| Author | Message | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Intermediate Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 1138 Registered: 6-2002 |
Here's a pic of the Five-Seven.  Some info. http://arms.host.sk/firearms/fiveseven.htm Again, the armour-piercing rounds are (probally rightly) banned, but the gun and 10 round mags are not, nor are the soft-point version of these amazingly fast rounds! Best! Ben. | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Intermediate Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 1132 Registered: 6-2002 |
I just found out the at the FN Five-Seven pistol may be legal for civillian ownership. You need to use only the non-AP unrestricted SS192 ammo (still at 2100fps, from a pistol!) and 10 round clips instead of 20. Neat stuff. Best! Ben. | ||
| MICHAEL MORETT (Thecarreaper)
New member Username: Thecarreaper Post Number: 36 Registered: 9-2003 |
yes Michael you are correct, here in GA we ( for now) are a class three state. i looked into the feasibility of bieng incorperated to write off the firearms and avoid some of the hassle, but it seems in my case its not a good idea and i have have "paid my dues" so all the " right " people sign me off when i need it now. i just wanted to point out what a pain in the butt it is to even get approved to have one of these, much less give up the right to keep it after all that trouble. just my .02 | ||
| Michael (Mtabije)
Member Username: Mtabije Post Number: 307 Registered: 10-2001 |
Michael, To add to your points: Your state also has to be a Class III state. I believe if you incorporate you can forgo the Cheif LEO/Judge sign off and have the corporation sign for your weapon. You get an EXTENSIVE background check. With a concealed weapons permit, more so. | ||
| MICHAEL MORETT (Thecarreaper)
New member Username: Thecarreaper Post Number: 33 Registered: 9-2003 |
my points are: 1) i respect your opinion 2) you have a great ferrari, however anyone with cash that has a drivers license can have a fast car, motorcycle ect. 3)i dont agree with not bieng able/allowed to keep the before mentioned firearms after having to do the following. A) you are photographed B)you are fingerprinted with FULL palm prints c)you have to get local chief of police to say its ok if you have one in his jurisdiction d)you have to pay ATF a fee / tax for each feature of the same gun. $200 for short barrel, $200 for silencer, $200 for full auto.PLUS THE COST OF THE GUN AND SALES TAX!!!!! i agree that you (TOM) said nothing about "banning" guns, but to NOT be allowed to have them in thier possesion, highpowered or otherwise, would be like someone saying that those with high performance cars should not have them at home either. cars kill way more people every year. my brother was killed by a drunk driver a long time ago, i dont blame the cars. my apologies for any confusion . | ||
| Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Member Username: Tbakowsky Post Number: 729 Registered: 9-2002 |
LOL Mike!! | ||
| Rikky Alessi (Ralessi)
Member Username: Ralessi Post Number: 420 Registered: 5-2002 |
Anyone have numbers on exotic/sports/fast car deaths vs. accidental high-powered gun deaths? | ||
| Michael (Mtabije)
Member Username: Mtabije Post Number: 306 Registered: 10-2001 |
Tom, Let's play ad-lib: Here's the original post: I never said anything about banning guns!! All I was saying is that there should be a safe and secure place to store EXTREMLY HIGH POWERED WEAPONS. Gun are a right to own and I fully encouage anybody who is sane to own a gun. BUT high powered weapons should be regulated only to gun ranges that have propper facilities for them. A weapon like this should not be transported in the trunk of a car!! Here is the ad-lib fun: I never said anything about banning _______(exotic cars)!! All I was saying is that there should be a safe and secure place to store ________ (extremely fast cars). _________(exotic cars) are a right to own and I fully encourage anybody who is sane to own a(an) _________(exotic car). BUT ____________(high horsepower cars)should be regulated only to ____________ (tracks) that have the proper facilities for them. A(n)________(exotic car) like this should not____________ (be driven by it's owner to said track)! Hehehehe, just joshing with you. | ||
| Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Member Username: Tbakowsky Post Number: 728 Registered: 9-2002 |
I never said anything about banning guns!! All I was saying is that there should be a safe and secure place to store EXTREMLY HIGH POWERED WEAPONS. Gun are a right to own and I fully encouage anybody who is sane to own a gun. BUT high powered weapons should be regulated only to gun ranges that have propper facilities for them. A weapon like this should not be transported in the trunk of a car!! | ||
| Gregory (Prugna_328)
Junior Member Username: Prugna_328 Post Number: 80 Registered: 9-2003 |
I have a question. Gee, uh, duh. I can't figure it out. How come the vast majority of the posts here are pro gun but the news media constantly shoves down our throats some crap like 90% of the people want to ban guns????????? Gun control doesn't work, never has, never will. | ||
| MICHAEL MORETT (Thecarreaper)
New member Username: Thecarreaper Post Number: 30 Registered: 9-2003 |
mr tom, I HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH YOU. i have a state of georgia comcealed weapons license and a federal firearms license as a " collector" i have a huge safe , an alarm system and i live next to the local police station. with no problems. i have lent certain firEarms out to law enforcement officers as needed to help with trials and cases. my point is i paid lots of money to legally buy my guns and secure them, so i am going to keep them close to me as the federal law requires class 3 weapons to be available for inspection. you have a ferrari , you have worked had to get it and take care of it. how would you like someone to say its too fast for you to keep at your home and you can only keep and drive it at a government track??? it could be stolen and driven into a school bus or something . my other point is that the black market is out there and rarely are legally owned class 3 guns stolen by a common criminals. those of us that can buy these guns have to have a very clean record, and the guns are very very expensive, like your beautiful ferrari. i am not wanting to start a war as you have the right to your opionion, but i am not going to pay all this money and go through all this hassle and let the government or anyone else tell me i cant keep my weapons, cars , guitars or whatever at home. | ||
| Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Member Username: Tbakowsky Post Number: 724 Registered: 9-2002 |
Mike B. I never said that guns should be outlawed. I for one would never want to see that happen as per the points you made. But I still feel that large caliber fully automatic tri-pod mounted, bullet belt weapons should be only available to gun ranges that are equiped to handel such a weapon. You should be allowed to fire and enjoy such a device when ever you like, and even own one yourself, but I feel it should be kept and secured off personal properies such as your home etc. The reason for this is for your personal security. Think of it this way...If you and your friends are out somewere,and talking about the various guns you own, somebody could be listening in. They could follow you home. Then the one day your not home or one vacation, they could break into your home for the sole perpose of stealing that weapon. High powered weapons have a very strong pull to people on the wrong side of the law. They can and have stolen weapons from legal gun owners just to commit crimes. But haveing a seriously high powered weapon in ones home is IMHO a horriable accident waiting to happen. | ||
| Michael (Mtabije)
Member Username: Mtabije Post Number: 305 Registered: 10-2001 |
Ben, it never amazes me how many people say they met me before. Whose cloning me!!!?? I have a long lost twin, triplet, or quintuplet! LOL. No, I've never been over to the Bay Area. To All: Here is an interesting link regarding the RKBA movement (The Right to Keep and Bear Arms)presented in Flash/Powerpoint style: [url]www.flashbunny.org[/url] Some interesting quotes: "History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subjected peoples to carry arms have prepared their own fall" - Adolf Hitler, Edict of 18 March 1939 "Our task of creating a Socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed." -Sarah Brady "The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun." -Patrick Henry, in the Virginia Convention on the ratification of the Constitution "This year will go down in history, for the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future" -Adolph Hitler on gun control. A quote from a newspaper interview. Berlin Daily, April 15th,1935 Page 3 Article 2 by Einleitung Von Eberhard Beckmann-"Abscheid Vom Hessenland" "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin "If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."-Samuel Adams "You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in their struggle for independence." -C. A. Beard Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the Peoples' Liberty's Teeth." -George Washington | ||
| Ali Haas (Aehaas)
Junior Member Username: Aehaas Post Number: 185 Registered: 5-2003 |
In the 1980�s a Canadian publisher, Collector Grade Publications, put out a book by R. Blake Stevens and Edward Ezell called The Black Rifle. It is about the M16 development of the early to mid 1950�s. This is a very interesting story. The gun almost never happened. Anyway, as a small hobby firearms dealer I then got interested in the history of machine guns. I became a class 3 dealer, bought an M16, an Uzi, an M14. I later read the book on each of these. I eventually became the local expert on all the types of machine guns, the rules and regulations and actually taught the course to law enforcement. This is a true story. I then became an advisor for purchasing machine guns knowing the differences of all the brands and types. This is unlike a sales person of just one brand. The most interesting fact is that lawfully owned and registered machine guns have never been used in a crime since the onset of the regulations called the National Firearms Act of 1934. Most people can own silencers, machine guns and even grenade launchers in most states. It is a lengthy process but it can be done. The glitch is that in order for a non licensed person to own a machine gun it had to be manufactured before May 19, 1986 making them all highly collectable. There numbers keep decreasing every day. Last year an article in the Wall Street Journal said that machine guns are the best investment as prices have always been climbing fast. Even though my wife and I are marksmen with a Colt 45 we are not otherwise shooters. I do not belong to the NRA. I am just a collector. Yet I saw the light for profit many years ago and to this day still have some of the finest, collectable machine guns to offer for sale. Nobody has ever sold better guns for less than I. Unfortunately my pre-1986 inventory is getting low. There is no way to replace it. When it is all gone I have nothing else to sell to the general public. The Jane's now describes War as anti-material not anti-personal. We no longer fire at people but rather their belongings. aehaas www.prestigearms.com | ||
| Thomas I (Wax)
Member Username: Wax Post Number: 597 Registered: 7-2003 |
Excellent Ted Nugent book - God, Guns & Rock'N'Roll Excellent Fiction - A Flash of Red - Clay Harvey Clay is not just a fiction author, he's a gun expert/writer. | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Intermediate Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 1110 Registered: 6-2002 |
Michael- did I meet you at one of the SF Bay Area F1 gatherings? Best! Ben. | ||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
Member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 392 Registered: 12-2002 |
Tom, I hear what you are saying, but I believe you are completely wrong about "totally unnecessary". A populace that is disarmed is one that can easily be controlled. Would it have been so easy for the Germans to roll into France had the populace been armed? I used to think there were lots of "backwards" countries where gun ownership was widespread, but I was very surprised to see how utterly stifling the gun laws in places like Russia are like. There are lots of countries that suffered through great oppression and one of the common themes is the populace was not allowed to be armed. No government lasts forever, and governments are almost always overpowered by force. If gun ownership was totally outlawed, it would be much easier for my leaders to pass laws to control me, knowing that without weapons, the people can't do too much against police armed with automatic assault rifles. Gun ownership is a vital part of what makes the USA one of the free'est and most democratic nations in the world. | ||
| Michael (Mtabije)
Member Username: Mtabije Post Number: 304 Registered: 10-2001 |
Ah, I love this thread! Here I am a few days ago shooting my M4-gery (Bushmaster XM15E2S) out in the desert Notice the preban USGI magazines. 30rds of 55gr .223 FMJ. Now to work on getting a Class III weapon and paying for the $200 stamp. Then that would be really fun!  | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Intermediate Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 1106 Registered: 6-2002 |
G.Peters- have a great trip! We'll have to connect upon your return, maybe organize an eventual F-chat run to Nevada ;) Best! Ben. | ||
| G.Peters (Wfo_racer)
Junior Member Username: Wfo_racer Post Number: 216 Registered: 5-2002 |
Ben, like I said very cool at night, I see you got my hint. Taking the wife and kids to Hawaii for a few weeks to surf will send you a e-mail later. We collect these things because they are difficult to acquire. Also because I want my sons to be able to enjoy them when they get older if they want. Long after some law maker decides I cannot own them. Some of my stuff is custom made for me to hunt with. I love fresh meat that I gathered. Nobody seems to complain when people fish when the poor fish does not die as quickly as deer does when a you place a 7 Mag. round in the chest cavity. Self defense not really a issue since I live on a small island in So -Cal. The house has security cameras inside and out. Private security guards patrol the streets day and night. Plus after spending twenty years practicing Martial Arts I prefer street fighting over thinking about using a gun. Even now as I am a couple years away from 40 I still love to fight ,you would think I would grow up by now. Just remember guys different strokes for different folks. | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Intermediate Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 1099 Registered: 6-2002 |
Tom- This is turning into an open and intelligent discussion, I love it! You've made some good points, and asked several poinient questions. You've got me thinking too. I agree that no tools of destruction should be placed in the hands of morons. I'd actually be for some kind of US required gun safety and competency testing, if that could exist withought the government getting too close to saying "no one" can now have them. Heck, you take a test to drive a car, right? That's a weapon (in the wrong hands, a very dangerous one) too! I would like to see not only gun safety and testing required, but fire competency too. Some idoit who can't aim, or fails to consider their 'background' and may kill someone in the next room, is a *danger* to themself and others, and should not in my opinion, posses any kind of arm. I do belive that any responsible society would want it's responsible, intelligent, and honorable citizens to own arms (be they bow and arrow, gun, etc.) The reason being to directly control and remove from power those who would behave irresponsibly, stupidly, and withought honor (ie, try to rape or kill your children.) One could say to wait for the police, but what if your phone line is cut? What if they just take 30min to respond? Or put you on hold? (happened to me 3 times now after calling 911.) What if you were carrying a pistol at a bank, and some idoit came in hoped up on smack and started shooting (or just stabbing) people indiscriminantly? Un-armed, you could do very little, but armed, you could stop him from causing more death. The .50BMG is used often to disable automobiles (punches right through the engine block.) not just an anti-personel thing. Designed purely to kill or not, the gun cannot do anything by itself. And if it is just being used to kick up some sand, well, what's wrong with that? (as long as it's done safely of course!) A sword was also designed for killing, but you can just put one on your wall, and maybe take it down and practice with it by yourself, and you are doing nobody any harm. The sword now has a new use and purpose apart from killing, to amuse and challenge the owner. Best! Ben. | ||
| Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Member Username: Tbakowsky Post Number: 723 Registered: 9-2002 |
Both your posts are well recived. Point taken. But at the same time a firearm is and always will be a device that is designed to do just one thing...kill. Yes you can be killed by many other things,but the gun was designed for this purpose only. I'm absoulutly 100% postitive that it would be a blast to shoot one of these things,and I would defenatly love to try it,but at the same time, a weapon of this magnatude should be available only as maybe a rental item at a certified range, that is capable of containing such a weapon. Haveing something like that in private hands,can be dangerous,and really if you step back and look at it, totaly un-nessasary. Yes Ferrari's are un-nessasary aswell,but they were not designed to kill,and you don't need a speaqcial licence to own one(although some people should). Maybe being from Canada I can't relate to well but it's just my owns thoughts. | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Intermediate Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 1094 Registered: 6-2002 |
Tom- I figure many of the owners of say that RAMO may have shot them in the military. For them there may be quite a history and story behind that particuliar arm. I know I chose .30-06 in my rifle in no small part because it reminds me of my cousin (dead at 45 from a heart attack, leaving 2 kids behind) and he in turn reminds me of good times as a child visiting the mid-west, and that every day is precious, none of us are guarenteed a tommorow. For others, it may be the appeal of owning something that is just hard to own. There's a certin appeal to just having something that the government says you really shouldn't have. You know how to make a kid want a toy right, tell him he can't have it! Ferrari does this, they will "only" produce 349 F50s, even though they have a market researched for 350 examples. It's a token gesture, but the point is clear. 'it is hard, if not impossible, to have one of these. You probally cannot have one." Lastly, I'm quite sure it's fun to shoot! (esp at night with tracers.) Best! Ben. | ||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
Member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 391 Registered: 12-2002 |
Tom, Part of a man's desire to posess things is because they are hard to possess. Like a Ferrari - it's expensive, so people want them. Many guns require class III licenses, and therefore are hard to obtain. Many guns are outlawed and/or only allowed prior to a certain date, and therefore very very expensive (note the $10k-50k+ guns at some of the gun sites). So these two things combined make people want to possess them. That's why you see guys with tripod mounted full auto machine guns. It's not like someone is going to take a gun like that and mount it to the roof for defense or hold up the quickie mart with their BMG. They are just fun toys of excess... much like sports cars! | ||
| Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Member Username: Tbakowsky Post Number: 722 Registered: 9-2002 |
Aren't you guys a little old to be playing cowboys and indians? Why do you need such weapons? I like guns,and stuff aswell, in fact I have a couple, but tri-pod machine guns? I guess it's hobby like eveything else, and what ever floats your boat. Do any of you have any really old histroical guns/ rifles? Maybe somthing from the civil war or earlier? What about those really finely carved rifles with all the fancy engraveing? How about some really rare peices? Maybe a weapon used on the high seas by pirates? In other words somthing a little more um....useful?..collectable...not army surplus store stuff? | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Intermediate Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 1090 Registered: 6-2002 |
G.Peters- Nevada seems to be the place to safely do this sort of thing. Shoot me an e-mail if you get a chance; [email protected] Best! Ben. | ||
| G.Peters (Wfo_racer)
Junior Member Username: Wfo_racer Post Number: 215 Registered: 5-2002 |
Ben , in my case I have some pretty cool stuff but for me a public forum is not the best place to discuss the pea-shooters. Suffice to say I have some "serious firepower" that we have to go to the Nevada desert to play with. We got more attention than we wanted a few months ago here in the Republik of Kalifornia last time we went plinking. Very cool to see a round fly in a moon less Nevada night . | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Intermediate Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 1089 Registered: 6-2002 |
Jeff- Ok, asside from Ali's uh, 'little' .50 cal machine gun (heh) nothing really out of kilter here. I don't see any Uzis. And the HK that started the thread, it shoots just 9mm pistol bullets (and is only legal at a range, or with a very rare ClassIII license.) The AR-15 shown shoots a .223 that's a .22 caliber bullet (albit at high velocity.) Your average hunting rifle is far more dangerous. But dosen't look as scary. But I've gotta say, I sure don't think it'd be a good idea to break into any of the houses of posters of this thread! Best! Ben. | ||
| MarkPDX (Markpdx)
Intermediate Member Username: Markpdx Post Number: 1070 Registered: 4-2003 |
HK is building a plant in GA story here | ||
| Jeff Howe (Ferrari_uk)
Member Username: Ferrari_uk Post Number: 575 Registered: 12-2002 |
Hi all. Just seems a bit excessive ! Machine guns and oozies under the stairs ! I thought the 'west' had been tamed  | ||
| Stewart Chung (Navygakman)
Junior Member Username: Navygakman Post Number: 135 Registered: 2-2002 |
I was just down in San Diego for drill (I am in the Reserve) and I looked up my nephew in Carlsbad (a student at the ArmyNavyAcademy). Guess where I took him for fun? Disneyland?  | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 2053 Registered: 5-2001 |
Actually Ben, the better analogy is that a gun is basically a remote controlled spear, as it puts a hole through an object. So we have just advanced the spear. Granted, with expanding bullets, we have advanced further in making bigger holes. On to quotes; my three favorites: "A gun is a tool, Marian, no better, no worse than any other tool, an ax, a shovel, anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it, remember that." Alan Ladd in "Shane" "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud, General Introduction to Psychoanalysis (1952) "...arms...discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." Thomas Paine | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Intermediate Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 1077 Registered: 6-2002 |
Jeff- sure is. Please realize that guns are just a technology one step up from say a knife. They are neither good nor bad, it is the individual weilding them that must accept FULL responsability for their actions. While there is a fake quote attributed to Hilter that is more worded as a 'safety' celebration of gun control, this one is real and I think far more sinister... "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let's not have any native militia or native police. German troops alone will bear the sole responsibility for the maintenance of law and order throughout the occupied Russian territories, and a system of military strong-points must be evolved to cover the entire occupied country." Adolf Hitler, dinner talk on April 11, 1942, quoted in Hitler's Table Talk 1941-44: His Private Conversations, Second Edition (1973), Pg. 425-426. Translated by Norman Cameron and R. H. Stevens. Introduced and with a new preface by H. R. Trevor-Roper. The original German papers were known as Bormann-Vermerke. | ||
| Kds (Kds)
Member Username: Kds Post Number: 308 Registered: 5-2003 |
Jeff UK..... I can somewhat understand your consternation, I mean after all guns are anathema to the UK, are they not ? Here's a little ditty I found that sort of backs the "arsenal of democracy" statement from Dave....maybe it will help.... -------- Kick down 100 doors of self-proclaimed French pacifists, grab the women and kids, and haul them away. Then try again in Texas, with 100 NRA members. Collate, or rather, have a surviving relative collate the results. Extrapolate the abductors' rates of casualties to determine the total number of murdering swine needed. See what percentage of jackbooted thugs have a suicide wish and then determine the number of men you will need to disarm, kidnap and murder 50 million armed people. You will need a lot of men. More than you can raise. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 2051 Registered: 5-2001 |
Jeff, You bet it's for real! We are, after all, the "arsenal of democracy". And a good thing for you guys in the UK or you'd all be celebrating "Octoberfest" right around now! :-) | ||
| Bill Woodward (Slackjaw)
New member Username: Slackjaw Post Number: 11 Registered: 7-2003 |
Hi Omar, I'm a huge fan of the AUG as well. Sometimes one pops up on www.auctionarms.com and there are often pre-ban magazines and other parts as well for us Cali folks. --Woody | ||
| MarkPDX (Markpdx)
Intermediate Member Username: Markpdx Post Number: 1059 Registered: 4-2003 |
_____________________________________________________________________ quote: it is pretty surprising what people keep for "Hunting" and Home Safety _____________________________________________________________________ Heck, I have even heard of people driving Ferraris when a Ford will do. It doesn't look like the gun laws in the UK are working so well. click | ||
| Jim Muise (Writerguy)
Junior Member Username: Writerguy Post Number: 124 Registered: 9-2003 |
The scary thing is yes.... Sorry guys as a import from the great white north this is beyond my experience but in Texas it is pretty surprising what people keep for "Hunting" and Home Safety | ||
| Jeff Howe (Ferrari_uk)
Member Username: Ferrari_uk Post Number: 573 Registered: 12-2002 |
Is this stuff for real.....???????? | ||
| MarkPDX (Markpdx)
Intermediate Member Username: Markpdx Post Number: 1058 Registered: 4-2003 |
Good article on Knob Creek in today's Wall Street Journal. Here | ||
| Ali Haas (Aehaas)
Junior Member Username: Aehaas Post Number: 180 Registered: 5-2003 |
That RAMO is the current issue 50 cal. It actually comes in several versions. The aircraft version can fire at 900 rpm. aehaas www.prestigearms.com | ||
| Nibblesworth (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 710 Registered: 11-2002 |
Ali - that's not the .50cal used by the US military, is it? The barrel looks somehwat similar, but the receiver doesn'tjive with what I remember. But, it has been almost ten years since I've shot one, so I can't say for sure. God, I LOVED firing that gun. Funny story - my A-gunner and I were clearing a jammed round out of the camber, and the bolt was locked to the rear. I had my hand in the bolt housing, trying to fish out the round, when all of a sudden, the locking mechanism holding the bolt back failed and the bolt came smashing home. I pulled my hand out as fast as I could, bt the bolt caught the edge of my brand new Timex Indiglo (really spiffy thing ten years ago) and sucked it into the chamber. We pulled the bolt back to the rear and I could see my watch jammed into the chamber, but it looked as though it was in one piece. I went to pull the watch out, and when I touched it, it literally disintegrated. Kinda hairy, considering my hand had been in there and narrowly missed! | ||
| Kyle Madan (Kmadan)
Junior Member Username: Kmadan Post Number: 68 Registered: 1-2002 |
www.gunbroker.com is another ebay like site to search for firearms. A great portion of the sellers are actually shops and you can go directly to them if you would like. | ||
| Ali Haas (Aehaas)
Junior Member Username: Aehaas Post Number: 179 Registered: 5-2003 |
In the old garage / house. The wife and friend, a RAMO 50 HB. I only show this picture to prove how badly I needed a new house with a 2,000 sq. ft. garage as posted previously.  aehaas | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Advanced Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 3477 Registered: 6-2001 |
I'm joking Omar. I've fired firearms before. Nothing big, just .22 rifles that i fire out at my grandfather's camp in southern Vermont. One of them is semi-auto and it's pretty satisfying to fire 17 rounds in like 15 seconds and make cans look like swiss cheese. The only other non-air powered gun ive shot was a 12 guage. That experinece tought me that skeet shooting was not one of my strengths. I'd never own a gun though. this is because shooting at a range doesnt excite me all that much and i probably wouldnt use it to kill anyone or anything, so i dont have a use for one. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 4419 Registered: 9-2001 |
I am looking to get a 20 gauge shotgun for hunting deer and turkey, I am considering a Mossberg or remmington, any thoughts? | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Intermediate Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 1091 Registered: 9-2002 |
Tim you have a very odd complex. You dont go and show off your guns to anyone, you dont take them to the local "spot" showing them off to all the ladies how great you are because you have a big rifle... you take them out to a range, and literally have a great time if your into it. I know that for me, firing a well-made rifle is an experiance like non other. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Advanced Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 3475 Registered: 6-2001 |
Why is everyone so into guns?? Are ferraris not enough to make up for a small penis? If the answer is no, then i guess you can sign my up with the NRA... | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 2038 Registered: 5-2001 |
Sean, don't forget #2 universal fireams safety rule: "Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target." Don't wish you to have a negligent discharge by resting your finger on the trigger.... | ||
| Sean Ruckel (Sruckel)
Junior Member Username: Sruckel Post Number: 237 Registered: 10-2001 |
Hey Ryan, I recently took out an MP5 and had some fun.... you got to love it!  I think we ran about 1200 rounds in about 2 hours. We also took out this toy:  Some serious firepower. | ||
| MarkPDX (Markpdx)
Intermediate Member Username: Markpdx Post Number: 1028 Registered: 4-2003 |
Check the ads at Subguns. I'm not too familiar with Styer but I'm guessing the USR is a post AW ban version of the AUG. I see a USR listed at $2599 and a nib AUG for $4,975 ackkk!!! | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 2037 Registered: 5-2001 |
Ali, You da man! :-) Omar, no places for "deals" on Augs...pretty much what the market will bear (Vollmer will NOT be a "decent" price). I would prowl around guns shows, find a good one, haggle like hell and pay cash. (I would think you could find one for around $2500 to $2800) I found mine through a friend, he wanted it to have a "good home" so I got the rifle with 20" barrel, spare 16" barrel, tons of spare parts (trigger group, firing pin, gas rings, left hand bolt, etc.) plus 9 magazines for $3,300. This was a few years ago... I have several Colt AR-15's in various configurations, and find them more egonomic and lighter in weight. Especially the 16" gov't model (skinny barrel) with four postion stock. Leaves more room to carry loaded mags, as I like to carry at least a "double basic load" of 12 magazines on my web gear. As others have said, the 16" AR-15 or Aug is far better for CQB than any subgun. For open terrain then the .308 battle rifle reigns supreme (M14/M1A, G3/Cetme, FAL, etc.) The only purpose of the pistol is for concealment or to fight your way to your rifle.... | ||
| Nibblesworth (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 708 Registered: 11-2002 |
Ralph - I ALMOST got you beat. I had the honor of watching ONE AT-10 rocket get launched. A tank killer. That thing was AWESOME. One big, bad, BOOOOOOOM. Too bad I didn't fire it! So, I gracefully bow out, and bown down to the superiority of the M1A1. | ||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
Member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 951 Registered: 3-2002 |
Hi Nebula Class: I fired a 120mm round from a M-1A1 at Ft. Hood. It was a live training round. - Uzi is the best battlefield SMG MP5 is the best police SMG | ||
| Doug O (Little_o)
New member Username: Little_o Post Number: 50 Registered: 6-2002 |
Omar, Concerning finding an Aug, keep checking FJVOLLMER.COM, they pop-in once in awhile. Doug | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Advanced Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 3019 Registered: 1-2002 |
Long live the Second Amendment, and the United States of America! | ||
| Dave Goldman (Dave328)
Member Username: Dave328 Post Number: 289 Registered: 11-2002 |
Here's what I had to settle for since the Gun-Nazi's have driven the price of authentic Hk G3's and the like through the stratosphere!!  It's a Spanish CETME. Basically the Hk G3's granddad. It's due for the Hk synthetic stock change,though, cuz that foregrip gets H O T !!! Gotta love the 7.62/.308! GOD BLESS THE NRA! Dave | ||
| Ali Haas (Aehaas)
Junior Member Username: Aehaas Post Number: 177 Registered: 5-2003 |
Check out my web site Prestigearms.com aehaas | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Intermediate Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 1090 Registered: 9-2002 |
dave handa, any good recomendations where I can get a AUG, really nice, decent price as a shooter? I soooo want one again.  | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Intermediate Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 1064 Registered: 6-2002 |
"Why do you need a fully automatic weapon?" Well, for one thing, there is only ONE recorded incident in which a fully-automatic Assault Weapon was used in a killing in the US. (a police officer used one in a contract killing.) Therefore, I conclude they're about the safest guns you can get ;) Best! Ben. | ||
| DL (Darth550)
Member Username: Darth550 Post Number: 460 Registered: 7-2003 |
Here is a good site to find weapons for sale. http://www.gunsamerica.com/ Enjoy. DL | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 2035 Registered: 5-2001 |
Ben, ballistically, they are pretty much the same. I would go with the .308/7.62x51. | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Intermediate Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 1063 Registered: 6-2002 |
Dave- following that principle, GAU-17 works as a great post-hole digger ;D Best! Ben. | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Intermediate Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 1062 Registered: 6-2002 |
What do you guys think of the 30-06 round versus the 308Win/7.62NATO rounds? I have the option of either round in the 7400. Leaning towards .308 because of the huge variaty of ammo if I'm ever in a real pinch (It's going to be my range/desert rifle, but you just never know.) Best! Ben. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 2034 Registered: 5-2001 |
Unfortunately the SAW is saddled with the same round, but I suppose if you concentrate the fire on the same spot, it will get through eventually. But better yet, get the M240 in there and be done with it ever so quickly. :-) | ||
| Nibblesworth (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 703 Registered: 11-2002 |
Ok - I'm somewhat familiar with that weapon, although I've never had the chance to shoot, or even hold one. I'd love to get the chance, though, I'm not a big fan of the .223, but when used in the correct weapon, it's a fairly good round. In an M16/AR15, for example, the damn thing is accurate as hell. Speaking from personal experience, you can easily teach someone to be able to hit a man-sized target from 500 yards 5 out of 10 shots with less than an hour of training. It doesn't pack the wallop that the 7.62 does, but the wallop isn't needed if you've got a clear line of sight. Of course, behind a wall, I know what your uncle is saying. When we trained with the M16, the primary instructor gave a good demo of the deficiencies of the round. First, he fired a 7.62 round into a box of sand, and the roung went straight through. Next, he fired the 5.56, and it didn't make it halfway through. Ah well. When the enemy is behind a wall, the rifleman steps aside and the SAW gunner steps in and wreck havoc. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 2032 Registered: 5-2001 |
The Aug is a nice rifle, and it's modularity is quite nice for servicing, making changing of the trigger pack or barrel a very simple procedure. I have one, but still prefer the AR-15 with iron sights. | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Intermediate Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 1089 Registered: 9-2002 |
As from: http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm   My experiance with the AUG: I got to fire one when I was visiting my Uncle in the marines. I fell in love. It was his favorite 223, and now is mine. The weight balance is insane...unlike ARs,Aks, and *gasp*, even HKs, it litreally felt like I was holding nothing at all...perfect weight balance for my build. The accuracy was impressive..the built in site was well made. The sound...on the sound was heavenly. No other 223 sounds soo wonderful IMO. Now the bad: I needs a HK selector instead of its 'touch sensor'. With a HK selector u choose safe, single, double, triple, or full auto all with a simple flick to the right spot...with AUGs rely on trigger pull length. More u pull, more it shoots. Not good IMO when ur nervous shooting ur Uncle's pride and joy and don't know what to expect (or in combat for that matter) Also, I generally dislike the .223 round as a combat round. It works for its intended purpose, but just lacks the punch of a 308. My uncle would say, yea I would use a AUG all day, but when the guy hid behind a wall...well then that would be when I would like to pull out a G3 and shoot him...through the wall. | ||
| Kyle Madan (Kmadan)
Junior Member Username: Kmadan Post Number: 67 Registered: 1-2002 |
Ben - for CA gun laws the best resource is the CA DOJ Firearms website- http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/ There is a Frequently Asked Questions section at the bottom. They are also good about answering emails with a couple of days. For those that have AR-15 lower receivers you can also purchase .50 upper receivers, converting the gun into a different beast. Have not shot one in this configuration yet but have heard good things from friends. It does not look like Arnold will provide any relief from CA's draconian gun laws. We'll have to put someone in office who will when his term is up. Good luck with the Class III application! | ||
| Nibblesworth (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 701 Registered: 11-2002 |
Omar - I'm not familiar with the AUG. Tell me about it... | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Intermediate Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 1086 Registered: 9-2002 |
Neb, as far as .223s go, you are not a complete until you fire a AUG. Now that is a sexy gun. I love HKs and all, but I have to say them AUGs..ummhumm. | ||
| Kds (Kds)
Member Username: Kds Post Number: 299 Registered: 5-2003 |
Ryan.... It is a blast.....isn't it. (pun intended) I did 6 years in the Canadian Army and fired virtually everything they had, up to the 105mm L7 tank gun that was on my Leopard MBT. I was a career tanker BTW. The most enjoyable part of my time was the when I took my sniper course. We had (and still do I believe) the "Parker Hale M82" which was significantly upgraded in the 80's. It gives a new feeling to the term, "reach out and touch someone". Tom Bakowsky says "Why do you need a fully automatic weapon" to which I reply (tongue in cheek) because you are a lousy shot ? | ||
| Nibblesworth (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 700 Registered: 11-2002 |
Ahhh....lovely guns! I've had the opportunity to fire some of the world's finest rifles and handguns. Uzi - semi and full auto. That was nice. AK47 - another fine weapon. These rifles I had the pleasure of shooting before I joined the Marine Corps. Then I had some serious fun: 1. The M16 A2, of course. Became a rifle instructor after two years. 2. Beretta 9mm, which I also instructed students how to use. 3. The M249 SAW and the M240G. These are fun, fun, FUN! 4. .50cal machine gun. 'Nuff said. 5. One of my favorites, the Mk19 Grenade Launcher. For those not familiar with this weapon, it looks somewhat like a .50cal, but it is a fully automatic grenade launcher. That was a blast! 6. Finally, a .50cal Desert Eagle. This wasn't on Marine Corps time, of course. I fired this beast at a range. Cost me $20 to rent the sucker, and $1/round! A good friend of mine owns two AR15's here in California. Well, actually, he owns 1 1/2. He bought a complete unit, then heard of the upcoming ban, so he bought a second lower receiver. I've fired the AR15, and it is idenitcal to the military-grade M16A2. The only difference is the lack of a three-round burst on the AR15. Even the sound of the recoil spring after each shot is identical...it was pretty cool to fire the AR15 three years after I finished my time.....brought back good memories! Unfortunately, I own no guns. But I will, at some point, buy myself a mini-14 | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Intermediate Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 1061 Registered: 6-2002 |
I thought it was a $5k gun... | ||
| MarkPDX (Markpdx)
Intermediate Member Username: Markpdx Post Number: 1021 Registered: 4-2003 |
My favorite local gun shop has had a PSG1 sitting around for quite a few years @ $10k. It's nice looking and probably a real sweet shooter but the price just seems ridiculous to me. | ||
| G.Peters (Wfo_racer)
Junior Member Username: Wfo_racer Post Number: 211 Registered: 5-2002 |
Very cool , went to the San Gabriel Valley Gun Club last week to sight in my 7 Mag for deer season. Three shots at 100 yards would have fit in a Silver Dollar. I'm having fresh Bambi for dinner next week. I bought many cool things before California began the bans, South African Street Sweeper, MP5's , etc. Hell I could start my own war. By the way many things are available for purchase if you know where to look. To those that ask why we need a full auto, because we can. P : People E : Eating T : Tasty A : Animals Lifetime member. | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
Intermediate Member Username: Bahiaau Post Number: 1095 Registered: 12-2001 |
Jordan, here you go. http://world.guns.ru/assault/as12-e.htm A Barrett would be nice but I like the PSG1 too. Always nice to see fellow arms enthusiasts! "Only a government that is afraid of it's citizens tries to control them." Gabe, exactly! I like your Colt, nice rifle. I also like the DPMS versions. | ||
| MarkPDX (Markpdx)
Intermediate Member Username: Markpdx Post Number: 1020 Registered: 4-2003 |
Here is a great picture of the .50 caliber Barrett M82:   Compare with M-16/AR-15  Any BCRs here? | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Intermediate Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 1085 Registered: 9-2002 |
Tom, you don't need a 200 mph sports car either, but thats what makes America great, you can get things you really dont need if you work at it long enough. Jordan, here is the thread: G3 help HK for ever! | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Intermediate Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 1084 Registered: 9-2002 |
Jordan I started a thread on them a while back. | ||
| Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Member Username: Tbakowsky Post Number: 710 Registered: 9-2002 |
Why do you need a fully automatic weapon? | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Intermediate Member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 2192 Registered: 12-2002 |
Someone post a picture of the G3...I gotta see that now! Note to self...Dont invade Gabe or Ben's house | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Intermediate Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 1083 Registered: 9-2002 |
 Albeit keychains, they get the point across. G3s use .308s, and Ar15/M16s use .223s. | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Intermediate Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 1082 Registered: 9-2002 |
Jordan, you havent seen a G3. Now thats a man's battle rifle...non of this baby intermediate round crap.  | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Intermediate Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 1060 Registered: 6-2002 |
Jordan- look at the doorknob though, they're actually fairly small rifles :P Just scary as all hell looking! (part of the appeal of the AR-15 to me, even if an intruder is also armed with say a hand-gun, there's a good chance he'll feel more than a little out-classed when what appears to be a fully automatic assault rifle is leveled at his face.) There's a definate effect of 'discouraging un-friendly behavior' that this particuliar gun provides... | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Intermediate Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 1059 Registered: 6-2002 |
Gabe- nice going! I did find one new CA_legal AR-15 variant, but it is 10 round only, non-detachable magazine. (lack of mag not great for in-a-pinch home defence in my opinion.) FAB-10 is the designation. Do you know if private sale/gifting is still allowed for existing AR-15 owners? I admit I'm a bit lax on ALL the various laws. (Fed, state, and local municipality all play a role.) Everyone I ask has a different story. The .50BMG is an unbeliveable cartridge, reach out and touch the fuzz right off a peach at 1000 yards quite reliably (and up to a mile with a few follow-up shots.) Muzzle brake means recoil is about 30-06 range. Pitty the Barret is on 'the list' "Reach out and cure a Fellon" I love it. One very ironic option, I may still be able to own an M16-A2 manufactuared before 1986. Yes, a fully automatic machine gun. Just have to do the whole Class III weapons application buisness, and the FBI is allowed to say 'no'. (no constitutional guarentee there is all.) In essence, the 7400 is much like the AR-10 (bigger .308Win version of AR-15.) in that it is a semi-auto .308 rifle with 10 round clips. Especially this version: http://ruger-mini-14-firearms.com/cust_remington_7400.html Then again, the Ruger Mini-14 is an AR-15 in disguise too. SUUUUSH! Don't tell the liberals (or whoever it is these days.) Best! Ben. | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Intermediate Member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 2191 Registered: 12-2002 |
Gabe, those are some big ••••••• guns! | ||
| Gabe V (Racerxgto)
Junior Member Username: Racerxgto Post Number: 136 Registered: 4-2003 |
Ben, I was able to acquire a Colt Sportster(AR-15) before the gun nazis banned the sale of magazine fed, semi-auto rifles with a pistol grip. The AR-15 in short, is a remarkable firearm with versatility that no other rifle can match. Though if you already know its capabilities I probably don't need to tell you. Currently, unless there are any gun lawyers in the house, you can still buy the .50 BMG in a rifle grip format, not the Berett that is mag fed. Though the civillian models have a shortened barrel over the longer mil-spec, its accuracy is longer than most rifles on the market. That's a pretty powerful rifle, let me tell you! As you work your way down on the knockdown power, a good 'ole 45-70 has the stopping power to knock down a black bear as well as some grizz and should be suitable in stopping a drugged up criminal. Next on the list of all time favorites is the .416 which an all around big game rifle used in many African safaris and on a good California ranch, should be able to reach out and cure a felon. If we(californians) can ever get our gun rights back and regain the right to buy these firearms again, then you may get your chance. Only a government that is afraid of it's citizens tries to control them.  | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 2031 Registered: 5-2001 |
Ben, yup, dumb legislators just don't like those nasty looking black rifles, so they forced you to get a more powerful 30 cal semi-auto "deer" rifle instead, good for you. Ryan, no military in my background, and too bad for me, but most of the other instructors have a special operations background of one or more areas: Rangers, SF, Recon, Delta, etc...several are now involved in law enforcement as well, either full time or reserve. | ||
| Ryan Alexander (Ryalex)
Junior Member Username: Ryalex Post Number: 141 Registered: 8-2003 |
Dave - that's awesome; I've been wanting to take some of those types of courses (your co's 'private' sector ones). Were you military? Ma was Army and Dad's still a Major in the RCAF -Air Force, but I wasn't thrilled about military life (although I wish I had the arms/tactical/physical training & discipline). Who knows, if I end up in the NW again I'll look into your course! You know those lawyer abductions are up in South Central Kirkland ;-). I'll remember that about the elbows next time (in my defense, I don't remember if this was shot when I was actually firing the gun or just lining up, but I'll correct that)... but I had a good start as I was keeping the holes in the target 'guy' and not all over the place with the bursts. One thing you realize PDQ firing one is that 90% of everything shown in movies/TV with automatics is crap: spraying from the hip you wouldn't hit a darn thing. Firing the rifle was rather frustrating as I couldn't get close enough to the sights to see through my new glasses with the big ear muffs on :-(. | ||
| Thomas I (Wax)
Member Username: Wax Post Number: 555 Registered: 7-2003 |
Hey, Ryan - if you're ever in No. Maryland, maybe you can take some moving target practice at my ex-wife. I mean, near my ex-wife's place. Yeah, that's it. That's the ticket. | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Intermediate Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 1053 Registered: 6-2002 |
Dave- Wish I could own an AR-15 in the People's Republic of California. Will have to make due with a 7400 with 10 round clips! (a much more dangerous and powerful weapon, stupid legislators...) Best! Ben | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 2026 Registered: 5-2001 |
Ryan, Good for you! Subguns are great fun; but for serious self defence, nothing beats a rifle! Crank those elbows down next time, and you will have much better control of the weapon. Dave (instructor) www.insightstraining.com | ||
| Gabe V (Racerxgto)
Junior Member Username: Racerxgto Post Number: 135 Registered: 4-2003 |
Ah yes, the H&K MP5-A2 9mm. Reliable CQB weapon for inner city bad guy control. remember; "Short Controlled Bursts!" | ||
| Ryan Alexander (Ryalex)
Junior Member Username: Ryalex Post Number: 139 Registered: 8-2003 |
 And they say law students are aggressive nowadays ;-). | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Intermediate Member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 2189 Registered: 12-2002 |
Sounds like fun! I really want to try my hand at target shooting sometime soon. I think I might have a good eye for it. | ||
| Ryan Alexander (Ryalex)
Junior Member Username: Ryalex Post Number: 138 Registered: 8-2003 |
Woo hoo! That was fun! Went with the Target Shooting Club up to NH this morning for some good old Second Amendment exercise... got to shoot a few .22's, a .44 S&W revolver, a .357, a .45 pistol, and an HK submachinegun (my first time shooting more than a .22, which is all we had back home)... Impressed with the .44: a) louder than hell; b) big kick; and c) FIRE coming out of the chamber and the muzzle!!... but the real fun was the fully automatic. Little pop - pop - pop to get used to it, and switch to "A" mode for ratatatatatatatatat - about 4.5 seconds later the 30-shot clip is done. Extremely gratifying. |