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Zandvoort corner banking to be twice as steep as Indianapolis

Discussion in 'F1' started by mcimino, Nov 24, 2019.

  1. DGS

    DGS Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #26 DGS, Nov 25, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
    Didn't the old cars bottom out on the Monza banking?

    (At least, according to the "Grand Prix" (1966) script. ;))


    I think most paved streets have at least a 2 degree slope from edge to crown, for drainage.
    (According to quick research on residential streets.)
     
  2. cmos

    cmos Formula Junior

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  3. lorenzobandini

    lorenzobandini F1 Rookie
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    You're a real riot c-mos....pow, zoom, to the moon..... :p

    :)
     
  4. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/147355/pirelli-can-only-up-pressures-to-cope-with-zandvoort

    Pirelli says it will have no choice but to increase its tyre pressures for Formula 1's Dutch Grand Prix in 2020 to cope with Zandvoort's 18-degree banked final corner.

    As part of a revamp required to bring the venue up to the standards of other contemporary F1 circuits, Zandvoort's final turn is being reconstructed and will feature a 32% incline - with more than four metres of height difference between the top of the track and the bottom.

    The steepness of the banking will be twice that of turns at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, which caused problems for Michelin-shod cars in 2005 and ultimately forced all 14 of those runners to withdraw from that year's US Grand Prix.

    Pirelli's head of car racing Mario Isola said his company knows the challenges the banked corner will present, but added there was a limit to what it could do to mitigate the risk of problems because a different tyre specification cannot be designed specifically for the Dutch GP.

    "The only thing we can do is to react with the pressure, and we will have to increase the starting pressure," said Isola.

    "If you look at the regulation we are obliged to stay on the same construction and same specification for the whole year, so we cannot design a tyre for the banking and we cannot design a specific construction, for Zandvoort.

    "So the only possibility is to try to manage the prescriptions in terms of camber and pressure."
     
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  5. lorenzobandini

    lorenzobandini F1 Rookie
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    #30 lorenzobandini, Nov 26, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
    OMG! Oh no!! Whatever shall we do???!!!

    As it should be. 'Same for everybody.

    Dem's the cards you're dealt....play your hand.

    That's REAL racin'. No p***y-footing around. Do what you hafta do and come what may.

    You set up too fast? Maybe you break and lose.

    Not fast enuff? You lose.

    Get it right? You're a winner.

    REAL auto racing, where there is not "parity". You earn you're way. ;)

    How many remember having to set up for https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-ab&sxsrf=ACYBGNSlKGWp3J8xJ760gRxfHSZaOe6g9w:1574800775281&ei=h43dXeDREM61tgX4rLAo&q=formula+one+cars+jumping+at+nurburgring&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwigsbWG3ojmAhXOmq0KHXgWDAUQsAR6BAgEEAE&biw=1670&bih=915#spf=1574800824131
    instead of just for billiard tables like we HAVE TO HAVE (regulations limiting gradient delta) today?
    Most recent...the crying about the ripples at CoTA. Waaaahhhh!!!
    'May as well watch go-karts with the amount of suspension travel we see these days.
     
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  6. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Anything that creates more super-exciting “tyre management” and/or pits stops is okidoki with me. That’s what we want, right, old chaps?
     
  7. Kiwi Nick

    Kiwi Nick Formula 3

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    Dear Mario Isola, all Pirelli has to do is design a tire that will withstand the most extreme conditions that it will encounter during the year and use it for the full season. I'm sure that the current tires are over-engineered for some circuits, but more than equal to the highest loads currently seen on other circuits. Surely Eau Rouge stresses tires more than other turns and the current tires are designed to handle that load. So, just figure out what loads the Dutch circuit will dish out and design accordingly.
     
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  8. lorenzobandini

    lorenzobandini F1 Rookie
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    Now you're talking. Image Unavailable, Please Login

    One step further. Three tires...slick, mediums, and rains. The slicks, hard enough to go the distance. What the heck, the other two also in their appropriate conditions. No BS mandatory changes. Everybody has the same problem....any circuit, any conditions.....get from lights out to checkered first.

    Real racing.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  9. mcimino

    mcimino Formula 3
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    That would be nice... tired of this "tire management" during a race. "Managing the pace to conserve tires" Even managing fuel consumption is ridiculous...it's all BS, taking away from the sport.
     
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  10. lorenzobandini

    lorenzobandini F1 Rookie
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    My, my. "Sport" you say...? Didn't you get the memo?
    It's not sport any longer...it's a show...oooopppsss..."real racing"....the masses want now. Yup, that "real (aka well orchestrated so it's soooo exciting :rolleyes:) racing" that a real sport (yeah, the real thing, not the show) isn't.
    Isn't that banking gonna be soooo exciting......whooop dee flooping doo.....NASCAR here we come. :(
     
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  11. cmos

    cmos Formula Junior

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    Pretty bad, I know. My apologies - I should have approached it from a different angle...:rolleyes:
     
  12. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Not for me ! :D
    Tyre management, pit strategy, team tactics, undercuts, overcuts and else are all BS to me.
    I want real racing from start to finish without interuption, without clever boffins on computers deciding the outcome of a race.
    It was possible in the old says, why can't we have it back now ?
     
  13. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    If only they could hear you !
     
  14. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    Talladega next for the southern USGP, yeehaw:D
     
  15. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Three Time F1 World Champ
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    I’ve been saying that for years....They don’t hear anybody but themselves.
     
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  16. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    #42 Nembo1777, Nov 27, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
    Thanks for posting, they certainly are not messing about.

    Hard to judge that future banked turn -photos one and four- but it seems more like a raised tight corner than a traditional banked flowing curve. Time will tell, too early to predict it's overtaking benefit. The idea is for it to help get cars closer to each other to favour overtaking at the next corner, Tarzan, just after the pit straight.
     
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  17. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Yes, I can’t quite figure out the radius either.
     
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  18. bmwracer

    bmwracer Formula Junior

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    They will adjust the ride height accordingly so that will not be an issue . Tires are another story , no matter how good they are , my guess is there will be the odd blowout . I ran Daytona for 20 years , never hard a tire issue but a couple of my co racers did and it gets ugly fast . We shall see
     
  19. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper F1 World Champ
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    First I've heard about this. It will add some excitement, for sure, but also maybe some spectacular pileups. With banking, "What goes down, must come up."
     
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  20. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    IIRC the Pozzi team withdrew it's second 512BBLM at Daytona back in the day when the first burst a tire and crashed while the second one exhibited dangerous one sided wear on its own tires. Could not cope with the banking.
     
  21. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    #47 Nembo1777, Nov 28, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2019
    No it is just a teeny short bit of track, see photos one and four, not at all conducive to the constant top speed pack chases you are thinking of. Apples and oranges.

    But if someone flies off the top he will land in the UK or Ireland:eek:

    Since we are speaking of bankings one bit of trivia which I always found amusing is that the curve at Le Mans called Indianapolis is far more banked than the Speedway.
     
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  22. lorenzobandini

    lorenzobandini F1 Rookie
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    .....Though not named so due to the banking....t'was the underlying bricks (Indy even nicknamed The Brickyard, back in the day ; and still to some to this day ;))

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/jun/17/le-mans-unspoiled-f1-24-hour-race
    "The section before Arnage is still known as Indianapolis – so called because it was originally paved with bricks, as Indy was back then."

    https://www.lemans.org/en/news/24-ho...anapolis/19739

    "especially, a layer of bricks was found under the track when it was asphalted just like the “Brickyard”,"
    "Going back to the first edition of the 24 Hours in 1923, the road was almost flat at the Indianapolis corner but, by 1928, the banking effect was beginning to have an impact as a rut had been formed by the stream of cars hitting the apex."
     
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  23. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    Interesting,did not know they used bricks there. I like that spot during Le Mans classic around four am, magic, then a nap in the car and back to the pit area for dawn:)
     
  24. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

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    If there were an exception to the "mandatory pit stop == 2 tire compounds" rule::

    Something like: You either start on the tire you qualified on (in Q2) OR you are allowed to pick a harder compound and do the whole race on it.
     

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