| Author | Message | ||
| Mike Dawson (Miked)
Junior Member Username: Miked Post Number: 122 Registered: 2-2001 |
My son has Cobra R wheels from Ford Racing on his 1990 Thunderbird (5 x 108 mm bolt circle). Very nice wheels, available in paint or chrome and a few different sizes. http://www.supercoupeperformance.com/ under "chassis and suspension" http://customwheelsmarket.com/ford-oem-style-and-replica-wheels-cobra-r.html | ||
| Frank Wiedmann (Frankieferrari)
Junior Member Username: Frankieferrari Post Number: 195 Registered: 8-2003 |
yeah,I always watch that show. Saw them having some "spiderweb" wheels being cut out,too...VERY COOL! I am gonna keep looking,but,maybe that COULD be an option! Thanks for the idea! | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 675 Registered: 5-2002 |
Here's mine with actual 550 wheels  Prior to these, I had the MM -II, 550ish copies on it (same as Mikes pic). 18x8 front and 18x9 rear. They come in 16, 17, 18. I bought them at tirerack to fit an RX-7 or supra which is a a 5x114 with a 45mm offset, then had a set of 25mm thick adapters made to mount them. It worked out perfect, but I had aftermarket springs (smaller), so you might need a thicker adapter in the rear to clear the stock ones. | ||
| Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
Junior Member Username: Tuttebenne Post Number: 249 Registered: 3-2003 |
Ever see that biker show on cable (Orange County Cycles)? They build unique bikes and use "one off" wheels. They use a company called Roe Machine (I think that's how its spelled). If you want truly different wheels and money wasn't an issue, they could make up some cool billet wheels for you to your design. They made a set of wheels for a bike they were doing that was designed in the spirit of the Chapparal helicopter. The wheels looked exactly like the rear rotor blades on the helicopter. They're very talented. How about five-spoke wheels with five prancing horses for spokes? Tacky? | ||
| Barney Guzzo (Trinacria)
Member Username: Trinacria Post Number: 431 Registered: 8-2002 |
Dave All of them had had wheels with the correct bolt pattern and offset. I know because I contacted all of them while I was looking. | ||
| Frank Wiedmann (Frankieferrari)
Junior Member Username: Frankieferrari Post Number: 150 Registered: 8-2003 |
Yeah,after seeing the picture of the 308 with the wirewheels.It kind of verified any doubts that I had with that potential look. I was TRYING to go for a "classic '60's or '70's sportscar" look. And,wanted something that NO ONE ELSE had...but...now I can see why ! I think that I will go the opposite way,and try for a more modern look. BUT...NOT the same old thing...GOT TO find something DIFFERENT ! | ||
| Oldslow308 (Djparks)
Member Username: Djparks Post Number: 576 Registered: 2-2003 |
Frank, Be careful with the wire wheel idea. It's an old type of wheel for an old type of car. I would find it extremely difficult to stomach an Enzo with wire wheels DJ | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 364 Registered: 2-2003 |
Neal, How much if you don't mind saying. Thanks | ||
| neal (95spiderneal)
Junior Member Username: 95spiderneal Post Number: 235 Registered: 3-2002 |
are spacers absolutely nec.? i have a 348 that id like to update with 18" aftermarkets but was told to avoid spacers as they can lead to increased loads and failures. worse if track car id imagine. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 2005 Registered: 10-2002 |
Actually I got the 550 style 16" wheels from garedcars.com as shown in Mike Charness post below. When I bought them, they told me, that there were only few of these left. Haven't gotten a chance to mount them though, but did try them on for size and they fit perfectly. | ||
| James Adams (Madmaxx)
Junior Member Username: Madmaxx Post Number: 173 Registered: 11-2002 |
Nice 88 Esprit!  Do you own both of them? I just got an Esprit, but am still looking into a 308 Ferrari as well. Thanks James | ||
| mike 308 (Concorde)
Member Username: Concorde Post Number: 287 Registered: 8-2002 |
Sean: From that list, www.garedcars.com is one of them, 800wheels.com is another Here's another list of cars that carry the 5x4.25" (5x108mm) bolt pattern I picked up from another site. I don't know about the offsets unless you match them up to the post earlier in this thread, but incorrect offsets can generally be taken care of with spacers. 1992-90 DODGE - Monaco 1992-88 EAGLE - Premier LINCOLN - Continental 1999-86� FORD -Taurus 1997-89 Thunderbird 1996-95 Windstar 1992-86� Taurus 1992-89 MERCURY - Cougar, Montego, Marquis 1992-86� Sable 1996-90 PLYMOUTH - Laser (some 4 1/2") 1992-88 EAGLE - Premier 1999-94 VOLVO - 850 Series, S70/V70 Series 1999-90 940/960 Series 1994-82 740/760/780 Series 1994-79 240 DL, GL, GTL | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 362 Registered: 2-2003 |
Could you save us some time and tell us which ones? | ||
| Dave (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 587 Registered: 4-2001 |
Interesting thing, http://www.spyengineering.com/SPY/ http://www.hamann-motorsport.de/homee.htm http://www.usacomp.com/ http://www.kinesismotorsport.com/ http://www.koenig-specials.com/ http://www.performancewheelsupplies.ltd.uk/main.htm http://www.sacwheels.com/ http://www.garedcars.com/default2.htm http://800wheels.com/ http://www.u12buy.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv? http://www.speedlinecorse.co.uk/info/deals.htm http://www.wheelsboutique.com/products.asp of all the sites listed, only 2 offered wheels to fit a 308 | ||
| Joe Craven (Rscapri2600)
Junior Member Username: Rscapri2600 Post Number: 54 Registered: 7-2002 |
Here are a couple of pics with the wheels installed on the rear.   85 Mondial | ||
| Frank Wiedmann (Frankieferrari)
Junior Member Username: Frankieferrari Post Number: 129 Registered: 8-2003 |
Thanks for the "picture", Thomas. yeah,I guess the jury is out on this one...Doesn't look TOO bad,but,not the look I was expecting,either,...albeit they aren't whitewall Vogues on 24"s,at least!!(grin) I am leanin' towards the wheels that Sean posted on the red GTB. THOSE are very cool,and make the car look more modern. But...like the look of those 17" Speedlines,too! And,thanks to Barney for all those sites to check out. I really appreciate all the input from everyone. Thanks guys. | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 955 Registered: 8-2002 |
Joe: Thanks for the info. 67mm in indeed the hub diameter for 308's and 328's. I have not been able to find a listing of what the offsets are on MM-II 17" wheels. I've already got 16mm (5/8") HR hubcentric spacers on my rear stock wheels and like them (www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/256120/206162.html) FYI, Below are some "standard" offset (ET) measurements from other 5x108 cars (taken from an OZ and other wheels sites, so they're not exact, and depends on the wheel manufacturer's design). It's by no means a complete list. Of course, 308's are between 11mm and 12mm. Volvo V70,S70,S80: 35mm ET Volvo S60: 43MM ET Volvo C70: 43mm ET Volvo 200, 700, 900: 25 ET Pugeot 605, 607: 40mm ET Citroen XM: 35mm ET Renault Laguna,Avantime: 35mm ET Jaguar X's: 46mm ET Ford Mondeo: 40mm ET Ford 2002+ T-Bird: 60mm ET Ford T-Bird (early): 45mm ET Ford Taurus: 35mm ET | ||
| Joe Craven (Rscapri2600)
Junior Member Username: Rscapri2600 Post Number: 53 Registered: 7-2002 |
Mike, I really didn't care about the hub centric adaptors. My only point was that I told them I needed (iirc 67mm) and 14mmx1.25" lug (I'm saying these numbers from my memory, measure before you buy) bolts, but they ended up sending me 12mm lug nuts and 63.5mm hub adaptors which I quickly removed. I told the salesman to order me the wheels that would fit the 1997 Ford TBird. He must have ordered the nuts and hub adapter for that car. I called back but they got really confused when I told them what I needed. They said they didn't have it and I told them I could use the bolts from some V-6 VWs, Audis, various Porsche's but the salesmen told me they didn't have them. BS, they just weren't setup to sell wheels for custom applications. To answer your question, I don't think I need the hub centric adapters. Others will disagree since my wheels are now centered using the lug bolts. I've already driven my car at 100mph with the 7mm spacers w/o hub adapters and it tracks as smooth as it should. If I really need adapters, I'll take the ones they sent me and bore them out on a lathe. The MMIIs do come in 17" sizes and the offsets are closer to what you need for the 308. They will fit, and you want the wheels with the lowest offset and correct bolt pattern. 15mm is still a bit more than stock, so they might sit a bit inward relative to your oem wheels. Of course, a thin spacer can be used to adjust track. 85 Mondial with MMIIs (at least on the rear at this moment.) | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 954 Registered: 8-2002 |
By the way, the wheels available from Nick's Forza are Ronal LZ wheels. Different kind of look. Available in 15" - 18" www.nicksforzaferrari.com/forzaferrariwebsite1004.htm www.ronalusa.com/cars/ferrari-308gts.html  They look good on the black car with the black painted insets... Nick has them shown on a red car, and I don't care for them as much. Also, Nick has them starting at $500 per wheel, but if you search the net, I've seen them in the 17" sizes for about half that, so I expect he'd be negotiable. By the way, the Ronal link above is also a good source for seeing what cars share our 5x108 bolt pattern, though it doesn't tell anything about hub diameters. | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 953 Registered: 8-2002 |
Joe -- I'm a bit confused. If the MM wheels already had the 5x108 bolt pattern, why would you need hubcentric adapters? What car were the wheels you bought SUPPOSED to fit since they wouldn't sell by bolt pattern and offset? The only other cars I know that fit that bolt pattern are some older Volvos and Fords/Mercury ('02 T-Bird, Taurus, Windstar and Mercury Sable) and Jaguar X- and S-types. I've been looking at www.performancealloys.com Their search engine comes up with DOZENS of wheels that match for my 1984 308 but I suspect that isn't correct. However, it does show the MM-II's in 17x7 and 17x8.5 which is what I would get if I thought they would really fit. I've got Brembo drilled rotors, so those wheels would nicely show them off. Thanks | ||
| Barney Guzzo (Trinacria)
Member Username: Trinacria Post Number: 421 Registered: 8-2002 |
http://www.spyengineering.com/SPY/ http://www.hamann-motorsport.de/homee.htm http://www.usacomp.com/ http://www.kinesismotorsport.com/ http://www.koenig-specials.com/ http://www.performancewheelsupplies.ltd.uk/main.htm http://www.sacwheels.com/ http://www.garedcars.com/default2.htm http://800wheels.com/ http://www.u12buy.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv? http://www.speedlinecorse.co.uk/info/deals.htm http://www.wheelsboutique.com/products.asp Have Fun | ||
| Thomas I (Wax)
Junior Member Username: Wax Post Number: 214 Registered: 7-2003 |
Frank, I've seen your search for the wire wheel holy grail elsewhere. ; ) Nada then and now. However... for you, here's un especial photoshopped Bling-Bling Low Ri-der:  | ||
| Joe Craven (Rscapri2600)
Junior Member Username: Rscapri2600 Post Number: 52 Registered: 7-2002 |
Mike, I bought them at Tirerack.com They weren't very helpful, won't sell wheels by offset or bolt pattern. I told them which lug nuts I needed (some Porsche), but they basically wouldn't work out a real custom package and made me agree that they were selling me wheels that wouldn't fit my car. I wanted to order 17" wheels but they told me that all they carried were the 16" and they were on sale until they sold out. I received the wheels, wrong hub centric adaptors and wrong lug nuts (remember, I needed lug bolts). However, they fit my Mondial better than I expected so I am pleased. I didn't expect them to clear the two studs that are screwed into the hub holding the disc brake. The Mille Miglia wheels already had factory cutouts that fit my hubs perfectly. 5x108 bolt pattern and almost perfect offset. 85 Mondial | ||
| Scott Anderson (Srandrsn)
Junior Member Username: Srandrsn Post Number: 177 Registered: 4-2001 |
Frank, I live on the Brule river way up north here in WI. I'm 40 minutes SE of Duluth, MN. As for my two cents on wheels I've always thought that the 308 looks best with a "wide" 5 star pattern. BBS honey comb's and others like it are too busy for me (my personal opinion =) With the side louvers, door scoops and the other lines of the car the simpler the wheel the better it looks. I've got Gotti 16" on my GTSi but I picked up an old set of HRE 5 star last winter and I'm getting them refinished. I don't like the gold accents of the Gotti's on my car. The last post with the 308 with spedlines I think is perfect. My HRE's when done will look almost exactly like that. Compomotive makes a wheel almost exaclty like that speedline and does any custom bolt pattern and offset you want. Saw a guy down in Elkhart Lake last year at the Brian Redamn chalenge he had 17" compo's on a GTB and they looked incredible! Don't know compomotive's web site off hand. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1767 Registered: 5-2001 |
Ran into my buddy's former 308 with the Speedline GTO style wheels today...these are the 17" ones, fit great, no rubbing, handling is very nice (when I drove it a couple years ago).  | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 951 Registered: 8-2002 |
Joe, did you buy those MM2+ wheels in the stock Ferrari bolt pattern of 5x108mm (5x4.25")? Also, where did you get them at that $119 price? Thanks | ||
| Frank Wiedmann (Frankieferrari)
Junior Member Username: Frankieferrari Post Number: 120 Registered: 8-2003 |
I had a '75 vette coupe, that I got several years ago,that had wires and "knock-off's" on it, and IT looked really good with them on it. And,not the same old,same old that EVERYBODY else has! | ||
| Frank Wiedmann (Frankieferrari)
Junior Member Username: Frankieferrari Post Number: 119 Registered: 8-2003 |
Yeah, I'd definitely have to see a picture before I made the move. But, see lots of 60's vettes with wire wheels on them. And, they have a sleek,low, "pointy front end" like a Ferrari, and they look good. Also,old Ferraris with the Borranis look great! I think it would give it a 1960's - 1970's old "sortscar look" to it. Maybe someone can find a picture of one, or make an altered one on the computer showing a 308 with wires? | ||
| Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1310 Registered: 12-2001 |
Dont put wire wheels on a 308 I saw one, it even had knock offs. I nearly tossed my cookies. | ||
| Frank Wiedmann (Frankieferrari)
Junior Member Username: Frankieferrari Post Number: 109 Registered: 8-2003 |
Also,those wheels all looked great! Thanks for the replies and ideas. Still curious as to what a 308 would look like with some nice wire wheels on it,though! | ||
| Frank Wiedmann (Frankieferrari)
Junior Member Username: Frankieferrari Post Number: 107 Registered: 8-2003 |
Scott, No,we're talking about Geneva,IL.-about 35 miles west of Chicago,along the Fox River. So,your'e talking about another hour drive south from Lake Geneva,WI,. What part of Northern Wisconsin? I have an old school bud who owns a nice resort in Eagle River, and my wife has alot of relatives in Lacrosse area. (and my Grandfather is originally from Wakefield,UP,Michigan, but now lives outside of Milwaukee-southern Wi.) | ||
| Joe Craven (Rscapri2600)
New member Username: Rscapri2600 Post Number: 50 Registered: 7-2002 |
These are Mille Miglia mm11 plus wheels. They are availabe in various offsets, sizes,widths. The trick is to find all the necessary combinations that will fit your Ferrari. Most of my research involved around my Mondial, which seems to be easier to find wheels as compared to the smaller offset 3x8 series. The standard Ferrari cap doesn't fit because the bore is too small. I temporarily used duct tape to build up the center dia. and used wire tie holders on the inside of the wheel. It looks good, I might just leave it as is. These wheels are available in offsets from 15mm to 40mm. Sizes range from 16x8 to 17x8.5. I was also looking at some FondMetal wheels which would have looked great on my Mondial. I was able to find rear wheels stocked in the US that would have fit my Mondial's rears perfectly. I needed a bit more offset in the front and although I was able to determine that FondMetal made them, nobody imported those specific sizes (happened to fit the Jaguar S type) into the US. The distributor was considering to import them for me, but didn't have no idea how many months it would take for me to receive them. I ended up buying the 16x7 wheels made by 1000 Miglia since they were so cheap. I thought I'd use them while I ordered the 17x8" FondMetal's from Italy. The Mille Miglia wheels look so good, I'm thinking to just keep them. The factory lug bolts are too long for the thinner hub of these aftermarket wheels. I've temporarily installed the rears on my car with 7mm spacers and factory Ferrari lug bolts. The fronts are going to align perfectly under the front fender and would protrude slightly if I installed spacers. I ordered some Gorilla brand 14mm lug bolts which are slighly shorter than my oem bolts. BTW, I like the look of the rears with spacers so I might keep them installed with the spacers. I can barely wait to get the fronts on my car, they will look so good. 85 Mondial, soon with aftermarket wheels. | ||
| Scott Anderson (Srandrsn)
Junior Member Username: Srandrsn Post Number: 176 Registered: 4-2001 |
Bob & Frank, Are you talking about Lake Geneva, WI on the 13th? Is there something going on there? I live in northern WI and if there's a show or meet or something I'd drive down, Thanks | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 937 Registered: 7-2001 |
I have 16" Gotti's on mine (check profile) with Dunlop SP 8000's. These tires are 1 step below "ultra high performance" meaning their sidewalls are not too stiff and will give you good tire life. | ||
| Lee Hamner (Tennlee)
Junior Member Username: Tennlee Post Number: 192 Registered: 2-2002 |
Here's another angle on 16" Speedlines on my 308.  | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 944 Registered: 8-2002 |
If you go to 17" wheels but with smaller diameter tires, you could end up with the same diamater overall so no problem with speedometer calibration. The wheels at www.GAredcars.com are actually limited production Mille Miglia wheels that look like 550 wheels and also look like the pictures that Sean posted -- note even the curvature (concave) of the rears versus the fronts. However, these are only available in 16" with stock width and offset. I'd like them in 17". Joe Craven: What specific model and size did you buy in the Mille Migila, and how did you have to "adapt" your center caps? Also, are there no offset issues for you on your car with those wheels?  | ||
| Russ Turner (Snj5)
Member Username: Snj5 Post Number: 430 Registered: 2-2003 |
Another source for wheels in Georgia: www.GaRedcars.com The Speedlines on the GTB look good - The GTB is so elegant with the flowing roofline - also noticed that the car has what look to be 348 or aftermarket seats I am looking at tires as well, and one that stands out as offering a lot seems to be the Yokohama ES-100 balancing a lot of plusses. If handling only concern would look at Pilot Sports. While I am more fond of older cars, I am somehow radically convinced that the latest in tire/rubber technology is the only way to go for ride, handling and safetly. best rt | ||
| PeterS (Peters)
Intermediate Member Username: Peters Post Number: 1412 Registered: 1-2003 |
Frank..This is your lucky day! It just so happens that I have been trying to dump,..I mean find a pigeon..I mean PERSON to buy my exquisit gold honneycomb 16" Gotti's to help me offset the price of five-stars! Check out my bio, the pic is there. Such a deal | ||
| Joe Craven (Rscapri2600)
New member Username: Rscapri2600 Post Number: 47 Registered: 7-2002 |
Sean, those wheels look like Mille Miglia wheels. I just bought 4 for my 85 Mondial. $119 each but I had to purchase and adapt my own center caps. I'm waiting for the Gorilla lug bolts, special order from Summit Racing for about $60 20 lugs. 85 Mondial | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1766 Registered: 5-2001 |
The 17" speedline GTO style wheels work fine; a buddy/neighbor of mine had them and they worked great. No rubbing or calibration issues. Hell, that mechanic doesn't know what he is talking about, since the speedo sender works off the transmission, not the wheel! | ||
| Frank Wiedmann (Frankieferrari)
Junior Member Username: Frankieferrari Post Number: 103 Registered: 8-2003 |
Thank-you,Sean. Those ARE definitely some sharp looking wheels,and very affordable,too! Thanks again! | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 361 Registered: 2-2003 |
 These are 16" Speedline wheels. When I get a car, I'm going to buy a set and put them on. They're advertised in FORZA (can't recall the site right now) and I think they were ~$1200/set with bolts and Ferrari Center logos. | ||
| Frank Wiedmann (Frankieferrari)
Junior Member Username: Frankieferrari Post Number: 100 Registered: 8-2003 |
Thanks,Bob. I am also looking forward to meeting you at Geneva. Hey,were you at the Oakbrook polo club show in June? We were there with our 308 in the (old) 8 cylinder section. I went there with my little guy,6 year old Frankie,Jr. And my wife and daughter followed us there in her P.T.Cruiser(thats what she wanted!) And,all 4 of us were sitting behind our car. We were facing south,( 31st.St.),towards the east end of the group. My license plate # is: N LUVN IT (as Maxwell Smart used to say..."And...Lovin' it!") I bet those GTO look wheels look sharp! I also own a 288GTO,unfortunately,it's in 1:18 scale! | ||
| Thomas I (Wax)
Junior Member Username: Wax Post Number: 203 Registered: 7-2003 |
A slew of wheels, albeit, out of UK: http://www.performancewheelsupplies.ltd.uk/ferrari/main.htm However, I've often wondered what a 3-spoker would look like on a Ferrari. IMHO 3-spoke wheels make many vehicles look fantastic - therefore, 3-spokes shouldn't be limited to steering wheels. Anybody seen a set on a Ferrari other than Hot Wheels? | ||
| Frank Wiedmann (Frankieferrari)
Junior Member Username: Frankieferrari Post Number: 97 Registered: 8-2003 |
Also,what tires would anyone recommend? I always had Goodyears on all of the Corvettes that I have owned (7), but, have some Firestones on the '91 that is my daily driver. But,how about for my Ferrari? Should I stick with Michelins? Some HP Bridgestones? Don't need "top speed" tires. Don't drive my 22 year old 308 super fast. | ||
| Scott Anderson (Srandrsn)
Junior Member Username: Srandrsn Post Number: 174 Registered: 4-2001 |
Frank, Check out www.ecstuning.com I got some wheels bolts from them and the also make spacers. They could probably make/have some that convert the 5x108mm ferrari pattern to a more universal pattern so then you'd have some more choices of wheels and offsets. Just a thought | ||
| Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Member Username: Bob308gts Post Number: 741 Registered: 9-2001 |
I have Speedline 16" on my 79 308 a 288GTO almost type wheel, tires are 225/50 and 245/45. Don't have a pic handy but you can check them out in Geneva on the 13th | ||
| Frank Wiedmann (Frankieferrari)
Junior Member Username: Frankieferrari Post Number: 94 Registered: 8-2003 |
I own an '81-308GTSi. I am looking for some new wheels for it. Want to store the 14" Chromodoras and Michelins, and go up to,probably a 16" wheel. I saw a 308,once,with 17" Speedlines (looked like TR wheels). But,was told by a Ferrari service manager that I probably wouldn't want to go up to a 17" wheel,due to speedometer,calibration problems,etc...And, don't want TOO big of wheels,so that it looked like it belonged in a rap video!(grin!) I would be satisfied with a 16" wheel. Questions; First,what size tires would I need with the 16"s?, To make the actual diameter of the new,bigger wheel and lower profile tire be about the same diameter as the existing wheels and tires. Second; Wheel choices. I see alot of 308's going with wheels that look like 355 and 360 wheels. They do look nice, but,as I said,see alot of them, already. Dont want anything too rad.( no "Cragar SS") I was even condidering some NICE,REAL wire wheels to give it a "classic old sportscar" look. I guess that Borrani's are out, due to the "center locking-knock-off" style. Does anyone out there know of any-NICE,REAL 16" wire wheels out there that will fit? Any of you guys good with computers (I'm not) who could post a picture of a Red 308 with wire wheels on it , so I can see what it would look like, if I would then even want to consider it? In my mind,I try to picture it,seems to look good,but a "real" picture would really make it a "yea" or "nay". Thanks alot for any input. I DO appreciate it! |