| Author | Message | ||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
Member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 761 Registered: 3-2002 |
Jeff it is more than just that. You are drawing a simple conclusion. Not everyone purchases a flashy watch for others to be amazed. One may also keep that flashy watch under their sleeve. BACK TO THE ORIGINAL POST: The LS-6 motor is a sophisticated engine when you look beyond the concept of the valve train. As you all know; it is not just an old 70's motor with a few upgrades. I say more power to the designers at GM for building this superb car. It is the stupid bean counters that hold back the designers from creating a complete masterpiece. It is unfortunate they do not offer an interior that has real quality. I am looking forward to them offering a 500 bhp car in the near future. I will probably want to seriously consider a real enjoyable Sunday AM driver. Just please at least bring the interior up to Ford standards. Amen. | ||
| billy zissis (89tr)
Member Username: 89tr Post Number: 283 Registered: 4-2001 |
/What does the Seiko say about the wearer? How about the Trendy Glitzy Watch? Last what image does the Rolex represent?/ This is the stuck up kind of image I hate in Ferrari owners. Rolex represents look at me look at me. I will never buy a Rolex because what good is it? Just for show? Isn't that a poseur? I would rather have a watch that tells the right time. I am not adding fuel to the fire but this is how I feel--and yes I own not one but 2 ferraris and while I don't believe that Ferrari lost its edge with the 512 TR I do believe they lost their edge after the 355 series (IMO the last true Ferrari) I don't care much for the Enzo-wish I had its power though but in the looks department it does nothing for me. | ||
| billy zissis (89tr)
Member Username: 89tr Post Number: 282 Registered: 4-2001 |
The Esprit is a super reliable car and the tranny holds up fine. Do drag starts on any Ferrari and see how much it holdsn up. I drove 3 different Esprits on a daily basis and never had a problem. Right now I am redoin g the whole motor on mine as it will be pushing over 550hp. I just cant believe how long this thread got. Would you guys please put some water in your wine? I drove the Z06 and the corvette is a world class car. I bought my F-car because it belongs in the upper level of cars-so when a civic beats me hell yes I am bent out of shape. I mean this is a Ferrari dammit. Yeah I know I shouldn't race-racing only belongs on the track-yada yada yada. Ferrari has some rethinking to do. The time will come when all those who remember their glory years will come to pass and Ferrari can't sell cars on legend alone, I want the cars to perform. That is why if anyone asks me which is my favorite car that I own its the Lotus. I am not afraid to have a street race in the Lotus but hell I lost to Buick Regal (had NOS) in the 355 and I felt like sh*t. Yeah I know my car costs more, it's better around the corners, I'd rather have a Ferrari. They need to start getting some torque in their cars. 260 torque at 20,000 rpm don't cut in todays drivng. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 6576 Registered: 8-2002 |
LMAO...! Thank you, Dr. J. but i don't think i'm a FerrariChat favorite; i'm more like the FerrariChat tag-along that everyone tolerates... | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 471 Registered: 8-2002 |
Ferrari vs Corvette or Lambo? Think of it this way, you can buy a $100.00 Seiko(Corvette) watch it will keep better time than a Rolex Submarner, the Rolex will need to be wound every 72 hours or it will stop, it will also need to be serviced every few years for a couple hundred more, so why buy a Rolex? You can also buy a art deco glitzy flashy watch (Lambo) that tries too hard to out do the Rolex. What does the Seiko say about the wearer? How about the Trendy Glitzy Watch? Last what image does the Rolex represent? | ||
| Dr. J C928 (Attitude928)
Junior Member Username: Attitude928 Post Number: 84 Registered: 11-2002 |
Allan should be forgiven for any perceived or real defects. If I decided to put down the cash on a Diablo or Esprit, I would search through all of his posts (?987 ?x!x!). He's knowledgable & very entertaining (but in a different way than another F-chat favorite: DES) | ||
| Corey Feldman (Meatballs_4)
New member Username: Meatballs_4 Post Number: 3 Registered: 9-2003 |
Allan, do you drive the Lotus everyday? How many miles have you put on it so far? I heard that the renault gearboxes suck and they can't really handle that much extra power. I saw that there was a race ecu available that gives you some 100 horses, have you done any modifcations to your car? Thanks for the responses | ||
| Frodo (Sparkytheclown)
New member Username: Sparkytheclown Post Number: 1 Registered: 9-2003 |
goi | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1422 Registered: 1-2002 |
Jon ; Jamie: Re: best motoring. First and foremost , Best Motoring is motorsport as entertainment, but that's not really the issue. What should be pointed out is that the drivers that drive in the best motorsing, option, option 2 , rev hard, carboy vids, etc. are all competent drivers (jgtc, touring car, formula nippon, and some are f3000 and f3 drivers), but the fact that the japanese cars dominated simply speaks to the drivers familiarity of the machinery under them; i.e., the r34 came in 1st. No suprise as they've all got more seat time with their domestic cars than they do with the porsche, gt 2, etc. So, take the results of that vid (which I've seen) with a grain of salt. ps: if it's the vid. w/ the white 360, then you can tell that that gan-san is really green with the 360, and has some trouble adjusting to it, at speed. | ||
| MarkPDX (Markpdx)
Member Username: Markpdx Post Number: 692 Registered: 4-2003 |
 | ||
| Erik (Teenferrarifan)
Member Username: Teenferrarifan Post Number: 318 Registered: 2-2003 |
Allan almost to 1000 the countdown is now 12. Way to go this thread is almost there. Come on say something else useless in your next 12 posts don't make them any different then the other 988. Erik | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 988 Registered: 6-2002 |
Ah Paul, i suspect you were picked on in school. Bullied around, kicked in the face, etc. Sorry to hear that. | ||
| Paul Loussia (Bumboola)
Junior Member Username: Bumboola Post Number: 185 Registered: 3-2003 |
Allan, if your driving is as good as your spelling, I'm glad we're now protected by a large body of water. F-ing moron. | ||
| Jaime T. Ferraris are sex on wheels (Chevarri)
Junior Member Username: Chevarri Post Number: 174 Registered: 1-2003 |
Jon, FYI I saved you 4 dollars on the vid, if that matters to you. Most other places were for 25, ah well. IMO, those BM vids are fantastic, but the guy translating always has an annoying voice Yes the Z06 doesnt rev to 9k, but I was implying 5.7L/Pushrods CAN rev to 9k, and produce more hp for the same amount of cash as a 360s mtr. I still find it hard to believe that an LS6 will be more expensive to maintain that a 360s 3.6L in the long run. Yes, I do know about difference in JP vers seems we were refering to different thing. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 987 Registered: 6-2002 |
My Lotus has been problem free. Theyre great cars, weakest link is the tranny. Dont powershift and youll be fine. Lots of upgrades available, not only help power substantially but actually increase reliability. 2 such upgrades are intercoolers and blow off valves. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 986 Registered: 6-2002 |
Some of you spend way too much time with my picture. Hmmm lets see, girlie Ferraris, pics of guys..... Ahhhh now i understand why you fruitloops like Ferraris soo much! | ||
| Corey Feldman (Meatballs_4)
New member Username: Meatballs_4 Post Number: 2 Registered: 9-2003 |
Allan, just messing with you about the z06 vs Lotus stuff. I'm actually thinking about getting a 98 esprit in the next month. How is your Lotus holding up and how many miles a year do you put on it? I will probably drive the car everyday and I'm kinda wondering about the reliability, after all Lotus is notorious for being unreliable. Is the maintenance expensive? My last daily driver was a nsx and I'm sure the Lotus won't be as problem free. | ||
| Paul Loussia (Bumboola)
Junior Member Username: Bumboola Post Number: 184 Registered: 3-2003 |
 You're damn good, Mark | ||
| MarkPDX (Markpdx)
Member Username: Markpdx Post Number: 689 Registered: 4-2003 |
 | ||
| Pat Pasqualini (Enzo)
Intermediate Member Username: Enzo Post Number: 1019 Registered: 2-2002 |
Ellen do you have to go and take an asprin after coming up with that one? | ||
| Pat Pasqualini (Enzo)
Intermediate Member Username: Enzo Post Number: 1018 Registered: 2-2002 |
Funny Ellen left that piece out | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 985 Registered: 6-2002 |
Pat, that picture of me and your mom is supposed to be private! Come on down Ernesto! Love to meet up and talk about your model collection. | ||
| Kevin (Jammy)
Junior Member Username: Jammy Post Number: 115 Registered: 3-2002 |
Interesting factlet behind that Top Gear magazine cover: the 911 Turbo and 360M weren't the only things that yellow Gallardo blew away; it blew away it's clutch too. That car was in Lamborghini London last week, due a trip back to the factory after Jeremy Clarkson had it on loan for one of his videos BTW I like Lambos too, but don't have much time for pissing contests. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 6569 Registered: 8-2002 |
PAT- ROTFLMAO...!!! | ||
| Bruce Wellington (Bws88tr)
Advanced Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 2951 Registered: 4-2002 |
AMEN PAT  | ||
| Pat Pasqualini (Enzo)
Intermediate Member Username: Enzo Post Number: 1016 Registered: 2-2002 |
 | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 6568 Registered: 8-2002 |
Ernesto, bring your own... a 1:18 cup of coffee will never satisfy you... | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1720 Registered: 2-2001 |
Allan, I will be in Hawaii in January. Please invite me over to your house for a cup of coffee... Ernesto John, how about preparing NO excuses? If you have to make excuses for what you like, perhaps you should rethink your purchasing a Mondial. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 6566 Registered: 8-2002 |
"HaHa" Allan, i don't "have" to borrow one; in fact, i've NEVER borrowed one; in fact, i've never even asked ANYONE if i could even SIT in their Ferrari, let alone drive it... Any extreme pleasure i've ever had to either ride in or drive a Ferrari was by the hands of the owner. You're so quick to try put someone down but it's obvious that you're JUST THAT STUPID to not even see that you're not even putting me down... | ||
| John Do'h (Combover)
Junior Member Username: Combover Post Number: 139 Registered: 8-2003 |
While I don't yet own a Ferrari, I am currently looking for a Mondial, which we all know is not the speediest (though I like it). Since I know it's slow, I have prepared the following list of excuses. "But those performance times aren't important" "But on a different track/driver/tires, the Ferrari would be faster" "Lambo might be faster, but it weighs more!" "Lambo/Vette might be faster, but you don't drive it that fast." "Yeah, but the Enzo will beat that."(Although I do need a response when they bring up the decade old Mclaren) "Ferrari's got 'heritage'" "Ferrari has more power per litre" "Lambo/Vette just have bigger engines" "Lambo makes tractors" "Chevy makes crappy cars" "You're just proving my ferrari is slower because you don't like them" Please let me know what else I should be arguing-thanks. | ||
| Erik (Teenferrarifan)
Member Username: Teenferrarifan Post Number: 316 Registered: 2-2003 |
allan has fun drag racing those 5.0 mustangs right? Erik | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 984 Registered: 6-2002 |
Haha Des, want to impress me? Buy a Spider, and not have to borrow one. Then ill tell everyone you beat me in a Pinto. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 983 Registered: 6-2002 |
Ernesto, lets get something straight. When track events were available, i went to them. Ive had my cars at track events. In florida, several years back at italia fest, and several times in my Porsche. In Arizona, i was interested in doing track events but after speaking with the Arizona Ferrari club pres, he informed there was not enough interest from the F-car owners to do them. I also used to play with my buddies shifter carts in Fla. Want a workout, try one of those. Sorry, if i dont have the time to drive cross country to race my car. In Hawaii, first thing i did was find out if they have a track. They dont, but theyre starting an SCCA club, in which i will run the 355. | ||
| Erik (Teenferrarifan)
Member Username: Teenferrarifan Post Number: 315 Registered: 2-2003 |
Come on guys, we all know allan just did this so he would have something to post to get to 1000 posts. Erik | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 6565 Registered: 8-2002 |
F--- this crap, i'll let Ernesto, Jon & Chris handle the intelligent part of the argument; Allan, as it stands, i'll still beat you around a track in whatever car you listed below... Hell i'll do it in a spider- something a little looser... i won't even wear a helmet- you're hard-headed enough for the both of us... | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1719 Registered: 2-2001 |
Allan we are talking about YOU, not magazine drivers, factory drivers, etc etc. For all the crap that comes out of your mouth, you should be prepared to back it up. But you're not. You are just a poser who likes to talk and quote magazine articles. What good is the car if you dont use it? In theory maybe it'll do what you claim it does, but YOU will never do it. It's all talk. When somebody challenges you, you just scan a magazine article and say "Im faster." Well, you're really not unless YOU do it. Keep posing..... Perhaps you should stick to Cadillacs.... Ernesto | ||
| Clax (Clax)
Junior Member Username: Clax Post Number: 125 Registered: 10-2002 |
Not to dis the Vette, but a pushrod engine in 2003/2004? C'mon... | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 981 Registered: 6-2002 |
Des, you caught me!lol | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Intermediate Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 1047 Registered: 8-2001 |
Jamie, Just ordered the tape! I have a few similar videos from the same company. Will give you my feedback! One note...the car tested by them was a Japanese spec Evo 7, not a US spec Evo 8. I am sure you are aware of the Japanese government's 280 hp power output limit. The Japanese spec Nissans, Mitsus, Subarus and such all make way more than the stated claims. Most of the Japanese spec Evo's in the UK dynoed at around 300 at the wheels, so with awd they must be making about 370-380 at the crank. Not the same as a US spec engine. Case in point..I owned a 300ZX TT and drove a Japanese spec one in Japan back in 1995. The Japanese car felt much faster than my US spec car which was quoted at 300. The Japanese spec car (which was quoted at 278) must have had at least 25 hp on my car maybe more. And as far as spinning a ZO6 to 9000 rpms, that ain't a NASCAR motor anymore than a 3.6 360 engine is an F1 motor which spins to 19,0000 rpm. I am still waiting for a US magazine test that shows the 360 beat by a Scooby, Evo or other on a real race track driven by real races. The 360 weighs less, is more aerodynamic, has a lower center of gravity, is midengine, and has anywhere from 100-125 hp more than the US Evo or Scooby. Anyway, sounds like David S. just laid this all to rest. Regards, Jon | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 980 Registered: 6-2002 |
Des the Keyword here is "IF". If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. So lets see, every time this debate happens, we go to track talk. Ill race you or youll race me, and we all know that will never happen. Did i already concede that an F40 is a better track car than a Diablo? Yes i did. When lap times are posted of Lamborghinis at Nurburgring posting better times than Ferraris by a professional driver, those are dismissed. When others write about lesser cars beating Ferraris theyre full of it. When magazines choose other cars over Ferraris they are full of it. Sounds like denial to me. Lets not forget, i own a Ferrari. Do you think i like to lose in it? Dont you think id rather say both my Ferrari and Lamborghini are awesome? Lets see here, Brandshatch, Evo Magazine. 575M vs 911(regular, not turbo or gt3) and an STI. STI lost to the 575 by .20 seconds, while the 911 beat it by 1 full second. Uh oh, call the police, theyre lying again! Ferrari wins F1! Cant be true! | ||
| Dan Gordon (Ferruccio)
Junior Member Username: Ferruccio Post Number: 217 Registered: 2-2003 |
I don't know about you guys but I kind of like the riverly between Lambos and Ferraris. Makes it more fun to like your marque. Just like if everyone wanted the Chiefs (i live in KS) to win it wouldn't be as fun when they did. I think Allen takes it a bit to far but he is VERY knowleageable about Lamborghinis. I have talked to him in several groups and he does know what he is talking about. | ||
| Clax (Clax)
Junior Member Username: Clax Post Number: 124 Registered: 10-2002 |
Allow me to jump in on the Lambo versus Ferrari stuff (despite the fact that this thread is supposed to be about the Z06 & 360). I am a fan of automobiles. I don't care what country they come from, their purpose, or their price. Certain vehicles are appealing for certain needs, and inspire different emotions in everyone. Given that, I am a fan of Lambo, and Ferrari. I am not a fan of those who insist on bashing the other to feel better about themselves. That said, some of you may be aware that I currently own a 360 Spider and have a Gallardo on order that is scheduled to arrive in October. I have eagerly anticipated the launch of the Gallardo in Geneva, the testing of the vehicle in the auto publications, and the arrival of the pre-production vehicles at the dealer level. Based on the specs alone, who wouldn't be excited about the Gallardo? 500hp, lighter and nimbler than the Murci, sure to perform better than the 360 and 911, etc. But, I recently have cancelled my order. Why? The car doesn't do it for me. Other than the performance factor, and the Lambo badge, there's not much more that excites me. I really want to like the car, but it just hasn't inspired any emotion in me. Quite frankly, if I wanted a Lambo now, I'd rather spend the money on the Murci. But I love my 360, and spending the extra $100K seems like a waste, especially considering that I have to give up the convertible factor. I love the drop-top. Nothing better on a perfect summer day. Ya sure, another 100hp+ would be nice. But, to me, the Gallardo doesn't do it (for my taste). Anybody want a yellow metallic e-gear Gallardo with black interior? | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 6564 Registered: 8-2002 |
LOL, Bruce... Allan, none of us are idiots and your lame attempt at something akin to reverse psychology is too poorly executed to even look like it might work... We all know the root of your intentions with your posts goes back to Lamborghinis... Your constant upbraiding of Ferrari, Ferrari owners, Ferrari history, etcetera is due to your insecurities... How your Lamborghini ownership is tied into this is beyond me but i really don't care... It's easily discernable, though, that you're constantly putting down Ferraris just to make Lamborghini look better... You're a scar on the marque. | ||
| Bruce Wellington (Bws88tr)
Advanced Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 2948 Registered: 4-2002 |
STAY IN HAWAII, IF THATS WHERE YOU ARE.............................. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1718 Registered: 2-2001 |
Allan the genius, I'm not "argueing" about anything. If you were talking about Corvettes, why did you post a scan of a magazine with the Lambo on the cover? Go back to your litle make-belief world of magazines and statistics racing.... Ernesto | ||
| Bruce Wellington (Bws88tr)
Advanced Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 2947 Registered: 4-2002 |
AND HERE COMES BRUCE......SO WHAT........... | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 979 Registered: 6-2002 |
And here comes Ernesto and his 1:18 collection! We're not argueing about Lambos beaing faster here, we all know that already. Now we're talking about the Corvette. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 6562 Registered: 8-2002 |
LOL, Allan, even if my Saturn was in running condition, i still wouldn't bring it... Any idiot in a Diablo could get around a track faster than Schumacher could in my Saturn... Give me a 360, a 'Vette, a Lotus, a Porsche, a 355 - whatever you put down in this thread and i'll beat you around a track in it. Hell, gimme Chris' F40 and i'll beat you in THAT and i'd rather do it in the 355 as the F40 is too much of a beast for me to try to reckon with... i'd have to go SLOWER in the F40 and i'm sure i'd STILL beat you in it... So sad that i have a Saturn and you have a Diablo (amongst other things) and i could give your cars better attention than you can... Dump the Diablo and the 355 and the Lotus and whatever else you have and get a Civic and do quarter mile times until your daddy calls you home for dinner... Exotics don't seem to be your thing. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1717 Registered: 2-2001 |
Oh my god... I leave for a few days and Allan the magazine driver returns... Keep posting your magazine articles and bragging about the supreme speed of the Lambos, but we all know you have never set foot on a track and only race teenagers in supercharged mustangs on the street to feel superior... Go back to bragging about your alleged possessions on the pre-teen forums elsewhere... The ultimate poser is back! I bet any decent driver with a 308 can take you on the track... hahaahahah Ernesto | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 978 Registered: 6-2002 |
Haha, Des, the man WITH ABSOLUTELY NO CAR EXPERIENCE sure has alot to say! lol Yes Des, bring on your Saturn with Ferrari emblems! | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 6559 Registered: 8-2002 |
LMAO...! Allan, have you ever turned the wheel of your cars to any noticeable degree, at speed...? Chris has track experience and although he (in his own words) may not be the fastest or the best driver, i have absolutely NO TRACK EXPERIENCE and i'm pretty sure i'd wipe my ass with you in any of the cars you've put down in this thread, around a track... You want straight line speed...? Go pop a pill... You want some anti-Ferrari monthly news letters mailed to your house...? This isn't the place to register for that... Take Chris up on his statement... Make him put his money where his skills are... i'm almost positive he'll wipe his ass with you, too and i've never met him and only spoke to him via email once... If your driving skills are anything like your personality, i wouldn't be surprised if your license was revoked. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 977 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hey lookie here!  | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 976 Registered: 6-2002 |
So Paul the putz, YOUR 360 won F1? Or did another car, completely unlike yours win? Im going to go buy a Honda now, and also put "F1 Champ" on it, so i can be like you! As for not owning a Murcielago, well your right, but i am flying to Honolulu tonight to look at one, so maybe tommorow..... Your ABSOLUTELY wrong on the scales. Scales that were used to weigh the car i quoted measure the car at all four corners in order to adjust the suspension. Scale is completely DEAD ON. So get back in your little girlie 360 and be careful pulling up to Corvettes in that WEENIE MOBILE. | ||
| Charles Brading (Austin308)
Junior Member Username: Austin308 Post Number: 61 Registered: 6-2003 |
Would like to add just one thought to this thread. Wich car had the woman in it UHMMM. | ||
| Paul Loussia (Bumboola)
Junior Member Username: Bumboola Post Number: 183 Registered: 3-2003 |
Allan, Being the tractor pull champ that you are, did you ever think that the porky curb weight listed does NOT include driver? Well, it doesn't, and I know this for a fact. And F1champ refers to the car, not the driver. But then again, you wouldn't know that from hanging around at the drag strip, would you? Double-chinned moron. The Murcielago may be awesome, but you don't have one. Tom, Even in the specs YOU listed, the 360 kills the Evo and STi in acceleration. I'm not trying to knock the cars, just trying to straighten out the facts. I admire all performance cars. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 973 Registered: 6-2002 |
Clax, i hate to break it to you, but ive raced a few 360's in the Lotus, and yes they do lose. Around a track, i dont know, on the street, i do. | ||
| Mfennell70 (Mfennell70)
Junior Member Username: Mfennell70 Post Number: 167 Registered: 7-2001 |
To add a little more fuel: An LS6 is not sophisticated in a gee-whiz sales brochure sense but the basic design has been refined out the wazoo. It is naive to think it's not advanced just because it doesn't have cams whirring on top of the engine. It weighs something like 500lbs (492?) with all accessories and is likely *smaller* in external volume than the 3.6L Ferrari engine. If one were to consider both engines in a black box sense, looking at only weight, output, fuel consumption, physical volume but ignoring architecture and country of origin, I think a certain non-italian product would look pretty good. I still like screaming small displacement engines though. | ||
| David Stoeppelwerth (Racerdj)
Member Username: Racerdj Post Number: 361 Registered: 1-2003 |
This thread really amuses me. The comments from non owners of 360's and ZO6 are easy for me to spot. Look at my profile and I do have credibility as I have both cars covered. There is no comparison between the two. On any track any day the 360 would be faster driven by me. I used to race Vintage Formula Atlantics (1977 March/Cosworth) even at Road America. Write on, I need more entertainment. | ||
| Jaime T. Ferraris are sex on wheels (Chevarri)
Junior Member Username: Chevarri Post Number: 173 Registered: 1-2003 |
I would have to agree with TIM on the similarity between ricers and SOME Fcar owners. "It's a low tech motor, that makes up for lack of engineering ingenuity by displacement" It was mainly the "low tech" comment that got me, and immeadiatly reminded me of all the Civic owners whipping out their calculator saying that they have more efficent motor, because it makes more HP per liter. Larger CID motors naturally make more more hp and tq than a smaller CID mtr. That 3.6 makes its "efficent" 400 hp because it has to, smaller CID mtrs need to spin more to generate more hp! 9kR can be achieved through a 350 and NASCAR does it almost all day long, and they produce over 700hp, and shift at its 9k red sometime 9.2k. So sayin it cant be done is false. Granted it wont be the smoothest riding engine, but it can be done for as much as your 360s engine. "Baloney, what track?? What Mazda, Subaru, or Mitsu? The Evo 8, Mazdaspeed Protoge, and even the STi will never outhandle a 360 or pull it anywhere on a track. " I saw a video of the Best Motoring program where they finally got to test a 996 Turbo, 360 Modena, Corvette Z51(should have tested a Z06), Skyline GT-R V spec II, Lancer EVO VII, NSX Type S. The 360 got destroyed, and the Vette got raped! Vette came in last, and the 360 came in 5th of 6th! The test was performed at Sugo. If I remember the order of the finish it was Skyline First, 911 second, Evo 3rd, NSX 4th, 360 5th, Vette dead last. The 360 came in about 6 secs behind the pack, and the Vette came in about 10sec. Some of you may say thats not much difference, but for those who know 6 secs is pretty big gap. When I first saw the vid I was shocked the 360 got destroyed, I was almost positive it would come in at least 3rd. If you dont believe me you can go buy it http://store.performancecardvds.com/bemoinvo3vhs.html | ||
| John Do'h (Combover)
Junior Member Username: Combover Post Number: 136 Registered: 8-2003 |
"Does anyone else notice the similarity between ricers and some fcar owners?" Tim: You are not alone, my friend. | ||
| Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Member Username: Tbakowsky Post Number: 623 Registered: 9-2002 |
Paul...I'm not attacking the 360. The 360 is a wonderful car, and a super fun car to drive. But to really use the power band of the engine to it's fullest you really can only do it on a track or on an empty street. I know the ferrari's are not drag cars. You have know idea how many times I have told owners this. But the fact remaines for day to day driving and stop light to stop light fun (please don't tell me you have NEVER done this) you will get beat. Ferrari's once in the power band you will have a hard time finding anything that will keep up. But if you go up against a vette,wrx, evo, etc on the street then you will be left behind. The main reason is because the guy in the WRX is not scared to "give it" Were most people in Ferrari's are scared to "give it" maybe not you but most are. As far as being full of it..If thats what you think then you are more then welcome to your thoughts. I don't have the time to fight with a closed mined individual in an internet chat room. If you want to discuss me being full of it then e-mail me and we can discuss further. | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 712 Registered: 5-2002 |
Tim, A lot of what you're saying is right, but...smaller engines weigh less, take less space in the car, and lower the mass center. A 360 is a few hunder pounds lighter than a vette, lower CG and has better less polar moment. Is it worth an extra $100K for very slight improvements? I guess that's a personal choice, niether answer is wrong. On the street the only differance is looks since you can't drive either of them anywhere near the limit and that is the only place to see the performance differances. I'll still keep my old "slow" 308 because it is a wonderful machine and I just love it. It has plenty of short comings, and I go look and test drive other cars, but I haven't found anything that would make me write a check. It turns out that I like working on my car and it gives me plenty of opportunies.JMO | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Intermediate Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 1070 Registered: 4-2002 |
Point of reference: Vette can get ~30 MPG by having a 6th gear that is so tall that it is useless for top speed or for acceleration. If 6th gear in an F360/F355... were 1/2 the ratio of 4th gear, the F360/F355 would also be able to get ~28 MPH on the hiway. This has NOTHING to do with either air/fuel ratios, nor the energy economy of pushrod engines. "When i said efficient i meant it makes the same power using less fuel." When making 405 HP it is consuming (within a couple of percent) the fuel a F360 engine consumes while making 395 HP. When run in top gear, the Vette would have to pull north of 260 MPH to rev out in 6th, while F360 actually does rev out in 6th. When driving down the road at constant 70 MPH it is only turning 1700 RPMs while the F360 is closer to 2900 RPMs. It is the TQ of the 350 cid and the LOW r3eving CAM that allows this engine to pull 70 at just-off-idle. So what you are looking at is a comparison where contender V is operating at its peak efficiency operating point, while contender F is no where close to is peak operating envelope. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Intermediate Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 1611 Registered: 8-2001 |
Jonas, I think the Lambo guys are here because of the lack of postings over at Lambochat.com. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Intermediate Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 1610 Registered: 8-2001 |
I certainly don't feel threatened in my 360. The Z06 is a nice car but I like the 360 much more. What's wrong with that? | ||
| Jonas Petersen (Karsten335)
Member Username: Karsten335 Post Number: 578 Registered: 11-2002 |
Allan - Why are you even on this board? - You are always saying how bad and ugly Ferrari's are, and how great ALL Lambo's are. This really isn't the right place to say these things, as they are only your opinion and not many here shares that opoinion. It's a matter of individual taste wich cars you like. Just because you don't like the 550, 456 and 360 doesnt mean others dont. And you opionion isn't necessarely the right one. Not attacking you, just saying that your approach is a little off. | ||
| Clax (Clax)
Junior Member Username: Clax Post Number: 123 Registered: 10-2002 |
So, the Lotus beats the Z06, but the 360 does not. Riiiiiiiiight. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Advanced Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 3411 Registered: 6-2001 |
I dont see why people always come back with the argument "well the 360 has a smaller engine, so its better than the Z06 with its big engine." of "well it has a much higher specific output..." or "Its a ferrari, its not about speed"(then why buy a sportscar in the 1st place??) The fact that ferrari gets so much power out of a small engine only shows ferrari's stupidity. Why use a small engine when a bigger one will give you better fuel economy, better drivability from the added torque, more reliability AND 5X longer service intervals which will be 10 times LESS expensive??? Seems pretty foolish to use such a small engine now, eh? Whats makes the 360's 3.6L engine that makes 400hp and 275 lbft of torque better than the corvette's 5.7L with 405hp and 400 ftlb ot torque? The corvette isnt just about straight lines like someone said either. getting back to allans original post, i dont see why some people have such a hard time admitting that the z06 is faster. It reminds me alot of ricers in civics who refuse to admit that certain cars are faster, but when they are beat, they make up excuses. Does anyone else notice the similarity between ricers and some fcar owners? Also, dont be mad at allan because hes right. | ||
| Mark Moon (Enzomoon)
Member Username: Enzomoon Post Number: 288 Registered: 4-2002 |
Once again, a thread started by Allan The Idiot designed to create controversy. I for one think the Vette Z06 is an excellent performance car and I was very impressed when I was in one on the track some time ago. However, if I want to hear/read what the Vette owners think I will visit their site myself. Allan only posted the link because of course the comments on their site will naturally pump up their car and degrade the Fcar. Allan changes his position relative to Ferraris to suit whatever argument he is engaged in at the time. The point is that Ferrari enthusiasts who frequent this site can't be expected to be happy with all the negative and inflammatory remarks either made by Mr. Fiedler or pointed out by him. He knew very well that the thread on the Vette forum was not complimentary of the 360...thats why he posted it, pure and simple. For some reason he gets a thrill over all this. Very pathetic. | ||
| ty (360mode)
Junior Member Username: 360mode Post Number: 179 Registered: 9-2002 |
"The Murcielago is awesome, something that cant be said for your 360." whew, thanks for clearing that up - for a while there i thought both cars were pretty awesome. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 972 Registered: 6-2002 |
Paul, being the F1 Champ that you are, did you maybe think that when Car and Driver weighs the car it includes driver? Moron. The Murcielago is awesome, something that cant be said for your 360. | ||
| Paul Loussia (Bumboola)
Junior Member Username: Bumboola Post Number: 182 Registered: 3-2003 |
Wrong. The local scale where Car and Driver weighs their cars is dead accurate. http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=6736&page_number=3 Allan, there is a local plastic surgeon who just took delivery of a bright green Murcielago. I hate to admit it, but that car is jaw-droppingly stunning. It is THE color to get, for visual impact it can't be beat. The guys a putz though and can't drive worth a ••••. Kind of like you. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 969 Registered: 6-2002 |
Brian, Ferrari has not made a "work of art" in many many years. The Murcielago looks like a 360 in what way? I figured it out, you must be blind. The 360 is one of the worst designs to come from Ferrari (along with the 550/575 and 456). The worst part of the 360 is the front fenders. Absolutely hideous. The 550/575 is about as inspiring as a Toyota Supra, and i wont comment on the hideous 456. Ferrari's such as the F40 and 512 were art. Lamborghinis are automotive art. As for my Lotus getting spanked by Z06's, im sorry but its just not true. Ive raced several, and stock for stock theyre virtually dead even through every gear right up to 160mph when we'd shut down. One did beat me, but the owner said he had exhaust, headers, intake and some computer mod. He beat me by about 2 cars to 100mph. The last one i raced said "02 Z06" on the license plate. Murcielago does not weigh 4000+ pds. My buddies did exhaust on one and weighed it on 4 point scales, with gas it was just over 3700pds. Still heavy, but works well enough to blow a 360 Modena into the weeds around the Nurburgring by close to 20 seconds. | ||
| Paul Loussia (Bumboola)
Junior Member Username: Bumboola Post Number: 181 Registered: 3-2003 |
Yes Brian, your 360CS will be a full 1000lbs lighter than a "Murcilotsaweight."  | ||
| Paul Loussia (Bumboola)
Junior Member Username: Bumboola Post Number: 180 Registered: 3-2003 |
Tom, You took figures from a comparision test between the STi and the Evo in the June 2003 Road and Track and plucked some numbers from the road test summary in the back of the magazine for the 360. That is not exactly what I would call a comparision test. Figures are taken from a different day, on a different surface, and at a different temperature. Fact is, the Evo spanked the STi at the race track in that test, and the Evo was spanked on a race track by the 360 (which came in first place) in a REAL comparision test from the June 2002 Road and Track. It was also beaten by the Lotus Elise, the 911 Turbo and a ZO6 in objective handling performance. There is NO WAY an Evo or STi would beat a 360 in acceleration or on a race track unless it was heavily modified. I will admit that they provide a lot of bang for the buck, but as Jon said, they are basically econo-boxes with some hot-rod parts. Fact is, you are full of it. |