Z06 v ACR (MT video, 23:00)

I love the fact that dilettantes won't like the subjective stuff about the Extreme.

 

Extreme aero in outple would be a great way to blow 130k!

 

I have that exact car inbound now...

 

Sounds, looks, feel are all subjective. What isn't subjective are the actual performance numbers. ACR clearly dominates.

How much of the value of something (Porsche, Ferrari..whatever) is due to the brand? How much less would a modern Ferrari be if it had a Dodge badge?

Of course the cars are not on the same level in terms of overall build quality. I have a 458 Spider and just bought an ACR. I don't expect the ACR to have the fit and finish of the Ferrari. However, is the Ferrari really worth almost 3 times as much? (My 458 was $325k new).

When you go into the Porsche world its even more confusing. I have owned many GT Porsches. Loved them all. One buys a GT3 or GT3 RS because of its usability on the track. At least that is how Porsche markets the cars. All the PR for a GT Porsche is the car on a track. Now that a DODGE is on par (track wise) with even a Porsche 918 what does this to the Porsche value proposition? Is a Porsche really that much better vs the ACR..is a RS really worth $300-350k when its slower vs an ACR?

High end brands have become about their brand image and less about the product. I imagine that technology will soon level the playing field such that the difference in 0-60 from one 'sports car' to another will be almost nothing. One will choose Car A over Car B because of the brand image..

 

Issue with acr might be its potential future value. This is last of the breed and current best of best, all in very limited production. Why shouldn't this appreciate like a 60s cobra? Will a hard life on track hurt future value? I know owners will say things like, I bought it to drive it, etc but still a cobra was $5k new and into the millions now

issue with vipers in general is poor visibility, hot transmission tunnel, scalding side pipes, awkward driving position, bad engine sound, etc. These things might not matter on track when performance is race car like but they are huge problems on street drives. So if viper is your only sports car its very compromised. But if viper is just your track car, then its right on target

 

The characteristics of the ACR (being an A to A car/ track car vs an A to B car) apply to other modern cars that have proven to be collectible.

360 CS
RS Porsches
Scud

Long term the hard core versions seem to be the most valuable. What is interesting to me is that many of the cars that are now collectible were hard sellers when new. FordGT, Porsche Carrera GT, Scuderias, Alfa 8c (etc) ...were not home runs for the dealers and yet they are now highly sought after.

 

Single minded cars never popular when new. Then take off years later when collectors become interested

 

What other cars that are single minded do you suspect will be collectible going forward...maybe the Z28...Alfa 4c...others?

 

I predict you will find the Prefix paint substantially better than your Ferrari or any other car you have owned. Had you ordered, you would have been sent photos of your car panels in paint and I have heard that Prefix is Pebble Beach quality.

 

You rebel.

 

Without a cause!

 

maybe Shelby 350r. ford gt definitely
alfa not enough performance with eco car turbo 4. maybe if put in a 6 cyl
z06 not crazy enough and too many made.
acr e is the one

 

Are there any aftermarket exhausts that allow a viper to sound more engaging than a farting vacum cleaner. The BMW V12 and carrera Gt sounded great, as I am sure the LFA dies, so why not the viper/

 

Because the Viper's V10 utilizes the 90 degree architecture carried over from Chrysler's V8's. Viper's have been around for over 20 years now, with every exhaust configuration imaginable, with limited success in the sound dept. I have to admit the heads/cam car posted above sounds better, though it will never have the deep rumble you would expect from a car with so much displacement.

 

I should do a video of my 2001 GTS, it does sound pretty good. A primary issue is that the 90 deg crank throws require 2 cylinders on each side to fire simultaneously, i.e. with 5 cylinders a side and one firing every 90 deg, two have to be in phase.

 

In the land of IFs, as in if I were king Sergio then would add another two cylinders and watch viper sales take off, or figure out how to trim the height of the hellcat motor enough to make it fit..

 

Team Corvette experimented with this idea 25 years ago.

Corvette Oddball! Did GM ever explore more than 8 cylinders for Corvette?

 

I remember that car. the Ryan falconer engines are amazing, and well suited to a vette as they started architecture wise wise as a 350SBC's with 4 extra cylinders.

If I remember correctly the Chrysler V10 was their 360 with two extra cylinders, the idea being that they could use the same tooling to make the V10 for a truck instead of resurecting a big block.

Along the way lamborghini re-engineered it for viper duty or so the story goes.

There was also a viper derived Ilmor V10 marine engine, not sure how that worked out.

If the V10 is a V8 with two cylinders added, in this day of cad cam, cnc and billett engine blocks, seems like they could reasonably do a v12 for the viper. It would be a really unique engine like a chryco derived ryan falconer. The viper would sound great, maybe be a little more powerful and something truly unique powerplant wise, a big bore pushrod V12, it would probably add excitement and sales to the viper, and move it away from comparsion to a vette to be more like a true exotic, bringing in sales. I guess with such low sales numbers mow there is no will to spend more $$$ to try save the viper.

Any idea what ACR orders look like, did it cause a jump?

 

If we are fantasizing here, it would be far better to start with the Chrysler Hemi V8 rather than the old 360 that the Viper was based on.

It's already been done to a Chevy LS motor.........

V12 LS1 Build - LS1TECH

 

+1

 

the paint on my 16 ACR is the best I have ever seen...miles better vs my 458 and Porsches. Its almost too nice.