goo after 6 months. If it were 100% AVgas, you could leave it the tank for a really long time and really only have to worry about condensation getting into the gas, not that the gas itself will turn into goo.
     
  16. JCR

    JCR F1 Veteran
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    Fixing my mistake above. AvGas 100 LL would be 99.5 MON. So AvGas 100 LL would be about 104 (R+M)/2 as we measure pump fuel in the USA.
     
  17. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dave Helms is selling fuel line kits, like marine grade stuff or better.....
     
  18. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Thanks, Alan. How can I contact Dave?

    Jack
     
  19. ersatzS2

    ersatzS2 Formula Junior
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    #44 ersatzS2, Nov 29, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2010
    just searched 'ethanol' and thought I'd revive this thread to share any updates. When the fuel pump on my `50 Willys quit, the rebuild shop told me it was yet another victim of ethanol in the fuel, they are swamped with vintage cars with rotted diaphragms. This has made me worry about not only the pump on the GTC, but also the myriad downstream jets.
    Then, while enjoying a rare day a the track in my 993 cup car, it suddenly developed a bad miss. Several hours of dis assembly later, the answer came back: alcohol in the fuel (the cup car uses pump gas) caused the fuel cell foam to degrade, which caused both fuel pumps to clog and seize up.

    ethanol is of the devil.

    Just read a great book on energy policy, "Power Hungry; The Myths of Green Energy" By Robt Bryce. One of his concluding prescriptions for reforming energy policy is to revise the dates for presidential primaries and caucuses. Say what? His point is that removing the significance of the Iowa primary would remove the undo influence the Iowa Corn Lobby wields over both parties...
     
  20. lancia

    lancia Formula Junior

    Jan 18, 2004
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    Bryce book is excellent, recommended
     

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