| Author | Message | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
Brian: The guy who sponsored me on the Ducatis was Steve Wynne of Sports Racing Motorcycles (the guy who built Hailwood's Ducati). I've met Sheene, but I bet he doesn't remember me, I wasn't in his league, although I had one good day and beat his nemisis, Roberts, at a little track called Vacaville, California in the early 70s. Dave: The Suzuki 750 that I raced was a 944cc. It got that way with a big bore and a stroker crank. It was a duplicate of the bike that my client and friend Steve McLaughlin won Daytona on. I didn't keep any of the older Suzukis, just the Harris Ducati, which hasn't been run since 90. One of these days, I'll take it apart clean it up, and fix what is needed, and hang it on the wall somewhere. Gary Nixon is an interesting guy, that H1R that he raced was Irv Kanemoto's child. It is the same bike that Roberts rode at Vacaville the day I beat him. It is also the same bike that my friend Jerry Greene won 5 of 6 national junior events. It bet we do know a lot of the same people. I still represent John Ulrich in his magazine, Roadracing World, and I helped him out with his problem with Terry Vance when American Roadracing attempted to fire John. He's now on the AMA board, and I suspect that the old school is looking at major trouble. | ||
| Brian stewart (Eurocardoc)
|
Art, you may know my old acquaintance, Barry Sheene? Many of my idols/heroes are/were bike racers. I worked with Surtees for 3 years, in F1, and think he is a great man. I just get goose bumps about Mike the Bike, he has a great life story, sad ending. Barry drove the F1 Surtees back in 76 with another gentleman by the name of G. Harrison, they hung around with the team that season. Good memories. | ||
| DAVE SHEARS (Daveshears)
|
ART: SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR QUITE A WHILE YOUR OLD SUZUKI RACE BIKES--WERE THEY BUILT ON 1978 GS 1000 S MODEL OR E MODEL? OR DID YOU YOU USE THE 1977 GS 750E WITH A BIG BORE KIT? DO YOU STILL HAVE ANY OF THESE OLD RELICS? I WAS IN THE MOTORCYCLE BUSINESS FOR 29 YEARS WE PROBABLY KNOW SOME OF THE SAME PEOPLE. IT IS ALOT OF FUN TO SEE THE OLDER RACE BIKES. THE LAST ONE IN MY SMALL COLLECTION I SOLD WAS A H1R THAT NIXON RACED. (OR SO THE STORY GOES) | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
|
Solly I for one would be interested in knowing about some prices, times, etc about a track day. I would like to start tracking the Ferrari once I'm done with the rebuild. | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
|
Looks like time to start planning another rally this spring. Could meet at Miller Motorcars and go up to northern Connecticut or do it anywhere else. I'm open to suggestions. Anyone interested in a private track day at Lime Rock? | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
|
Almost to 300, only 12 more to go (i think). I can hardly wait till this spring's mini rally. There should be a good turnout, but this time whos up for someplace other than LI? | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
Nika: I haven't invited Josh or Ed, but that may be a good idea. Josh did go to Indy and came home with me in my plane. It was a good trip back, but I couldn't get him to fly the plane. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
Dave: I started racing Suzukis at the National level in the early 70s. At the time the Superbike limit was 1000cc. They were faster than hell, but they sure didn't handle. Scary, especially at places like Daytona. In the late 70s I went to a bevel drive Ducati 900cc supersport. I raced that in the Superbike series, with several top 10 finishs, Daytona and Laguna Seca as examples. In the early 80s I started racing the later style Ducati, similar to their 750 F1. I won several championships with that vehicle, but crashed it in the "kink" right after the horseshoe at Daytona (fifth gear). The bike was destroyed. I then bought a Harris chassis Ducati which I won in 85 and 88 the twins championship. That is the same bike I crashed in 90 when I quit. I still have the following: 99 Suzuki 750 (Daytona Winner), 2000 Suzuki AMA Supersport racer, 2001 Suzuki 1000 AMA Formula Exterme bike, 1977 Triumph street bike. The 1987 Harris Chassis Ducati. The Ducati weighed 271# ready to race, made 95HP at the rear wheel, ran the quarter in 9.2 at 142, the Suzuki 1000 is about the same E.T. but gets about 155 for trap speed. The triumph, highly modified, weighs about 300#, does 11.86 @ 104 and looks stock unless you take a close look at it. I use that bike for Sunday morning rides, and it is about as quick as a 600cc current Japanese bike. I love to catch 20 year olds on their rice burners on a winding road. I can beat most if not all of them and they can't understand why an old guy on an antique can motor around them. It's cheap thrills for me. I still ride on track days, but no longer race at the track. | ||
| DAVE SHEARS (Daveshears)
|
ART WHICH MODEL MOTORCYCLES DID YOU RACE--DID YOU KEEP ANY OF THEM--IF SO WHAT DO YOU STILL HAVE. | ||
| Nika (Racernika)
|
Art - you couldn't fool me that day in Salinas!! LOL You talked cars....BUT when you talked motorcycles - your eyes had a glazed look...and well, I knew then, you were one of those "WILD" types! Remember - we have some mutual friends - you certainly don't mean THEM when talking about your crazy friends????? LOL | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
Martin: I'll let you know when were in town. Nika is far too well behaved to deal with me and my friends. Art | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
...and here I thought you'd have some decent friends...  South Beach, lots of bars and places to be disorderly. If you time it right you may see Nika in a bikini at the beach ..trying to tan some racing stripes on her body...LOL let me know when you are coming and we'll hook up at Clevelander on Ocean Drive. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
Martin: Going out on the town with a bunch of racers and ex-racers (motorcycle racers are generally better behaved than NASCAR drivers, but not by much) is generally a d & d (drunk & disorderly) affair. Art | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
|
275 lets go for 300 | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
Art...that depends on your definition of "raising hell". What do you want to do...where do you want to go...what do you want to see? | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
Martin: Since I'll probably be in Florida in early March, do you know of any good places to raise hell in Miami? | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
|
I hope I have my car together by the time we do another rally. If not you guys could meet at my dad's shop (big driveway, on a small street) which is less than 5 minutes from the GWB in NJ, and stare at the mess of random parts that are someday supposedly going to all go back in. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
|
This is one hell of a thread. I never realized how many people from around the NYC area. I cant wait for a mini rally this spring. Maybe we could meet at Miller Motorcars this time. The maserati salesmen suggested that to me. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
sorry Peter here is 270! | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
YOU WALKED TO THE 70TH FLOOR ???? they do have an elevator, you know! | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
At this rate we'll see 300 before fool's day. | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
|
Who will be first to 300? | ||
| Rijk Rietveld (Rijk400i5sp)
|
Let's go back to the topic. Where did you come from: home. Where are you now: I'm in my office in the Empire State building on the 70th floor. How did you get there: I walked. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
|
Peter, It just shows life ain't perfect. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
|
DAMN MAGOO AND MARTIN! You had to go ahead and post more on this thread. (I predicted 260 postings, Ernie achieved that). ARGGHHH!  | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
no brown pants for me Magoo! ..unless Nika puts them on for me ~ | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
Art, our weather is really mostly nice. Sometimes too nice. In summer you wonder if you should have bought a TB. Then the AC has a hard time with the TS top on. A spider is nice because you can just drop the top and go but have your top with you in case of these tropical rains... | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
|
Martin, You have to do what Nika says, Wear Brown Pants. | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
|
Here we are a new record | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
Martin: You guys do get the good weather, but Northern California isn't so bad. One of the reasons I sold the 348 Spyder for the 33tb was the weather. When it is warm, I have the Triumph street bike. Southern California weather is comparable to Florida, but then you have to live there and walking is faster than driving most of the time there. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
hmmmmm, let me think about that.............. NO WAY ! Just came back from riding the HArley. Did I mention it is 85° outside and beautiful sunshine and overall just the perfect day for cycling or driving the Ferrari with the top off/down. I went 160 once on a Suzuki Pro Streetbike in Germany. No Fu*king way would I do that again. That is some 10 years ago and I was scared then, imagine today. pppffthhh it goes right in my pants LOL | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
|
257 | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
Martin: Think about track days. At speed week in Daytona this year, there will be several track days before the event (second sunday of march) I'll be there with my rider for those days, along with Team Suzuki. If you want, I'm sure that there will be an extra bike available. There is a bump in turn 4 coming onto the straightaway. It is very interesting at 160+. Not dangerous, but very, very interesting. Art | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
THAT IS INTERESTING. I have been a motorcycle fan since day one of my drivers license. In fact I had a motorcycle before I had a car, much to lots of worries by my parents. I have owned Harleys and just a few weeks ago have been on a Harley again, after many years of driving cars. I love cycles however racing them is entirely different. I thought of that as "suicidal insanity". I can feel you and your passion though. I think I know what you are talking about. Such an interesting perspective. Martin | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
Matin: I've tried cars (I represent some well known racers), and I don't get the rush I got from motorcycles. There is something about being out in the open, the bike sliding, and you controlling the speed that is an incredible rush for me. If I had to do it over, I would not have started my law practice in the early 70s, but gone racing full time to see where it would have gone. I didn't, and the law practice has been successful. But having said that, I did race at the national level, lead at least one national (before the motor blew up) and won several regional championships all at a time when American motorcyclists were the best in the world. I still have a competitve bike (I represent Suzuki's race team and get their last year's vehicles) so I still ride, I just don't race. I do things that will get me hurt at this age when I race, so I go out to track days and go fast. Having said the above, I still like driving the 355 with other Ferraris when we go fast (but not crazy). Art | ||
| Chuck Rine (Chuck348ts)
|
253 | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
Art, if you could go back and have the choice of racing Motorcycles or cars, which one would you chose with what you know today? | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
|
Why stop Arthur? Keep talking.... | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
This is the 250th note. We've managed to tell our stories, talk about religion, and why we like Ferraris. This has been one of the best threads yet. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
Magoo is JAMES BLOND | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
I never knew that Italian is a Race... On the last forms I had to fill out it asked for race: White Black Hispanic Native American Asian Italian I always put Native American to blow off the censurs bureau. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
|
If I told you Where I came from and Where I am now and How did I get there. I'd have to kill ya. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
|
Keep going folks, only 14 more posts to get to (my) 260 bet! I never fully answered this thread in the first place, so here it goes: What made me want a Ferrari? At age 12 I got a chance to sit in a TR at Luigi's in Montreal. I HAD to have one. What made it possible to get one? Money and because it was a garage-queen GT4, not alot of it. I'm a tradesman by choice and worked hard at school to become one. But I enjoy it (even as of now temporarily unemployed). I wouldn't have changed a thing and looking forward to what's in store for the future. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
Tim: Mensa chat is where the dumb smart people go. See if you can find the web site for Mega. Another high IQ club. | ||
| Chris_N_Chicago (Chris_N_Chicago)
|
How do you reduce an Italian's vocabulary by half? ans: Tie one of his hands behind his back!!!! | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
|
We are getting closer to the magic number. | ||
| Mark (Study)
|
Tim - Yes I agree. We are all in danger of ruining the image of a real Italian mystique. What did they use to say about that ergonomics of the Ferrari's seating position and steering wheel placement? Ferrair's test measurments must be based on - a hairy, long armed, short legged, knuckle dragging, gold chain wearing, sex crazed, Italian man? Something like that? "Hey Yo? Shouldn't we be talking about pasta? Or something like that? " P.S. I am Italian (so I can make fun of my race. Right?) | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
|
I'll give you some help peter this board is starting to be more like mensachat than ferrarichat | ||
| Mark (Study)
|
Thanks Martin You wrote "The right way is to question things and be blown away by all of this and yet try to make sense." I agree 100%. That's why I picked my username "Study" (actually it was because "stud" was already taken) just joking LOL | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
Mark, you make my head spin. The last time that happend was when I read a book about time travel and the expansion of the universe. I think you are right on but there is a little more to it as well. There is a "greater sense" that is behind all that. The right way is to question things and be blown away by all of this and yet try to make sense. This will get you into "Deep Thoughts". Rock on Mark | ||
| Mark (Study)
|
So take comfort in the fact that we have NO concept of size. Our time and size is only relevant to what we experiance. What we experiance is limited by our size in the sceme of things.. thus it is impossable to ever understand size. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
Art, which would make us the equivalent of some microbes, which would mean that maybe even microbes have a society as we know it, which would make us creators, destroyers and God in the same sense. hmmm | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
I'll throw in my two cent: I think that the Universe is some kids' toy and when the're tired of the game, they'll pitch it. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
|
Why indeed! I once thought the entire universe is someone's experiment to see if reality is a viable form of existance. I still hold out that could be true. | ||
| Todd (Tkrefeld)
|
Deep thoughts...Ok We talked about how we got here, how we are supposed to be while here, thought processes, and material desires, as well as methods of dealing with strife, ect... BUT.... WHY are we here?? | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
LOL, guys 260 would be the hit. Maybe Rob can add the Deep Though topic right onto this one.LOL | ||
| Michael (Mtabije)
|
I'll take a literal approach to this question: Where are you from? Hawaii Where are you now? In front of my computer in Las Vegas, NV How did you get here? Plane LOL | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
|
Sorry to burst the bubble Ernie, but earlier on (Jan. 3rd 8:53pm) I predicted it would die at 260 entries and I'll see to it that it gets there. Keep trying.... | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
|
Well I'm just adding this so that this thread ends on a round number. | ||
| Michael (Mtabije)
|
I went to a state college and for the most part, except for a few cool people I met from the continental U.S. or other countries. College was an extension of High School, socially. But, I'm glad I didn't fall into that for long. | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
|
Yeah you do learn how to get drunk. I will say this the one thing that college does do is give you a chance to grow up. Start to get a sence of independance from your parents. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
Ernie: Back when I went, it was relatively inexpensive. Law School was $40.00 per unit. I hear it's now $300.00 per unit for an average school. When I taught at Law School, I got paid, almost minimum wage (this was in the early 70s). What I remember about school was the partying, etc. Art | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
|
Speeking of college. You think we get over charged for our Ferrari's. Well in my opinion college is the biggest scam around. I honestly can say out of 10 classes I was learning something new in only three or four of them. Shoot the first two years was review of the same garbage I had in high school. Could you imagine, here are the keys to your new Ferrari, but you have to drive your old car for two years before you can drive the Ferrari. Kiss my a##. College is extreamly over price for what you get. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
Martin: The terrible thing about your last post is that they all seem familiar from my college days. The 60s in San Francisco were different than today. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
|
Nice Martin. I think you'd get along quite well with my friends. You must have been a riot in college. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
SURE! as a Martinist you can drink as much as you want. I actually encourage to get really wasted. Being half drunk is a wasted day and wasted money. If you drink make sure you get hammered! This way people know you were drunk when you peed in the side alley, when you slapped the policemans butt and told him "Lady help me to my car I need to drive home..." and the judge will understand that this is a state of temporary insanity, because he was puking next to you in the alley. | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
|
Would anyone care for a drink? | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
Martin: The way they got those Ferraris on their used car lots was: 1. Too many good looking women looking for a ride in them, and 2. Too many lawyers taking them in for family law fees, and using them like their clients. Art | ||
| Erich Walz (Deleteall)
|
SUV:stupid, useless vehicle.(Lamborghini LM002 excepted) | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
|
Ha ha Well I solved that one, bought the SUV first then my Ferrari. My SUV is no armorall baby either. I have had it out doing some real 4x4 driving a few times. Man that thing can climb, even got it stuck on the beam that protects the transfer case. It is just like they advertised it "tough". The truck still drives like a champ and still looks great when it's all cleaned up and "armoralled", lol. Now if I could get my Ferrari to be just as tough and durable, on pavement of course. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
scary for a little steel and an oversized engine but really nothing more. Who needs a coffee maker in a pickup truck and what is with the cosmetic mirror on the driver side? | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
|
You need a Ferrari as a trade-in just to get into a new Dodge or Ford. Have you seen prices for these stupid new SUV's? (I'm sure it doesn't help that the old lady keeps nagging her husband to get rid of that "stupid" Ferrari and buy HER a real car... Ooops! I mean SUV...) | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
Did you guys ever wonder how some Dodge and Ford dealers get Ferraris onto their used car - trade-in lots? I wonder if there were too many good looking neighbors... | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
Ernie; I never made LUST to a woman, it was always LOVE. That Minivan idea sounds shitty but then it does not say in the bible that you have to love your neighbor and then marry her and buy a Minivan, right? | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
|
The second is as great as the first. You guys are so silly he said "Love" your neighbor as you would yourself, not "Lust" her. | ||
| Edward Salla (350hpmondial)
|
Martin, post a picture of her. (ha ha) Let her drive your car, then drive to Vegas, get married, sell your car, buy a mini van. Then, Post a pic of your mini van. (ha ha) | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
Edward, I'd love to love my neighbor, she is SWEET ! Did he really say that? I mean if he did then I guess I have to follow his command, right? | ||
| Edward Salla (350hpmondial)
|
Well, I've enjoyed it. Note: This thread started before Christmas, the time for the three "F's" family, friends & Ferrari's. In that order, you will find Nervana. Remember, Jesus's 2'nd greatest command, He said, " Love your neighbor as yourself." | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
Ernie: We all kept it civil, and the friendship remains, hopefully. Art | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
|
What is best about this whole thread is that we are still friends. At least I hope so. | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
|
Well Bob very clever, post the 200th message, kinda like the first guy to break 200mph. But who will be the 300th? lol hahahaa. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
|
It was Tim who questioned the role of religion in one's life and the success that they earned (dated Dec 21, 12:54pm). And Tim doesn't even own a Ferrari! | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
|
I guess the guy who started this thread deserves the trophy.... but he owns a PORSCHE (no F-car)!!!! I'm throwing the flag, he's DQed. Let's start over! | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
|
Screw you Todd, We are talking Religion here, or the lack there of. We are on a roll. Just Kidding as usual. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
|
Yep, this is a new record. WTC was only 183. Funny how the longest messages aren't about Ferrari. | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
|
Bob, I think 200 must be a record. Of course this will be post number 203 which makes me the new record holder! | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
And all Todd wanted to know was ..where did you come from... | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
|
beat me to it! | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
|
This is the 200th message on this thread and I have nothing to add. Is this a record??? :-) | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
There is always other things to do. Enjoy and have fun. I went on a Harley tour yesterday into the Keys. Great fun and a great time. Was always reminded of my friend who almost lost his life on his Harley when he got onto oil in a turn and barely missed the guard rail post, which would have chopped him into half. Bad enough he was in the hospital for 3 months and unconcious for a week. You would have never thought that he or my other friend would quit their Harleys. I guess you get older and take things into other perspectives. Rock on, now you have the Ferrari. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
Martin: I knew when I started racing that injury was a potential. At last count the number was 28 bones broken over the years. What taught me a lesson was that my ability to do certain things, such as keep the bike drifting, had gone away. My head knew what was necessary to win, but my ability to perform had become sporadic. When I was younger I used to laugh at the older guys who didn't know when to quit and were hurting themselves by crashing. I didn't realize that I had become too old to race, and was following the path that I had joked about. The last crash was a wake up call, because I almost either died or became a quad, and it was all ego. I had come from the 4th row on the start and lead into the first corner. Too much adrenline, not enough sense, and not enough physical ability to get the job done. Time to quit or be seriously hurt or killed. I still go fast on a bike, but only to test the race bike for the younger man who rides it. When racing you do things that you probably wouldn't do normally, again due to the adrenline, not common sense. Street bikes are dangerous. There are things to hit, cars with brain dead drivers, oil and gravel, or other dangers which you don't have on the race track. I still want to race, but know better. I sometimes think that the time on the track was the only time I was truly alive. Such is life. Art | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
I had a similar "accident" in MOnte Carlo. I was going daily from my apartment to the gym and back. From the hill at Grand Corniche, down to the beach and back. Passing the Loewes corner (whatever they call it now). Every day I was going just a little faster and riskier. Coming one day from the gym I was just too fast. It threw me in the corner but instead of the solid wall I landed in a 3 foot wide opeing for stairs. Nature's way of telling me: "If you do not stop that sh*t it will be the wall the next time!" | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
Interesting how perspectives change. Interesting that you had the accident before and where there also some "close-calls" before that? Those that you got off the bike and said, "•••• maybe I should stop doing that or I'll get myself killed?" This is one of the things when nature shows you enough is enough. There are many signs you get before you get hit hard. Most of us dismiss them and then wonder why this came out of nowhere. I have dseen that with my fathers stroke and with many people getting cancer and other illnesses. Accidents are usually the same. They are really not just accidents. I believe that if you would have gotten back on the bike you would be dead by now. Natures final call! | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
|
My friends and i refer to sport bikes (and MG's without roll bars) as death machines. One of my good friends wants to get one, but none of us want him too, we dont want to see him get killed. The Saw Mill River pkwy runs behind his house, he lives right near a dangerous turn. A few months ago 2 guys got killed on bikes there. I love going fast and stuff, but not enough to risk my life that much. I may be crazy, but im not stupid | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
Ernie: I don't race motorcycles any more, but I do go out on the track on them. I sponsor a younger rider on a Suzuki in the AFM series and the AMA formula Extreme series. The track is safer than the street. I intend to race the 125 shifter though. The difference between going fast and racing is that you don't do things when going fast that you would do if you were racing. I was competitive until my middle 40s, but time and injuries have slowed me down from my youth | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
|
Art That is why I will never get a crotch rocket. I would get my self killed. As for the 125 shifter, very nice. Those things fly, the 250 shifters will beat the tar out of just about anything on a track. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
Martin: My first warning was a crash at Dayton the year before at the "kink" just after the horseshoe. That is the flat out left hander just before the banking, about 140 - 150mph. Nothing broken, a a crazy tumble and slide. Nature's way of letting me know that I was getting too old for that ••••. Sure did change my perspective on going fast however. I bought a 125 shifter for my thrills now. Art | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
Bad to end a career this way but brings thing back to focus. Sometimes life slowes you down a little to let you obtain perspective. I would bet you had some smaller things happening before. This may have been the last warning to focus and you took it. Good deal! | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
Martin: Broken Humeris (ph. spelling), broken rib, and broken collar bone. Already brain damaged, allegedly no head injury this time. I took advantage on the start, and came from the 3rd row into the lead, was going much too fast, and this is the end result. Tanks allah for body armour in the leathers, but I had to order them, and have them installed. Art | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
I guess you can thank Allah for being with us today | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
Ernie: I couldn't figure out how to put the picture into this file. I was however able to load it into my profile. Art | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
|
Lamborghinis are from Mars, Ferraris from Venus. Lotus is from Mercury (either too hot or too cold!) | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
Hey William, so God is from Mars and Jesus from Venus? sorry, I couldn't help myself! No that was not my material. Got that as an e-mail. | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
|
This has to be getting close to a record for #s of pos. The longest one I can think of was the World Trade Center thread and I think that one ended somewhere around 170. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
|
The debate of religions has gone on for millenia...and will in this thread. I predict that by 260 entries, it will finally die. Who wants to bet? Ooops! shouldn't say something like that here, there's some big players around, I'm just a little fella... | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
|
The Hindus have what they call a Day of Brahma or God, which lasts as long as Creation. So I think this "Earth was created in 7 days" stuff should be taken to mean 7 God days A day is measured diffently depending on what plant u r on. Here it is 24 hours, On Mars it is over 30 I believe, On Mercury, about 12 hours, & on Saturn 1 day could = 1 Earth month. SO there was no mention of Earth hours or Earth days even. This would allow the Creation story & science to stop buttting heads so much on 1 issue at least | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
|
How did I miss this one? Well, just to throw my Canadian .02 in. I believe in God and the Bible. Unfortunately, most of Christendom is not practicing Christianity. Gandhi said that "If all people of the earth practiced what was said on the sermon on the mount, then this world would be free of problems" I believe that. Christians have been killing each other for centuries in God's name! LIve as a Christian not as a Catholic or Protestant or whatever you may be. The principles in the Bible will help you be a better person. The mistake people make is to take the bible literally. The earth was not created in 6 days but 6 periods of time. Paleantologists and scientists including Evolutionists agree that the basic "creative days" happened in that order. The Bible is not a book of science, but when it touches on science it is always correct. Example? In Job it says that teeth have skin, hence the term "skin of my teeth" but it was only proven with the invention of a microscope. Mosaic law tells to dispose of waste and not to touch dead bodies, if you did touch a dead body you were to be "unclean" for 7 days. Why? Bacteria. They didn't know about bacteria but they followed it and remained healthy. The people around them didn't follow this law and died by the hundreds. There are many more points we could bring up, but then this thread would never die. If you truely are interested in God, you will find him. | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
|
Art It is amazing how the quality of my life has changed, by just starting to follow the rules that I know of in the Bible. I am no "Ned Flanders". I still like to drink a beer, but I don't get drunk. My one and only hangover to date, at age 18, cured my of that nonsence, and the book says you shouldn't get drunk either. Financially in the last two years, because of letting GOD handle things, I have very closely tripled what I earn, and I do 1/3 the work. Lets not forget the Ferrari that now have. Hey Man just try it, forget religion, go for the relationship. GOD will amaze you! | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
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Ouch what where you in? | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
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The answer is this thread is never going to end | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
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oooops Newest that is | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
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Ernie: The question is: is the thread going to end with a religious argument, or is it going to end with more autobiogaphies? I'm in favor of the religious ending, but from reading the bios, I'll take either. On the bio: tomorrow when I'm back in the office, I'll post the picture of the end of crash that ended my racing career. Hint: Sears Point, turn 2, high sided while in the lead, got run over. Art | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
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This is the longest thread i have ever seen here. Rob, is this the longest one in Ferrarichat history? | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
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Martin isn't the "news testement" the "Book of Mormon" lol what a crock! | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
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This should have been named "how this thread got started and when will it end" LOL lets see how long we can get it. | ||
| Timothy J. Dressel (Tjd)
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Martin, Your original material? --tim d | ||
| Edward Salla (350hpmondial)
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Good Ending............ Thanks Martin & Pass the dip. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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losely translated from the old script. It is called the "Newest Testament" | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
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Its in the special Miami edition | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
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Very silly Martin You know that's not in the Bible. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
sorry just found this straight out of the Bible: In the Beginning In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth. And the Earth was without form, and void. And Satan said, "It doesn't get any better than this." And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. Let the earth bring forth grass, seed, and the fruit tree yielding healthy fruit." And God saw that it was good. And Satan said, "Bummer, there goes the neighborhood." And God said, "Let us make Man in our image, after our likeness." And so God created Man in his own image; male and female he created them. And God looked upon Man and Woman and saw that they were lean and fit. And Satan said, "I know how I can get back into this game." And God planted the earth ! with broccoli and cauliflower and spinach, green and yellow vegetables of all kinds, so Man and Woman would live long and healthy lives. And Satan created McDonald's. And McDonald's brought forth the 99-cent double cheeseburger. And Satan said to Man, "You want fries with that?" And Man said, "SuperSize them." And Man gained 5 pounds. And God created healthful yogurt, that woman might keep her figure that man found so fair. And Satan brought forth chocolate. And Woman gained 5 pounds. And God said, "Try my crispy fresh garden salad." And Satan brought forth Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream. And Woman gained 10 pounds. And God said, "I have sent thee heart-healthy vegetables and olive oil with which to cook them." And Satan brought forth chicken-fried steak & gravy so big it needed its own platter. And Man gained 10 pounds,! and his bad cholesterol went through the roof. And God brought forth running shoes, and Man resolved to lose those extra pounds. And Satan brought forth Cable TV with remote control so Man would not have to toil to change channels between ESPN and ESPN2. And Man gained another 20 pounds. And God said, "You're running up the score, Devil." And God brought forth the potato, a vegetable naturally low in fat and brimming with nutrition. And Satan peeled off the healthful skin and sliced the starchy center into chips and deep-fat fried them. And he created sour-cream dip also. And Man clutched his remote control and ate the potato chips swaddled in cholesterol. And Satan saw and said, "It is good." And Man went into cardiac arrest. And God sighed and created quadruple bypass surgery. And then Satan created HMO's. And then God just plain gave up.... | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
KEN: WHAT MAKES PEOPLE ABLE TO CORNER IS PRACTICE. SAME THING WITH THOUGHT. MOST DON'T DO IT WELL, BECAUSE THEY DON'T PRACTICE IT. ON THE WEST COAST WE HAVE A LITTLE TRACK OUT HERE CALLED LAGUNA SECA. I'VE NEVER RUN MY 355 THERE, BUT HAVE MANY LAPS ON MY DUCATI THERE IN THE 70S AND 80S WHEN I RACED AMA SUPERBIKE. THAT WAS PRE CART MODIFIED TRACK. ONE CORNER THERE IS CALLED THE CORKSCREW, ITS THE DOWN HILL LEFT HANDER THAT YOU SEE IN THE PICTURES ADVERTISING THE TRACK, RATHER STEEP, AND TIGHT, THERE IS A RIGHT HANDER IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARD. THE FAST WAY THROUGH THAT CORNER IS TO GET THE BIKE SIDEWAYS, AND AS ITS TRYING TO HIGH-SIDE YOU T THE RIGHT, YOU TURN TO THE RIGHT AND ROLL ON THE GAS, SINCE THE DOWN HILL IS MOSTLY FLAT OUT. THE WHOLE THING IS COUNTER INTUITIVE, BUT IF YOU GET IT RIGHT, IT IS VERY FAST. ALL IT TAKES IS PRACTICE. ART | ||
| Michael (Mtabije)
|
The spirituality of self depends a lot on your experiences. In my experience in life, nothing is handed to you. You can't depend on GOD or Buddah or the saints to get you out of a sticky situation (e.g. tornado, hurricane- as mentioned in some posts). You have the ability to try to survive these natural occurances in nature...not by playing timid sheep and asking for a higher being while you are cowering in the corner- you just decrease your chances of survival. The challenge is to survive, think logically, and instinctively (it is possible) and then you may pray for that little extra kick in the arse to get by. However, it mostly depends on you. If you don't survive, don't blame anybody, you did give it your best shot and died trying.....what the heck did I just say????!! Oh, I know, apply this little passage to other things in life, break it down, build it up and I guess you'll see my point. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
|
KEN: HOW DO YOU RECONCILE THE SCIENTIFIC DATE OF THE "BIG BANG" WITH THE VARIOUS RELIGIOUS VERSIONS OF CREATION? They both start at an actual time in history. There was no 'before' in either. Intersting huh! HOW DO YOU RECONCILE THE SCIENTIFIC THEORY THAT ONCE THE BIG BANG OCCURRED, THAT CONTACT BETWEEN WHATEVER WAS BEFORE AND NOW IS IMPOSSIBLE? The time before the big bang is expressed mathematically as 'imaginary time'; but there was no "before" in our universe since it didn't exist. There are (and were) other universes however. Gravity transcends them all interstingly enough, hence the solution to the 'dark matter' paradox (the extra gravity we detect is from the other universes). LAST BUT NOT LEAST, HOW DO YOU RECONCILE THE TRILLION, TRILLION SUNS IN THE KNOWN UNIVERSE, WITH THE VARIOUS RELIGIOUS DESCRIPTIONS OF THEIR VERSION OF THE UNIVERSE? Surely God is the god of the universe, not the Earth. Anyone who doesn't believe that has a flawed religion, whatever form your God takes. I GUESS THAT YOU CAN POSTULATE VARIOUS FORMS OF DEITIES, BUT NONE OF THOSE FIT WITHIN THE RELIGIONS WHICH ARE IN PRACTICE HERE ON EARTH. That much is true. No religion currently on our planet has adequately explained how real time began, including the religion of science. Not that they should (except science). Yet the more we learn, the more mystical it becomes! Like leaning how to take corners: once you realize you stink at it you really start to learn what's involved. Most people drive like they worship: not a lot of thought. Ken ART | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
KEN: HOW DO YOU RECONCILE THE SCIENTIFIC DATE OF THE "BIG BANG" WITH THE VARIOUS RELIGIOUS VERSIONS OF CREATION? HOW DO YOU RECONCILE THE SCIENTIFIC THEORY THAT ONCE THE BIG BANG OCCURRED, THAT CONTACT BETWEEN WHATEVER WAS BEFORE AND NOW IS IMPOSSIBLE? LAST BUT NOT LEAST, HOW DO YOU RECONCILE THE TRILLION, TRILLION SUNS IN THE KNOWN UNIVERSE, WITH THE VARIOUS RELIGIOUS DESCRIPTIONS OF THEIR VERSION OF THE UNIVERSE? I GUESS THAT YOU CAN POSTULATE VARIOUS FORMS OF DEITIES, BUT NONE OF THOSE FIT WITHIN THE RELIGIONS WHICH ARE IN PRACTICE HERE ON EARTH. ART | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
|
I'm sorry I was gone over a week and missed adding my two cents to some of the 'God" comments. I'm compelled to say a few points. You CAN get something from nothing (virtual paticles pop in to existence from nothing all the time); and I have yet to see ANY conflict between science and religion. If you have a conflict then you're a victim of bad science or bad religion. | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
|
Problem is that no one wants to ask. Then they get mad at the owner, the boss, and the guy that told them how to get on the list. Oh well I guess I'll just enjoy my drink. If you do change your mind your still welcome in. | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
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You are welcome to come in at no charge. Everyone is welcome. Just ask the boss. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Ernie; that sounds like "The white Night Party" in Miami. This is a AIDS event. Hm, maybe now it becomes clear to me why I am not IN. I hate it when you are judged by a bouncer in a club and if he likes you u'r in otherwise you are schmuck waiting outside. I do not like VIP lists, they are discriminating and demeaning. I do not need to be with the IN crowd, neither do I need a VIP list to feel better about myself. In fact I'll tell the bouncer up there the same thing I told the bouncer at one of these clubs down here in Miami: shov this sh*t up your ***, if my friends can not come in, I don't need to be there either and we will go someplace else and spend our money!...and so we did! | ||
| Chuck Rine (Chuck348ts)
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Well said Tim. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
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I guess its what makes him so un-understandable (is that a word). thats why religions are also called faiths. you have to have faith and believe i guess, so we should all leave it at that. | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
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The 10th is given to honor and thank. Yes you get it back, the first is 10 fold, the second is it is tax deductable just get reciepts. It is true that some people who were waiting in line will get in the club. However the absolute overwhelming majority of people inside the club will be those that where on the v.i.p. list. They will get in because they asked the boss. He's way cool, just don't get on his bad side. By the way the boss is the owners son, and he tells the bouncers who can get in the door. Oh, there is gonna be a dress code for this event. He want's as may people at this party as possible, so he took care of the admission price for us. It's gonna be great. The best band in the universe is gonna be playing, and drinks are gonna be on the house. About the dress code, well your cloths are gonna have to be pure white. Get this you can still get put on the list. Just call up the boss and ask to be put on the list, just mention that I sent you. Oh by the way, the owners son has a cleaning business, he can hook you up on getting your clothes clean so you don't have you worry about the dress code. Hope to see you there. | ||
| Chuck Rine (Chuck348ts)
|
Tim, it's not that I don't believe in God, it's that I don't need God to explain what I see around me. Physics, chemistry, statistics, thermodynamics/entropy/chaos theory, evolution - everything can be explained (maybe not completely yet) by these sciences, time, and mulitdimensional space. To me, God and the physical laws of the universe are one and the same. Frankly, God as a supreme "being" is simply beyond my understanding. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
|
I turned away from Christianity cus it seems everything rotates around humans, Israel, & the Vatican. There is SO much more to the Universe than just our 1 little planet & the Bible never says anything about the rest of the Universe & animals r treated as property. I just cant accept that stuff. But if it works for you then more power to you | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
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My ap bio teacher doesnt believe in god either, it must be a scientist sort of thing. I dont know what to think, since i am a rational person, so i agree with chuck. I think the whole creation thing in the bible is crap. Keep in mind that this doesnt mean i think the whole thing is crap though. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Very interesting perspective.... | ||
| Chuck Rine (Chuck348ts)
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When I read Edward's comments, I think to myself "That sounds like something I would write". Every single one of them. It's all about the Emperor and control. I can appreciate the need that people have for religion, but to explain tragic events by saying "We prayed and were spared" or "It was God's will" is just nonsense because it ignores the ones who prayed and weren't spared, or who could have changed the course of events and didn't act to do so. I am a geologist and my views on the world are shaped by contemplating a 15-billion-year-old universe with 4.5 billion years of Earth history and a human civilization (say 10,000 years) accounting for 2/10,000ths of 1% of that. And God waited around all of that time before deciding to mess with us. JMHO | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
Maybe I am more a Buddhist... Tim, the nerves that are used to explain the near death experiences can only explain why people see a bright comforting light but not why everybody is hovering over their bodies, why people travel great distances in seconds and see their loved ones, which can be verified later and soforth. There is much much more. I'd love to get some input from Najib. Thank God (if I may) that William is a Buddhist. Edward is a true atheist, he believes in ethernal engine oil! What a great diverse group. Why WTC? Everybody will argue this a different way. I think WTC has brought the best in people and has made a lot of people rethink. It has brought the worst in people as well. It has given us all a choice of thought. Will we think hate filled or will we use this to explore what we all have done wrong. Out of WTC you can take two immediate actions: hate all muslims. or ask why we have such a bad rap with them and try to change. This is the true test of time that WTC will bring to us. And yes, God could ask that question to us or whoever you believe in. Sometimes lifes are being sacreficed to help other evolve. we may not understand it until we will see the whole picture one day. You may call it Gods grand plan, I call it the truth, William calls it Nirvana. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
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Edward, I talk to Buddha every day He is constantly with me. Buddha is the song of birds, the blue of the sky, my kittens, the shriek of my Ferrari, its all Buddha Peace | ||
| Edward Salla (350hpmondial)
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Ed, I like you. (And your car has the baddest belt set-up, I want one.) You are one rightious dude, I wish more people were like you. You were also right on with the fact that you find the worst people inside a religious environment. "You can only find a hypocrite in church." Even Jesus got pissed off at the church people two thousand & 2 years ago. (He tipped over the tables of the money changers and the balance of the time he talked about destroying the temple and rebuilding it in three days.) Jesus hung out with tax collectors and prostitutes. Even today I'll bet Jesus would be hanging out with Mac Davis & Budda. No way would he be caught dead (pun intended) with Jim Baker and Tammi Fay. My friends and I don't own a church or steal 10% of peoples money, we are being taken care of. God doesn't need anybodies help. (He is bigger then that.) That's why he said, John 15:5-12 " I am the vine and you are my branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit.............. Love each other as I have loved you." William, I talked to Jesus today, did you talk to Budda? | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
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Mark, Buddhism tells us that change is the only constant in the Universe so Buddhism is constantly flowing around certain core principles. The big difference between Buddhism & Semitic races is that you can go & speak to a Buddha today, face to face Tim, Doctors dont study spirituality, theologians, philosophers, Monks, & Metaphysicians study Spirituality. Also the Buddhist concept of the Mind/Brain relationship is radically different from anything in western experience | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
|
I believe very little until I see it for myself. I do not believe in UFOS either. My Emperor line has a different meaning to me in that everyone sees something and does something because it is what we were always taught to do, but finally someone looks at the reality of a situation and calls it into question. One of my relatives asked me to attend their church a while back and I told her that I really did not feel as though it is where I wanted be because of my beliefs. She said " Well. It will be good for your business" for people to see you attend. As I pondered the situation it confirmed that most churches that I have seen are social organizations that seperate Race, and financial status that really have no effect on the majority of the congregation. Most are the same SOBs when they left as when they went in. Most Preachers ask me for a discount on repairs because they are preachers. What gives them qualifications for a discount. Do I get a discount off the 10% that I am supposed to give because of what I do? The biggest complainers on auto repair are Religious people who wear their Religion on their sleeve. | ||
| Edward Salla (350hpmondial)
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Ed, I hate to argue about religion. (ok ok so I don't.) You seem like a logical fellow, thus I must point out that you are begging the question with your emperor comment. (Also, the emperor story is about peer pressure, not faith.) So, I must ask, If you are blind, and someone tells you that the Emperor is fully clothed, would you believe them? Now, lets say you are out of town, and four independant reporters pubish the naked emperor story, now who do you believe? | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
|
I believe there has been a lot of interpretation changes to suit a more civilized society. There is a passage where if your Daughter is not a virgin at her marriage she should be stoned to death. Could you just see the pile of bodies if that were enforced today. Also it says that anyone who is desperate and without hope should be given strong drink to forget his troubles. The Baptists would have a fit over that one. I attended the IRL race in Charlotte a couple of years ago and a prayer was said before the race with the fans standing and heads bowed. The speaker asked God for a safe race without injury. About an hour later they were carrying bodies out of the stands from an on track accident. I find it hard to worship or pray to a God who allows such misery to happen to good people. You see it all the time where people just barely miss being killed by a Tornado or some other event and they say that they just prayed. What about the poor people that got killed by the storm? I bet they were praying for safety too. Wake up people. The Emperor has no clothes. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
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In response to mark about the web being an american thing, i dont think thats true at all. The web is popular in europe. On an unrelated topic- when all of u were in school did you notice that what you were taught almost always portrayed america to be good and right when there were times when it was wrong? and is it just me or is everything we are tought eurocentric? it would be interesting to hear from someome not western | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
|
William, that spirit stuff and what goes on in our mind is just nerve impulses and such. Im sure there are some doctors in here that know. I believe this, but i also believe that there is something like a spirit i cant describe with words. | ||
| Mark (Study)
|
There is only one small tiny problem with all religions. They are not set up for change. The one constant in the universe is change. I feel uncomfomfortable talking about religion because I realize the other side (true believers) can only play defence. And no team wins when they are always on the defencive end. Every 100 years it gets harder and harder to defend a system that just keeps getting older and older. Religion gets backed into a corner. Everything in our world keeps getting improved by our constant intelectual growth. But religion is fixed by its own nature and can only grow older and look more obsolete as everything around it gets smarter. How do you deal with this? If you are the Pope, what do you do ? Quite frankly I would stick with my own kind and not discuse religion with free-thinkers. Its a recipe for trouble. I apoligize to all religious folks on this fourm. Enjoy your religion. I"m not going to write anymore on this topic, since investigation and logic leads to the slow deteritation of something that brings comfort and pleasure to many. This topic is a loser. Back to the beautiful cars!! | ||
| Edward Salla (350hpmondial)
|
Najib, Muslims can get to heaven.... Abraham did.... and others. Jews can get to heaven, Abraham (yes, Abraham was a Jew & a Muslim, check you history) David, Elija and many others. (Martin help me out here.) As a Nuclear Physicist, I can see why even Einstein believed in God and miracles. Your spirit can't be measured with an instrument, and if it could, some of us still wouldn't believe. Thus, the key (thanks again Martin), "Faith as a child........ etc" And as a child, I am thankful to my Father. He has made me rich, not just with my "F" car (I do like my car), but in people & relationships. For you, who have been "troubled" by this thread, please check with your spirit. BTW, I lost all of my belongings in the WTC, I survived by Grace. If I would have been killed, like a lot of my friends were, I would not be angery with Jesus my God. Why did the WTC disaster happen? As humans, we are given freedom of choice, unfortunately, some peoples choices will effect other peoples lives. Just as Abraham's did, when he fathered both the Jews and the Muslims. I wish they could get along. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
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Tim, at the risk of starting a metaphysical discussion, not all energy is held within the matter of the body. We are not just "meat robots" spiritual energy, mind, soul, whatever u want to call it, also exists | ||
| Mark (Study)
|
The one thing I learned... the web is still pretty much an American thing. We don't have enough people at Ferrari chat from all corners of the Globe. Would have made this topic WAY more interesting! We should all feel lucky that we are born in tech-rich countries. Business, culture and religion are all strugling with the global reach of technology making neighbors of people from all over this world. This will be very interesting to see how religion deals with this. The world is changing. And we haven't seen nothing yet! Quite frankly... I'm a bit excited to see when I can get that all Mid East cable station. I'd love to watch that. P.S. I like to expand topics to look at all sides. Sorry if some of you think I'm taking you off topic. Just how MY thirst for information seems to work. Ferrari Chat is still 99.9% Ferrari... relax. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
|
If you believe in God then you must believe that he is totally responsible for the WTC tragedy. I am told that people are given the responsibility to decide right or wrong and yet I am told God is in control. If he is not in control then why do people pray for a desired outcome? Why did the survivors of the WTC thank God for saving them and yet thousands of others died. Were they all bad people or does God "work in mysterious ways", the usual worded cop out. People have been led to believe the penalty for non belief is eternal fire which would be the most horrible death that anyone can think of and is used to control by fear. One other thing. Why does God require and demand worship and praise? I refuse to worship anything or anyone and think very little of anyone who does request it. Instead of prayer, I use good old hard work and rely on my own resources to get me out of trouble and I will say again " Do unto outers as you would have them do unto you". Follow that and we will all get along just fine. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
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Martin, you raise a very good point, but it doesnt support reincarnation. Energy is stored in chemical bonds in the atoms of our body. This energy is harvested by the things that decompose us. So thats where our energy goes. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
Martin: I agree with the good Doctor that we may have gone too far. However, I agree with you that modern physics has effectively destroyed any potential that relgion could be true. However those that believe will probably get very upset when reminded of those facts. People have the right to believe in whatever they wish, right or wrong as long as they don't use those beilefs to effect other people's lives. If they wish to believe in the tooth fairy, not my place to object or ridicule them. I came from a religious Jewish family and still have family that strongly believes in their religion. I avoid discussing their beliefs because it makes them angry. | ||
| martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
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Martin, STOP ALREADY!! Please Please please. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
If we all agree on math and physics, then think of this: All matter is energy in a more stable form. Energy is just being transformed from one form of energy into the next but never lost. Gasoline is transformed into motion and wind and heat, wind can be transformed into power, power can be re-transformed into wind or anything else. The circle is always closed. So no energy really escapes. When we die what happens to our energy? It is being transformed! This is the best theory for the reincarnation theory in Buddhism. Even in cristianity. "from dust to dust and earth to earth..." A flower starts in the earth, blooms and dies back into the earth, then becomes the earth again to come again a year after as a flower and continue the cycle. What I do not like about most religions is that they are all geard towards reward and punishment in the "after" life. Scare them and they will obey you on this planet! As per the Vatican Corporation, I hear you. While Millions of people are dying all over the world the Vatican looks on and does exactly NOTHING! Sending preists into Africa to teach the "non-believers" how to die with God by their side, instead of sending them food and helping them back on their feet. This was one of the reasons I started to question the true reason of the catholic church. In the 80s when the Ethopian crisis was and thousands died of hunger, we had fund raisers at the chruch and people were asked for more and more money otherwise these people would all die and we would have it on our concience.... Yet one month later our church ordered and installed new Church bells for a price tag of $ 30,000. I guess they were more important than some 1000 Ethiopians that could have survived that year with the extra food. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Margoo, "roads paved in gold...." as nobody else has made a comment about that... I don't want that. Yes, I want my F to be with me but roads of gold, NO WAY, there is no grip on gold! | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
Najib, although this has started to be a full fletch religion discussion I can not see that this is bad. Yes, it is not ReligionChat.com but there are other topics that discuss our true love, Ferrari and yes, it is off the chart but whoever wants to discuss religion here as a side mark, why not. I just have to apologize for starting this to TODD in his original post. If you (any anybody that thinks this has nothing to do here) think that it should be discontinued, just not log in this threat. I find it very funny and amusing how "active" some of the participants have gotten, and that to me speaks louder than the words they say. Yet I do not change my mind that they are all great people. Frank has one of the nicest cars, BTW had a call last night for a 348 SPider silver, if you want to sell, can get you top$$$, Edward has the fastest Mondial and soforth, yet we disagree on one thing and that is this religion thing. But when we ever meet we will not be thinking about this threat but our passion for the reds. | ||
| Najib Amanullah (Najib)
|
Religion and politics are nice ways of losing friends and making enemies. Just look around the world and you will see what they have achieved. GOD (or whoever you believe in) gave us this world with all its treasures and look what we have done with it. As a Muslim I have read some of the notes claiming only Christians will be allowed in heaven. I am sure this is offensive to all of the Jewish faith, Buddhists, Martinists and Muslims who possibly read but do not participate on this forum. I have a lot of views which will blow away a lot of theories and views expressed in this thread but this is not the place to do it. Start a web site of your own for this. I would appeal to all those who do not want to prolong this, not to post any further opinions on this subject...Magoo, Martin, William etc. etc. have added very valuable words to this otherwise offensive topic. I respect you all for your views but even if you feel you have a valid point please lets not voice it here and let this thread die. We have deviated too far from the original intention of this topic. | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
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If people want to argue religion or anything else what is the big deal. This thread sure is getting a lot of posts. No one is forcing anyone to read or type in this section. I do however agree with Magoo that no ones opinion will be changed one way or another by a post on Ferrarichat. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Hey Edward, I said I was not going to respond but if this a closing here goes. Got a B.A.. Doesn't sound as funny. Left seminary,probably because I couldn't accept with the faith of a little child, made some money in the car business bought up property developed a 132 slip boat marina, had 2 boat store sales and service locations among other land investments. Remember my comment, I am not an atheist just an agnostic. BRGDS. | ||
| Edward Salla (350hpmondial)
|
Ok, Ok one more post, then I'm gonna go read Hemmings Motor News. (I promise Steve.) Hey magoo, when you were @ seminary, did they teach about Life & Death? you know, The Reserection or was Jesus's body stolen by the deciples? And thanks. (about the child thing) I been down a long road to get here, you know "Gracefully." No seminary though. Back to the origional thread; Came from a small town is California, grew up trying to surf. I tought Nuclear Physics for the Navy/DOD out of Highschool up in Idaho. Went on to get BS degree. ( Ha ha BS sounds funny) Worked as a Chemical, Mechanical Engineer & Currently work in Dallas as a Telecommunications Engineer. How about you? | ||
| Stephen Patterson (Srpatterson)
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Thank you Magoo, Religion and Politics are best not discussed at the office or on FerrariChat. Not appropriate here IMHO. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Guys I think Martin M.D. is correct. This is not a theology site. There are personal differences here about how each one of us believes. I have been guilty as all of you who are participating in this thread. Each of us should be happy with the way we believe and should not try and convince another, especially on a Ferrari Chat site. So with that I bow out and leave it to you guys. I will never convince you and you will never convince me, so why all of the testimonials? | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Edward, Don't take this as criticism what I am about to say. You seem to have accepted your faith as that of a little child as the Bible says. This is good for you and people like you who don't question and accept things as they are written, or translated and written as interperted. I don't criticize your faith or your belief I just say you are afraid to see some of the other side of the story. Christ spoke in Aramaic. It is a known fact by the time it got to the King James version much had been lost over the years in the passing of translations. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were known as the 4 synoptics. There has been contradictions found of each of their testimony of the words and miracles performed by Christ. Errors in translations? Maybe. I studied Bible for 4 years and attended 2 yrs of seminary and believe me it is not as cut and dried as you explain it. However each of us has to believe as we see or perceive it to be. We will not solve our differences here and probably never will because of the foundations of our beliefs. I think it is wonderful that you feel as strong about your religion as you do. Accept without question and you will find it. Your statement in your profile,"Faith the size of a mustard seed can move a mountain," says it all. BRGDS Magoo | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
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I liked the thing about Clinton/Monica with the cigar Gonna have to try that 1 day LOL | ||
| martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
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Mark, If you are bored posting about cars/Ferrari's and wish to talk religion why not subscribe to www.theology.com? What's next with you guys politics?? Inappropriate imho. | ||
| Mark (Study)
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Sorry but we have 50 other active threads about Ferrari. I can only talk about 355 or 348?? for so long. One thread about a topic that must be interesting to some people...(its 120 post long so far) is nice durring the vaction break. I did not spin. I am just looking at the 5th dimension of the conversation... There is always a show or image that we are careful to craft for the public's eyes and ears. But we can also learn a bit when we look behind the scenes. Religion is also a busines in one respect. Sorry if I am boring you. We can go back to "Red...is it the only true color for a Ferrari?" next week. | ||
| Stephen Patterson (Srpatterson)
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Wow, talk about spinning. EXCUSE ME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Has anyone seen FerrariChat??? It seems to have been replaced by ReligionChat. Give it a rest guys and move on. This thread is about as much fun as a root canal. In the imortal words of Rodney King, "can't we all just get along?" By the way, I believe Rodney is serving 5 to 10 for armed robbery. | ||
| Mark (Study)
|
What does the business side of Religion look like? I know we have some fans of the Simpson's TV show on this board. "They are such a pure form of Humor" I think Martin said that? anyway If you catch some of the side jokes.. one of my favorite is the TV commercials they run by the "WE SAY SO CORPORATION" Buy our product,... Why ? Because we say so! Kind of making fun of any operation that gets big enough to bully people with its sheer size and almost becomes True because they say its true. No logic or reson is necessary. Reminds me a bit about some of the aspects I don't like of Religions. I do admire the Vatican. The CEO of that corporation realy knows how to hoard the big bucks.. talk about a cash rich company. Martin you want to talk about Materilism...Vatican makes Tiffiany's, Cartier' and Ferrari look like stores for the poor. When you look at the balance sheets. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
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Chris, catholicism, or what it teaches isnt the way to heaven. I am a catholic because thats how i was raised. I recently started doubting it though. If you read the bible (im not sure where exactly, but i remeber reading it) it says that good works are not the path to heaven. Asking god to save you is. Also, the catholic church places too much emphisas on priests too. Now time to share thoughts on philosophy. People who believe philosophies are people who cant think for themselves, somtimes. | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
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Howdy fellas me again, You don't get into the club because you where so good while outside. But because the owner was kind enough to let you in. | ||
| Edward Salla (350hpmondial)
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Magoo, If the Bible is the word of God, and God exists, would he not ensure that the people translating it have enough coffee to stay awake (ha ha) & be accurate? Note, the new testament, with the Gospels of Christ, are a perfect translation. This, for the reasons; 1) They were written in greek. 2) Written not that long ago. (The old testament translations & it's laws, which Christ has released us from, has been proven accurate by comparison with the dead sea scrolls.) I guess I must now answere the question, "Why I believe Jesus is God." Because he said to Thomas (the doubting one, like my old self) in John 14:6-7,"I am the way....... know me and you know the father." to this Philip asked (also doubting), " Show us the father & it will be enough." Jesus said," If you had known me, you would have known the Father also...... from know on you have seen him." For me being a Christian is easy, "His burdon is light." I just wish the low speed steering in my Mondial were as light. LOL I believe | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
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the key to Jesus' quote " I am the way, etc" is I. what did he mean by I ? Did he meanjust his physical self ? cus in that case only people who lived during his time will be saved, the rest of us r SOL. Did he mean to make himself = to Yahweh ? or was he talking about a larger spiritual I that encompasses all beings ? I vote for the last interpretation | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
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in my case my spiritual life started when I began reading books about Gandhi & MLKjr, that led me to read the Koran & the Bhagavad Gita & Upanishads of Hunduism. All cus I was disatisfied with materialism/capitalism & was searching for something far bigger. Since I was 22 Ive had some staggering spiritual adventures & have witnessed lots of amazing things that "shouldn't" happen according to the status quo of US culture I have found my eternal rock, the place to hang my heart, I am happy, content, & I know I have something now that can never be taken away from me & that will never hurt me | ||
| Chris Tanner (Ctanner)
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The "where you are from" question has always been an intriguing part of religion for me. As a product of the Catholic school system and a graduate of Santa Clara University, a Jesuit college in California, I fuzzily remember discussing in a world religions course in college, the Vatican's approach to addressing the "where you are from" question. (Vatican II, 1960's). I have never agreed with it and it is one of the many things I struggle with in the Catholic church. If you lived in a place where you had not been exposed to Catholicism (not Christianity, but Catholicism), but lived a good and caring life, then without a doubt, you would go to heaven. The term used was "Anonymous Catholic, or Christian" If you had been exposed Catholicism, and not joined it, then your path to heaven is more difficult, or possibly not at all. Of course what they are saying is Catholicism is the way. Which disregards many other sects of Christianity (maybe taking revenge on the Protestants when they split off 500 years ago), as well as the eastern religions. For those of us in the US, who can be exposed to so many religions quite easily, are we all doomed? I think not. Are there any scholarily Catholics in the group who can comment and/or correct my recollections? I think Martin's comments as to the start of religions is correct. That is, to provide a law, guide, a code of ethics, at a time when there was none. People had to be taught "how to be righteous to one another" (Bill & Ted said that). And this guide has indeed become the foundation of all lawful societies. Yet, religion survives. Why? Theoretically, it's not needed anymore. We have a far more thorough guide written in our law books. I don't expect an answer to that question, but I would like to see comments on the first. As to the original question, Born in San Francisco, raised in Silicon Valley before it was Silicon Valley. I really like it here, so I still live here. Engineering degree got me a job with a hi-tech company. My path to getting to today has been a charmed life. Supportive parents, good self esteem, trustworthy friends, an adoring and adorable wife. Still looking for that first Ferrari. I have selected the 348. I have been considering Martin's spider, but I think I prefer the ts. I have a convertible P-car, which I think I may keep forever because it makes me smile. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
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I find your posts interesting, but i just got home and im too da*mn tired to agrue, but tommorrow i will be more than happy to tell you what i think . I wont tell you what to believe though, thats for you to figure out. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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Did you realise that here in Canada, you may form an organised group of three or more people, call it your church, then all the wine you purchase for "sacrament" purposes is tax-free? Amen! P.S. I'm Catholic and that's all that I'll add to this thread. P.S.S. To answer the questions in the title of this thread: 1) I was born in Montreal 2) I'm now in Vancouver 3) Bumpy plane ride That's all folks! | ||
| Mark (Study)
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Allah, Budda, Christ, Atheist They are all good teams to follow. The killing and Nastyness begins when our competive nature combines with the first principle of belief: "there can only be one". I can stop all the wars around the world right now. We can try. All it takes is for people to say out loud "Allah, Christ,Jesus, and Budda are all equaly good ways to get to Heaven" Lets practice. Can anyone really say that? But until that day. We will have war. World war 3 wil start when Iran finishes its program to get the atomic bomb. They know only one bomb will take out all of Isreal. And the people battling for control of Iran's future... well the hard-liners can spit blood they hate Isreal so much. The atomic program in Iran is being sold as development for non-war use. Good Luck. I hope they get my post. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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How come no response on the Bible Quote that "the streets will be paved with Gold." Isn't this a selfish view point of the Christian? Isn't this taking the materialistic things of life with you? Why not take your Ferrari? You see it is all how you interpert the Bible, or whatever your religion may be. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Edward Salla, Do you realize how many times the Bible was translated from the Aramaic version to the King James version to get the version we now have. Many. Not trying to burst your bubble just trying to be realistic. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Christ was a very good man as he is portrayed. He also was a very good politician and was loved for his goodness toward man. He believed and taught the love for your fellow man. Regardless if we believe he was the son of God or not we should recognize that his teachings strengthend the preservation of mankind. This is what we should center on, "The preservation of society in a peaceful existence." Believe as you want, but put peace with your fellow man first. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Mark, Uhhhhhh, What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China? | ||
| Mark (Study)
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Jesus is a name you wouldn't even know if you were born in Malaysia. You would be typing away all about Alli ( I don't even know how to spell it? so sad. I know I'm a dumb American. Sorry World.) Anyway What I have learned. Something I always knew. Largo Highschool Football is GREAT! CLearwater Highschool Football SUCKED! if I lived six streets further west.. I would have had to re-write that statement the other way. LOL I never studied the coaches, players, or histories of the teams. I JUST KNEW I WAS WRITE BECUASE THAT'S WHERE I LIVED! | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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I PREDICT THIS THREAD WILL BE THE GRANDADDY OF ALL OF THEM. Since 9-11 religion has become a more important factor in peoples minds. I wonder why? | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Hey Guys, With all this discussion about religion and heaven, How many of you guys are going to be buried in your Ferrari? Can You Take It With You? | ||
| Robb Good (Robbgood)
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Being American doesn't give us a free pass to heaven. Being born in the right/wrong country with the right/wrong belief system doesn't cut it. The question is who do YOU think Jesus is? | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
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Yes Yes... Jesus is the one true messenger. Thank the Good Lord that we were lucky enough to be born in the right Country and with the correct belief system. God Forbid if we had been born in Inida or Pakistan or China and raised with a different religion. Then we would really be screwed. How very convenient that everybody thinks they are right.... | ||
| Robert W. Good (Robbgood)
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Interesting discussion on "religion." I have a question for William, or anybody else. Who is Jesus? If you believe he is a prophet (teacher), or have "respect" for him, or believe he is the son of God, then you must believe his teachings. Would a prophet (teacher) of such magnitude not tell the truth? If he doesn't tell the truth then he would not be considered a prophet, but a liar. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one gets to the father but through me." This means that ALL others are wrong. I know this is tough language, especially in the U.S. where we are supposed to be so tolerant. Actually, almost ANY conviction you have means that others who disagree would be......in your eyes........wrong? So, back to my initial questions. Who is Jesus? (You will be asked the same question upon entering heaven). | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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It's not your belief or my belief that is the right way. It is the person who closes his eyes for the last time and will die a merciful death knowing his maker is waiting for him. That's what this is all about. The hereafter. The better existence after death. The streets paved with gold. Would you say, a selfish ambition? | ||
| Mark (Study)
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Okay, my turn to ad a new wrinkle Who becomes? -a believer -a follower -faithful - part of the flock -chruchgoer -committed to faith... Are certain personality traits predisposed to be interested in becoming part of a group? Does where you are born dictates your religion? Iran or Texas ? The reason you have the god you have is an accident of birth. Some people look for guideance, and belonging. Other people (like me ) I want to lead and I don't need to have a support group of my peers. If you like my ideas, come with me. If you don't... I'll go alone. I am an adventure and not afraid to "march to my own drum" or worry about what others think of me. Also the small amount of people that bring war and terror... is the trait that makes them seach for meaning and then get lost so far into religion that they become a fantatic?... is that something related in people wanting to belong? I like to help the poor and the sick. But I like to stand up and speak my mind when I don't agree. To many agree because there told that its always been that way. NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME. I know some important people are religious. Our President Bush. He is a big leader.... yet he is happy to join the flock. I guess your parents get a chance to program you and your neighborhood sets your thought pattern before you have a chance to chose for yourself. So what percentage of it is community and what part is personality? I was lucky as a kid to be exposed to lots of people and never settled on one set of ideas. I sought out my own. And enjoyed being free to learn and grow instead of conforming. I'm sure some of you, enjoyed being rasied in a very religous commity or famly and are just happy to be religious in your way. I'm sure its a nice warm beautiful feeling. How are peoples personalities different? | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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ONE ? try several....Ireland, Israel, Afghanistan, several regions in Africa, Pakistan/India, you name it they have a war. Guys, whatever you believe.... I can not accept a religion that is based on fear and intollerance. THAT is the true hell and that is what we have to live with! Its all about reaching inner peace. How can you reach that if you have to live in fear of burning in hell. How can you enjoy your car on the red line if you live in fear of blowing the engine? (to bring it back to subject...LOL, I have started this after all... ) I have not been banned from paradise. I live in it every day! Look around you and see the beauty in things. See what you have and what you have achieved, see who you have helped to better themselves. See the mistakes and be gracious that you have a chance to correct them or not make them again. We are in paradise. I love you all.... William got it right with the Ghandi-quote! Nothing describes it better. I live since more than 2000 years different lifes. Made some horrific mistakes during them and hope that I get closer to total piece in this lifetime! Try hypnosis and see who you were and find your path. All of a sudden religion becomes secondary, or does it not? For you to find out! Find the truth inside of you! | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
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Now that we r approaching a full blown religious discussion I do respect Jesus very much & I can accept him as a diety but to say that all others r wrong is verging on intolerance & there is a war going on right now based in large part on religious intolerance | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
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But remeber not everyone gets in. | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
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They waited in line. It's just an offer of the easiest way I know to get in. The choice is yours. It's like this, I'm offering you a drink. You can accept the drink or decline. I hope you accept it. Now some people are gonna throw the drink in your face, cause they feel you have insulted them. Then the fighting begins. But that isn't the way the owner of the club wants things. Drinks are on the house. So if you say "No Thanks" that is your freedom to do so. I'll just say "No problem" and continue on my way with my drink that never runs out. | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
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That's exactly my point Doug - There is no right or wrong when it comes to God and Religion. I chose Jesus because that is the way I was raised, baptism, communion, confirmation, the whole deal. I go to Church. But I do not think that my way is the ONLY way to reach God. That would be way too close-minded. Every Religion believes they are right, and they each have their way to get people in touch with God. We are all going to the same place, no ONE religion is an EZ-Pass - better or worse than another. God exists, and I believe in Jesus. But I dont tell Muslims that they are going to hell or will have a harder time getting into Heaven. | ||
| Doug Meredith (Doug308)
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I have a question: Richelson states "it takes more to not believe, than to believe." Frank states the hypothetical situation that if he is wrong, then he has wasted his whole life worshipping Jesus. This leads me to believe that it takes a lot of time to believe. Except for interesting discussions like this, I spend no time on the matter at all. Stocking up on R-12 and R-134 at the moment. Doug-"on his way to you know where because a Ferrichat member told me, so it must be true." | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
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OK.. Thanks for clearing that up. Jesus is the E-Ticket way to get to heaven, all other religions which existed way way before Christianity are pipe dreams. Gotcha! | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
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That's the point, there wasn't one. That's why he came. | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
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Really? And before Jesus was born, thousands and millions of years ago, what was the E-Ticket? | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
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Okay my turn again, lol, As I said before we are all human and we will all die. The point of many religions is to better your self, and help others better themselves. In the end the goal is to making it to the supreme place. Some call it Nirvana, Meca, Zion, Zen, Heaven, a higher state of mind, etc. but it's all the same place. One thing is for sure you decide how you get there. To cut to the chase, JESUS is the E-Ticket, short cut, easyway, express lane, V.I.P., way to get on the list of people aloud in the Royal Club. That's all. All you have to do is call him up and ask. Now you could always wait in line and take your chances. I rather pull up in my Ferrari say "I'm on the list." and be told "Wecome, have a good time." | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
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I dont feel defensive about anything. Of course Jesus is not God. Why, do you think Jesus is God? | ||
| Edward Salla (350hpmondial)
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Ernesto, I asked you, because of your proposition to Frank that he should be pious. And, I asked you," do you believe that Jesus is God?" (not vice versa) and, if you are feeling a little bit defensive about that question, what do you feel Frank & I have to do with that. We can't control how you feel. BTW, by refusing to answere,,,,,,,,,,,,, you have. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
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this sounds like it is heading down the path of the post about the guy getting the 360 as a gift. Hold ON!!!! | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
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Do I believe God is Jesus? What kind of question is that? I was raised as a Roman Catholic. I am not even going to answer that question. But there is not only one path to God. You have to respect the different forms of religions and faiths, there is no "correct" method of worship. Different people have different ways of communicating with God. | ||
| Edward Salla (350hpmondial)
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Everyone please quit picking on Frank. Ernesto, "You said you believe in God & Jesus." But do you believe Jesus is God? William, Please don't beg the question with Frank. I believe what Frank was trying to say was, everyone who does not believe what Jesus said was wrong. And Jesus said, "I am the way...........", thus, he was crucified by the Jews, at the hand of the Romans. ( And the Romans kept very good records, no silent mail here.) | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
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So Frank, everyone who is not of your flavor of religion is wrong ? | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
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Webster's New World Dictionary Religion: 1. a) a belief in a divine or superhuman power or powers to be obeyed and worshipped as the creature(s) and ruler(s) of the universe b) expression of such a belief in conduct and ritual. 2. a) any specific system of belief, worship, coduct, etc., often involving a code of ethics and a philosophy (the Christian Religion, the Buddhist Religion, etc), b) any system of beliefs, practices, ethical values, etc, resembling, suggestive of, or likened to such a system. | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
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Listen, I am not going to get into an argument about religion and/or God. I believe in God and Jesus. But not everyone does. Different races and cultures have their own interpretation of who or what God is. You are are no more right than Buddhists, Muslims, et al, than they are. Anybody who says that his God is the only true one and everyone else is wrong about their beliefs and hence will burn in hell is just a fanatic. Under this theory half the planet and all who lived before Christianity millions of years ago are going to or are in hell. I am sure aliens in other planets also believe in God and Jesus, or is this belief system only for our Galaxy? | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
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The word "religion" just means something done habitually. It has nothing to do with God. There are a lot of religious people out there who know nothing about God. From a pure selfish point of view, think of this: If you're right and I'm wrong the worse thing that has happened is I have wasted my life worshipping Jesus. If I'm right and you're wrong I go to heaven and where is it that you go ? By the way, I'm right on this. | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
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There is no ONE religion. We must respect ALL religions out there, becaue we are all entitiled to our beliefs. Every culture and every society throughout time has had their own religion, and it has evolved through time. I guarantee you than in 500 years, religion will look completely different than it does today. So, by definition there is no one correct religion. | ||
| Edward Salla (350hpmondial)
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Well said Frank. Religion is a government. but, as the man said, "Your faith has saved you." (I have seen that most people who discount the four Gospels, have never read them.) Note; Charles Darwin accecpted the truth, before he died. | ||
| Dave L (Davel)
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Lets be careful not to pontificate here. We are all human and there is NO definitive proof for any religion being better or more right than another. Time for Rob to ax this thread and get back to chat about Ferrari's. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
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I guess the moment after you die you budda, muslim and other non-Christian guys will find out who was correct. And you will need much more than a Ferrari AC system to keep cool. The Bible is clear that there is only one way to God and that is through his Son, Jesus Christ. Study the Bible, compare it's message of Love to other so-called religions, look at it's prophisies and how they have been proven to have came true by modern science and I think you will agree that it is the inspired word of God. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
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Arthur I think that depends very much on which religion u choose. I chose Buddhism for many reasons, 1 reason is cus I agree with Arthur Clarke that Buddhism is "The most Intelectual of religions" For instance we had a knowledge of the multiple universe thousands of years ago, we discovered the scientific theory of nonlocality before the birth of Christ, there r many other cases where Buddhism is advanced well beyond conteporary science in psychology, study of the mind/matter relationship, quantum physics & more | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
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Martin: In the foreword to Hawkings' Brief History of Time, Carl Sagan wrote (I'm paraphrasing): Hawkings wrote a book with many mentions of God, but he describes a universe without any for that God to do. Einstein's greatest regret was the use of the universal constant to his general theory of relativity. He made that addition because without it, the theory implied an ever expanding universe which originaled from what is commonly called the "big bang". Thta sort of universe was contrary to his religious beliefs. It seems to me that religion is based upon obsolete technology and if taken literally, provably wrong. It does provide a general ground work for running a society. The angst and anger over religion and the people fighting over their versions of the same fairy tale are demonstrable proof of the cosmic joke that has been played upon the human race when it comes to religion. I'm becoming a Martinist. Art | ||
| Mark (Study)
|
Ok sticking to the original question Born in 65 at the Breakers in West Palm Beach where my dad was an asst. Golf Pro. Grew up on the beach and in the swamp, loved exotic animals. Had way too many pets to ever list here. Studied and got degrees in science and business. Got a job right out of college as a TV Producer for a Golf TV Show. Traveled to many nice golf resorts. Did the creative thing for a few years, and became an expert on teaching golf. 1998 Moved to Michigan to start my own buinsess and triple my salary (cold weather pay) so I could afford to move back to Florida by 2002 and buy place on the beach and a Ferrari. So far I'm with-in 12 months of my orginal plan. I am a Headhunter and place engineers and executives in wireless, medical, and automotive industry. Came to Ferrari chat 6 months ago to buy a 328 but wanted more speed. So as I spent time researching 348's I found the falling prices so helpful, that is has now put me in reach of a 355. So I am ready to learn about the 355. Grew up with a great family and had a fantastic childhood where my mother and father encouraged us to explore the world and gave us room to make our own mistakes. | ||
| Mark (Study)
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Most recent examples- *ban stem cell research in USA *trying to stop reasearch on cloning for medical advancments. Howevery, I still love religion for two reasons- *First, its my favorite debate topic. Very interesting stuff. *Second.. I find the jokes on the Simpsons just so much fun. Ned Flanders even won an award from organized religion as a good modern influence. | ||
| Peter Boray (Gts308qv)
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At the risk of being burnt at the stake ! Religion has made 2 contributions to civilisation. It helped in the early days to fix the calendar, and it caused the Egyptian priests to chronicle eclipses with such care that in time they became able to predict them. Otherwise I regard it as a disease born of fear, a source of untold misery to the human race and an opponent of all intellectual and moral progress. Most recent example - 9/11. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
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I totally agree with Ernie. It takes more to not believe than to believe. I love life and GOD has made Everything possible for me. I thank GOD many times a day. I cannot express into words what GOD has done for my life and what GOD means to me. | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
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Hey Todd, Did we answer your queston?........ha ha ha! Look just try this a few times. After you have tried unsuccessfuly to do something, ask GOD to help. Then, continue on with what you were doing with out thinking about it. Let me know what happens. GOD always answers. So times it's yes, somtimes no, and sometimes it's wait. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
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Ok sticking to the original question Born in 64 in Puerto Rico, Father is from the US, Mom is Argentine. My Mom told me about Fangio early on, My father & Uncle used to race Midgets back in the early 50s My first Ferrari memory was when I was in school in the US about 6 years old. I ordered this book about racing cars. When it arrived in school I was looking through it & i flipped a page & there was a 330P4, I still think its 1 of the top 3 auto designs ever. I was sold on Ferrari from that moment I was lucky enough to be born into a wealthy family which made owning a Ferrari considerably easier. what would I have changed ? At 37 I would get a time machine & correct a few things I did in the past. Mostly I would have started racing seriously at the age of 5 but my parents never supported me besides in 1971 in Connecticut there were no go kart racing tracks  | ||
| F-J'87EuroTR (Ferrarijoe)
|
I'm not trying to be rude, but I'll try this one more time to see if Ferrari is what this site is all about! 1. Where some of you got started. Lets see.............. It all started in a Texas town called San Antonio, 1957. I was the son of a Military man who had seen his share of war abroad as well as at home. At 6 years old and when my parents divorced, I stayed with my Pop in Texas. He raised me until I went to Texas A&M on a football scholarship (he could have never sent me to college on what he made and I wasn�t smart enough to work and go to school). I decided to go into the Army in 1980 and retired in 2000 with the whole time in SOF. 2. What made you want a Ferrari, and what made it possible. My Pop taught me how to work on cars and I bought a �76 Porsche 911S in 1983 and took it with me to Europe in 1989 (it sure loved the Autobahn!). That same year I went to my first ever F1 race at the Hungaroring with my buddy who also had a �75 911S. Saw Nigel Mansell in the Ferrari beat Ayrton Senna with a late laps move to win the race. As they where spraying the Champaign and with all the red (Tifosi) moving everywhere, I turned to Jerry and said, �My next sports car will be a Ferrari�. It was a tall order but 9 ½ years later and saving every penny I could from spending 4 ½ out of 7 years in Bosnia; I bought my �87 TR from a fantastic gentleman named Art Siri in Colorado Springs. 3. Where are you now, and how did you get there?? I would be in Texas now but my Pop died on 23 Jan. 1998, so I settled here in the booming metropolis of DuPont WA after my retirement and subsequent divorce, (Apparently I was home too much after retiring). You know the story, she kept the house and I kept the TR. Which like some of you, I do all the maintenance on. 4. And what would you have changed along the way?? The only thing I would have changed if I could, is I would have spent more time with my Pop. He was the best man I will ever know and it sure would be nice if he were still around to be with. Cheers, Joe Duch | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
|
Mark , thats a good question, I'll have to think about a good answer I believe in what Gandhi said " All religions are but different paths up the same mountain" People who dont understand this r the ones likely to get into fights about religion | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
|
People fighting over religious differences is mind boggling to me, but thats easy to say for some of us because we dont know what the people fighting beleive in. Rob- you should have an off topic section for discussions like this. I know i enjoy discussing things like this, how about anyone else? | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
|
Thats a tough question that we wil never be able to answer completely, but i think its because people are unwilling and afraid to change. If you look throughout history people were unwiling and never wanted to change their customs or way of life so much that wars started over it. I know im afraid of change and wouldnt want to change my language, which is wierd because i took 5 years of language and had no problem. Thats one of those questions that people who belong to mensa argue about for 2 weeks. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
|
this is way off the topic of F-cars but what the heck- While I don't completly agree that people fully agree on math I understand your point. The diff with math and religion is math can generally be proven, religion generally can't yet people spend time trying to prove religion to each other - many times in violent ways | ||
| Mark (Study)
|
I do have a religous question. Can any one help me!? I working on a new theory. If you go to the four corners of the Earth, you can see that mathamatics has evolved the same. It doesn't matter weather your in China, Germany, Iran, Isreal all the same when it comes to math. Math and language are two of the most important factors in daily life. I love engineers, they make the modern world possable. Math seems more important then language..since it has only one real truth. Yet language, culture, traditions, are all different in these differnt places on the globe. Why can all the people of earth agree on Math, but can't agree on a language? I would guess that math is a true one-ness in the universe. Yet something like language there must be 50 major languages based on geography. How many major religions are there in the world? Mathamatics shows that all the people of the world can agree on something. Why doesn't religion have that kind of track record? Why do humans fight wars over religions? Yet agree on an important tool like Math? (this is fun to me, because I came up with a new idea. I always enjoyed a good debate.) | ||
| Edward Salla (350hpmondial)
|
Martin, Thanks for starting this thread. I stand corrected, Enzo perfected the "race" car. (ha ha) These road going versions (and the money we lovingly (foolishly?) pump into them) were only created to support his passion. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
|
Amen Martin! Also, the check engine light is God communicating for you to take care of one of his greatest gifts. ;0 | ||
| Mark (Study)
|
William -"Mark, you do realize that Einstein was a devout Jew?" My favorite science teacher in college was very big into religion. Didn't stop either of us from asking "why?" and "how?" We both noticed that it made some people un-comfortable. I just want those same folks to realize that us "curious types" are just as uncomfortable when told "just believe". This is not about religion! but a personality study into different types of people and how they re-act to things. That's all. Isn't it neat how we are all different?( I like the side skates on the TR) Richelson- "I guess we know who is going to Hell." You know... ever since I learned that the core of this planet is liquid... and that magnetic lava fields in our plant's core act like wind and weather patterns on the Earths surface (or even plasma fields on the suns service). I've been fascinated by the study of planet core forecasting technology. Kind of makes recent discoveries in plate techtonics look like old-school. I love progress in learning. How fascinating! The things my Grand Father could have never imagined...even after being a farmer and working with the soil all his life. Blows my mind really. Some people like science, some people like religion,... some even like opera. Nothing wrong with that. Every-one needs something to engage their mind. Thanks Martin for bringing this up. (trouble maker) I'm not letting you off the hook | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
Darn, Enzo never perfected the car..., if he would have I would not have a check engine light | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Buddhism has it right on: "striving to be a better being" | ||
| Edward Salla (350hpmondial)
|
As Magoo tried to say, "God made the simple things of this world, to confound the wise, and the wise things to confound the foolish." (I'm glad he gave Enzo the means to perfect the car.) | ||
| Edward Salla (350hpmondial)
|
How did Matthew, Mark, Luke & John, all from different time periods, get it right on? (Silent mail it is not.) Read the Bible, yourself. Look at all of the evidence, yourself. "Even the stars in the heavans, proclaim the truth." | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
Martinism is all of the below and more: Looking past a book that was writen 1000 years ago but passed on by story tellers for the first 1000 years. Translated from all kinds of languages and then compiled into one book. Looking at history and what the bible really says and how to correctly interpret each story. There was no Adam and Eve and there was no Paradise. Well, there still is Adam and Eve and we are living in Paradise. Who was Jesus. He was a charismatic man that has spoken against opression and was able to give hope and joy in times of need. In Germany we have a game that children play. It is called silient mail. One whispers a story into the next kids ear and that kid whispers in into the next and so on. Then you compare what the story was when the last kid got it and what the first kid whispered....kind of like the stories in the Bible were told over the years, now add translation to it and here you go... Religion teaches human behaviour, Decency, it gives the ground rules for life with each other, that is why the 10 commandments are the basics for every legal system in each country. My point (and yes, I do have one..)is that all of this has to be looked at right. Is there a God? Well, that depends on what GOD is to you. If it is the old man with the beart, you aint goin to heaven. If GOD is a higher sense on why you are on this planet and why you are living your life then you are right, there is a GOD. Those who believe in each bible story word by word are misguisded and completely miss the point of faith. There was no splitting the waters by MOses, there was no Arc that had all Gods animals on board (boy I am going to hear about that), there was no arm reaching down from heaven and handing the 10 commandments. Read between the lines is what I am saying. GOD is a word and personal interpretations are what started all the religious wars. In the end it is all the same thing. You call it God, I call it nature, William calls it ZEN. It is inner peace on your journey to a positive life! No books about Martinism BTW, if there is anough interest maybe I should start one though Guys, please do not feel offended by what I am writing. You can not believe how close we are on the subject it is the execution we are different but what counts is only the outcome. If GOD makes you a better man, please do so, but it is not the religion that makes you a better man. pick and choose and question... | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
|
Buddhists dont necesarily believe in a Creator God, though some do. I think the important thing regardless of your beliefs is to do something to show gratitude for all the blessings you have recieved. Whether you want to show gratitude to God, Budda, the Universe, or your ancestors, I think its important to show it to some1 | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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boy what have I started....LOL | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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boy what have I started....LOL | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
|
Hey everyone, SLOW DOWN! This is what shuts people off to GOD, is arguing. We are ALL human. We were born and we will die. Questioning is good. Shaking things up is good and sometimes fun. Jesus rattled the cages so hard that it led to his crusifiction. But thats what he was after, and he was rattling them for us. Science says "prove it". Some have to see it, to beleave it, and even then some still don't wanna beleave. They think there is some "trick" to it. Just the same way little kids wanna see the majicians hands after he did something amazing. Do they want to disprove the trick? OH no! They wanna learn how to do it so they can go show there friends, and amaze them too. But will the majician show the child how he chained himself up, got into a box, lit it on fire, blew it up, only to dissapear and then reappear standing next the kid. NO. Why? Because that amount of information could get the child killed. We don't have certain things revealed to us by GOD because it could get us killed. At the right time he will lets us know, what we need to know. Another thing is often people just wanna know for their own selfish reasons, and not share. Then there are those that look to find out what should never be revealed to them and find it out! Now look at the trouble this has caused. Take your Ferrari's for example. Are you gonna let a child have the keys and say, "go on take the car as fast as you want". What are you crazy. But then there are those kids that find the keys to dads car in the middle of the night. At the right time any father would be proud to let his child drive the Ferrari. GOD says have faith. Yet some don't wanna beleave that is the "trick". | ||
| F-J'87EuroTR (Ferrarijoe)
|
1. Where some of you got started. Lets see����.. It all started in a Texas town called San Antonio, 1957. I was the son of a Military man who had seen his share of war abroad as well as at home. At 6 years old and when my parents divorced, I stayed with my Pop in Texas. He raised me until I went to Texas A&M on a football scholarship (he could have never sent me to college on what he made and I wasn�t smart enough to work and go to school). I decided to go into the Army in 1980 and retired in 2000 with the whole time in SOF. 2. What made you want a Ferrari, and what made it possible. My Pop taught me how to work on cars and I bought a �76 Porsche 911S in 1983 and took it with me to Europe in 1989 (it sure loved the Autobahn!). That same year I went to my first ever F1 race at the Hungaroring with my buddy who also had a �75 911S. Saw Nigel Mansell in the Ferrari beat Ayrton Senna with a late laps move to win the race. As they where spraying the Champaign and with all the red (Tifosi) moving everywhere, I turned to Jerry and said, �My next sports car will be a Ferrari�. It was a tall order but 9 ½ years later and saving every penny I could from spending 4 ½ out of 7 years in Bosnia; I bought my �87 TR from a fantastic gentleman named Art Siri in Colorado Springs. 3. Where are you now, and how did you get there?? I would be in Texas now but my Pop died on 23 Jan. 1998, so I settled here in the booming metropolis of DuPont WA after my retirement and subsequent divorce, (Apparently I was home too much after retiring). You know the story, she kept the house and I kept the TR. Which like some of you, I do all the maintenance on. 4. And what would you have changed along the way?? The only thing I would have changed if I could, is I would have spent more time with my Pop. He was the best man I will ever know and it sure would be nice if he were still around to be with. Cheers, Joe Duch | ||
| Dave L (Davel)
|
I think I remember a song which had the lyrics "philosophy is a slippery rock, religion...is a smile on a dog". Whatever god or gods made this place has alot better things to do, that to worry about this little blue marble called earth. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
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I guess we know who is going to Hell!!!! | ||
| Doug Meredith (Doug308)
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What is GOD's favorite team sport? I think football comes first. I don't think I've ever seen a post game interview without some player telling me that GOD was with them and helped them win. If GOD is there during their wins, why isn't he there for them during the losses? I wonder if GOD likes hockey? I don't think anyone has ever told me he was at the Stanley Cup Championship. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
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Mark, you do realize that Einstein was a devout Jew ? | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
|
Ah, I see some believers and non believers of the supreme being "God". It seems some may have to see some signs to believe... well let me tell you,,, you must believe to see the signs and only then you will know the truth. What happens when your time is up on this planet? The day you die? forget the Ferrari... faith comes first.. for real... after that, everything good awaits you...... just remember that.... | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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I shouldn't do this. "What Church?" | ||
| Peter Boray (Gts308qv)
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Above all, we must remain free-thinkers and be aware of the danger of looking to religion for help and becoming dogmatic in it's belief. The Church has laid down the dogma that the existence of God can be proved by unaided reason. I think our own hearts can teach us, no longer to look round for imaginary supports, but rather to look to our own effort here in the real world to make it a fit place to live in. The future demands a fearless outlook and a free intelligence. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
|
Mark, I also hope as you do that we haven't stepped on any toes. I couldn't let it go by without commenting. Like Rob says lets keep our comments civil. This doesn't need to go further cause this is a Ferrari site and "God" knows we all love em. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
|
Mark your statement about who made God is a interesting one. It reminds me of the debates we used to have in college. I couldn't let it go by without comment. Don't you see, Who made God is beyond everyones comprehension. No matter what kind of supreme deity you believe in it is always beyond the realm of ones comprehension. That is what makes it or him or whatever, the mystery of ones belief and where one finds comfort in believing as they do. You can never identify God or a supreme deity by asking logical questions like "Who made God?" As it says in the Bible "Accept it with the faith of a little child." Unless you can do that you will never find it. This is why many people have the question in their minds about a supreme deity or God. Just imagine yourself inside a circle which is existence. Within the circle everything is relative. Can something come from nothing? Answer, "NO." That is why you bring up the question "Who made God." Go beyond that circle and you have gone past the relative theory. This is the comfort zone for all religious beliefs. This is why it is hard to prove that there is no "GOD." By now you must think this guy is a religious "nut". That couldn't be further from the truth. I'm not a atheist but somewhat of a agnostic. Just thought I would comment on your interesting analogy. Religion, like politics is a dangerous topic for some. Much like your Grandfather would say,"Break a few eggs." Oh and I won't tell you that is the way it has always been. That's a easy way out. Very interesting. BRGDS, Magoo | ||
| Chris Young (Bimmerboy)
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"All in all, GOD is a comfort food." very, very well put, Mark. | ||
| TWA (Exoticars)
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If God created the world in six days and chose Sunday to rest............ then why is that the day that everybody picks to bug him? | ||
| Mark (Study)
|
I like talking about the GOD thing. Its fun. I wish people wouldn't be scared to talk about it. People being too sensitive is what this world has become. I miss people like my Grand Father that use to step on a few toes from time to time with his honesty. Break a few eggs, he called it. Shake up the conversation. I only have one un-answered problem when it comes to GOD. If God made us. Then who made GOD? Using GOD logic... the way complex things get put into this universe is by being made by more complex magical things. So who makes those things? I prey to GOD's God the creator of God. He seems more powerful. But then who created GOD's God? See my problem? My favorite quote from sciene... "What will we use GOD for when we eventualy slove the mysterys of Death?" GOD use to be important for the growing of crops to our primitive ancesters. But as science learned about growing food supplies... GOD became more important for Death.. the current mystery our brains can't understand. Scientist think the next GREAT UN-Know would be the size of space, and the vastness of time. Maybe a 5000 years from now when the mysterys of death are sloved...the concept of GOD will help people feel more comfortable about how small we are compaird to the vastness of time and space? All in all, GOD is a comfort food. I guess when we study it with logic and modern advances... its probably not a good idea. Carbon Dating, the Fossile Record, Plate Techtonics, Airplanes and Deep Earth exploration have not exactly helped the old heaven and hell, and other colorful bible stories. Religion works best when you take it as it was writen.... a long long time ago in a Galaxy far away. (I know.. that's the opening line from Star Wars) But with technology moving at the pace it has moved in the last 50 years... that fariy tale's opening line... isn't that far off. Sorry, didn't mean to step on any toes. Its just that people with creative minds don't feel welcome in orgainized religion. I like to ask "Why?" And I hate the answer "well its always been that way". | ||
| TWA (Exoticars)
|
Yeah, I agree as I do not know anyone or have heard of anyone that has 'asked what God tastes like'. Hmmmm. That's just plain weird, man. Just a joke, Ernie....go easy on me. | ||
| Chris Young (Bimmerboy)
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Argueing the existance of god is completely pointless. It's a matter of opinion, as there is no material evidence of whether god exists or doesn't. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
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I'm a Buddhist & doing 170mph in my 512TR is definately a Zen experience Talk about being IN the moment | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
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He existed before we were around, so the answer is yes. You have heard the question: " If a tree falls it the woods and there isn't a man to hear it, does it still make a noise?" Well ask yourself this: " If there is a man in the woods and there is no woman to hear him, is he still wrong?" hahahaaa oh man, I'm gonna hear it for that one | ||
| Doug Meredith (Doug308)
|
I feel and see the effects of gravity every day of my life. I have never ever felt or seen GOD but you tell me he exists, so I guess it must be true. What if nobody believed in GOD, would he exist? Where do I get a book on this Martinism philosophy? Sounds interesting. Doug | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
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AMEN on that Ernie ! | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
|
I will say this, GOD exists weather you beleive in him or not. Some people ask what does He look, smell, taste, sound like? Well ask yourself this, what does gravity look like, taste like, sound like, smell like. Can't answer? So how do you know gravity exists, the same way you know GOD exists you feel it! As for religion, well, the only religion GOD respects is this. Taking care of the widows, orphans, the poor. The problem is that nobody like's to have anything forced on them, and as kids many of us had religion crammed down our necks, be it Roman Catholisism, Budism, Islham, etc. and no one liked it. Focus on a relationship with GOD, and quit bickering over who is right. GOD wants you to love him cause you want to, not cause you have to. If you don't want to know GOD, or have a relationship with him, then that is the choice you are entitled to. We all have made bad choices in our lives, and GOD gives us a life time to make the one right choice. It is too bad that in this country, people have put their trust in the mighty dollar, instead of the ALL MIGHTY, whose name is printed on that same piece of paper. Christ Jesus was Crusified. Thats all I know. | ||
| 1989 328 GTS (Vilamoura2002)
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Many tks, Martin. I always like to sit on nice tables :-) as well as inside nice cars, sorry for being unmodest ;| | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Vilamoura, what a beautiful dinner table. Rob, you are welcome as a Martinist | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Dave, what can one say about this...whow!Where I disagree is the "few mistakes in life I made...". There are no mistakes. Everytime it looked as if it was a mistake, it turns out to be a great help for the future. Here is a man that has been beaten down over an over and always gets up. There is no better example or spirit that one can hope for. Just as a baby is trying to walk and falls and gets up again to walk until that one day when it does not fall anymore and finally walks. Very inspiring Dave. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
|
When we stick to Ferraris, you know it will be ok, because we all feel the same way. However, this is an interesting thread to experiment with if we continue to stay cool. Where are you now, and how did you get there? Dad was Presbyterian minister and mom was school teacher and then elementary school principal. Grew up only child in small towns throughout Mid-west. A little slow to develop social skills as only child and thought the world revolved around me. Through some growing pains finally learned to interact with the world, but still very self motivated to over achieve. I learned I could get more for my world through being nice to your world. Religion? Junior high confirmation couldn't answer all my questions about God or Jesus, so said I would pass on the church for now and go on my own voyage. I'm still on that voyage and forever will be. Who are we to say we know or try to spell it out in print? I'm with Martin that spirituality is the important element and it can be reached in many different ways. Religion is often just a way for people to humanize what can't be humanized. My core religious organization is the Unitarian Universalists. They accept every faith and take a more intellectual searching to advance one's spirituality, but never expecting to find absolute answers. Most of the founding fathers of this country were Unitarians/Universalists, not Christians as most people think. I think all religions and denominations have taken steps towards spirituality. I actually attend church over a broad range of Christian denominations. I wish to experience the other religions beyond books in this same way too. I've actually found that speaking with people of other religions gives you more insight into the "real world" being of that faith. I have good friends that are Islamic, Catholic, Jewish, and Hindu. This is an area I want to spend more time with over the rest of my life. I know the direction I want to start walking, but like above, I've mainly only done the talking. What made you want a Ferrari and what made it possible? Saw first Ferrari with Magnum PI and really fell in love with it on Miami Vice. Had books, mags, posters, models, and then was forever hooked when I saw my first one in person... a TR in little ole Salina, Kansas in the late eighties. What would you have changed along the way? Nothing. Experience is a better gift than doing it right and not knowing. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
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Ken, Buddhism is simultaneously a religion & a philosophy. Difference between Buddhism & other faiths is that you can practice Buddhist philosopy & still be a Jew, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or whatever | ||
| 1989 328 GTS (Vilamoura2002)
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I come from my Christmas Dinner Before the Nice Family Meeting Fantastic Meal  | ||
| Todd (Tkrefeld)
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Now THIS is a great thread!! I wasn't concerned about who likes the rossa cheese grates, the front or mid engine, and the interior color. I was hoping for exactly the kind of posts that are here. I am interested in the "people", what they beleive, who they are, where they come from and all that..Very good stuff. No, I am not a shrink..(or studying to be one) | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
|
I was born in Norfolk, Virginia from very poor parents who believed that children were just for the benefit of their parents. That parents did not need to make any effort to raise their kids. Started to work in my father�s store when I was 5. Never had a childhood, when I grow up I want to be a big kid. For a while lived with step grand parents who were physical abusers. Then lived with mother and step-dad who was a violent alcoholic. Went to the University of Virginia under a DuPont scholarship due to academic excellence - wanting to be a doctor, a medical missionary (religious period). Not ready for college and flunked out. However, became interested in the outdoors and outdoor photography. Studied photography at the New York Institute of Photography while holding down a full time job and a part time job. In one of these jobs became the youngest film lab manager in NYC. Lived in a cold water flat in Greenwich Villege. Drafted into the Army, I was selected for Engineer Officer Candidate School. While in OCS, brother was killed in Vietnam, apparently by his own men. Single M-16 round to the back of the head at point blank range. At this time started to see war as a necessary evil. Bought an Austin Healey 3000 Mk III while in OCS. When OCS got rough, though this was for the Healey or though about making love to my girlfriend. Finishing OCS, became a paratrooper and was honor graduate from Atomic Demolitions School. If there was ever a limited nuclear war, was trained to jump behind enemy lines with a nuclear bomb on my chest to hand place. Was also scheduled to become a Green Beret, but canceled this due to my feelings on war. Worked in the DC area, then spent a year commanding ammunition depots in Korea since I had pissed off the wrong people. I turned around large problem depots. Getting out of the Army, studied with Ansel Adams, Robin Perry, etc. Then worked as a Scientific and Technical Photographer and movie maker for the US Government plus had my own business doing commercial/fine art photography. Exhibited and had great sales world wide. Traveled much of the world. Got interested in computers to save time � became an expert. Then a friend started a fire and my place on the Atlantic Ocean burned to the ground. Got to watch for 12 hours while everything I had worked for went up in smoke. Adjuster said that my personal loses were $99,208.25, with $5,000 covered by insurance. Escaped with the clothes on my back and my vehicle. Worked in Civil Service in California and Hawaii. Married my pregnant girlfriend. Then came to the top-secret nuclear, biological, chemical labs at Dugway Proving Grounds in Utah. Hired as an instrumentation photographer, I spent my time doing project planning, project administration, data analysis, and software development. The US Government has used several of my programs in technology exchanges with other governments. When the marriage started to fall apart, my wife at the time went to my enemies to find a way to get me fired. That worked, and she then sued me saying that I should pay her based on what I could have made. When that did not work and she did not get the property settlement she wanted, she took my tax records and called IRS to say I was cheating on my taxes, which I was not. IRS audited me, ex had the records, so IRS said that I owed them $100,000.00 since I did not have the records. Always cheers one up to get a bill for $100,000.00 when one is out of work. After several years, IRS agreed to settle for $1,200 rather than $100,000. Then tripled the sales of a company in Santa Fe. Ex sued again, went bankrupt. On welfare. Homeless. Now have my own company again. In a couple of weeks will have my first airplane (a new one) delivered. After that will get a Mercedes Unimog to convert into a go anywhere motor home/expedition vehicle. Then my first Ferrari, probably early spring. Became interested in Ferraris the beginning of this year when I was consulting in Las Vegas. I was attracted to their beauty and the memories of how much fun the Healey was. Currently my home is in Park City Utah where the Olympics will be. However, I am 1,800 miles away in Cincinnati Ohio consulting. Looking over the many stupid mistakes I have made, there are many things I wish I could change. However, I would not be the person I am unless I had made the mistakes. I have had some tragedy, but I have also had far more joy than the average person. I think the secret is to be able to say on one�s deathbed that overall it was a life well spent. The Ferrari will be another step in that direction. Dave Wapinski | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
Mark; I am still laughing. No worshiping me, no "admission"-fee of 10% of your net earning, no books, no days for prayer. Everytime you smile you are a Martinist! William, during my pre-Martinist years, I felt closest to Buddhism as well. A peaceful crowd and so close to nature, although there are also some extremists they appear far less than in most others. Ken, secretly practicing Martinism, ehy? To all others that have send personal e-mails, thanks for your thoughts. Great to know I am not alone with my thoughts. "Not that there is anything wrong with that (being religious) - quote from Seinfeld. Sorry Todd to change the subject on your topic. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
|
Buddhisim is a philosophy, not a religion. I too look to nature as opposed to the old superstitious written texts to find the truths in life. Nature doesn't lie or make moral judgements while people, especially those who preach, tend to be full of crap. But if following ancient superstitions makes others happy, I'm not throwing stones. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
|
Oh Boy, Martin started the religious discussion, I can see the flames start shooting already I'm a Buddhist, of the Tibetan Vajrayana persuasion. Dont go to temple often as they r exceedingly rare in Argentina. A bit easier to find in the US. But its not really the kind of religion/philosophy that demands u attend temple constntly | ||
| Mark (Study)
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Hey Martin (looking to make some trouble?) Now that you have declared yourself GOD. I have one question??? I want to join your religion. How do you want to be prasied? How much money should I send you? and...pssst, hey... do you want me to kill anyone for you? :-) Your first member of the Flock of the church of South Beach I hope you all get that I'm joking here... People can have religion and still have a sences of humor. Other-wise it gets nasty real fast. (kind of like P-car owners) everyone has a right to have fun the way they choose to enjoy their life. Everyone has the right to make jokes and if you can't laugh at yourself... then people start getting nasty...and that's a shame. Want to hear my favorite religous joke? Bart Simpson ask... "dad why do we have to go to church on Sunday and worship and parise GOD?" Hommer replys "becuase God is very insecure" :-) I'm still laughing about that one. My Motto in life.. Never stop asking "why?" and never take anything so serious that you become a fanatic. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Tim, I am not religious. As most of you have guessed from some of my other posts (ended in heated battles) I am a "Martinist". In October I declared myself GOD and since then life has become easier. Nothing to conform to or listening to some guy preaching what he reads into the bible. September 11 has taught me one thing: If a book can be read and interpreted in a way to kill people as a cause I rather not "believe" in it. Tousands of people got killed because of the Koran, because of the Bible, because of the jewish teachings. It is still all aroungd us today, I am not even talking about the middle ages. Ireland, Israel, Afghanistan and lots of other places. What most here write as thanking God is really thanking the ability to open their minds. Some achieve this by praying to "God" , by meditating or whatever medium it takes one to achieve this state of mind. Once you have been there you will actually see what you are capable of as a being. Your mind achieves what goals you set him. If you release that there are limits, there will be none! Spirituality has nothing to do with religion, nor with Vodca/Orange. Lets hear it guys... | ||
| William_Huber (Solipsist)
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I'm an only child brought up in private schools & funded by the G.W. Haltom trust fund. I come from a family of jewelers, lived a good life but always believed that I must pull my own weight, don't carry me. I've worked on ranches, low paying retail mgmt jobs, owned a part in a small BMX stunt company, to high end car dealerships. my success is fueled for my passion for not only Ferraris, but all rare autos. That makes me happy. I just want to enjoy all that this world can offer me & expecting great things towards the future. Keep looking forward my friends & let nothing stop you. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
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First i would like to thank martin for wishing that i become bankrupt one day, thats very thoughtful of you. But seriously, i see how one could learn from such an experience. Its weird because i cant answer these questions the same way you all can. I come from a middle class family, father is a parter and LLGM, my mom is a retired dental hygenist (now a full time gardener, i cant walk through my yard without steping on a plant and getting yelled at.) I have 3 older sisters, 2 of them are out of college living in boston and dc, the other goes to ithaca. Right now i am a high schooll senior and a college applicant. If i could change anyhting, i would have taken school seriously before 3 yrs ago but better late than never i guess. I noticed many people thank God for their sucess. Is anyone else roman catholic and doesnt agree with some of it too? i believe in god, but not the roman catholic church. I feel it perverts the bible. I dont base my life on it though, i live my life based on my morals and convictions, not someone elses. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
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I am the oldest of the two sons of an electrician and a housewife. I grew up poor in Southwest Georgia quitting school at 17 years old to join the Navy. While in the Navy I lived in Italy for a while and got my GED and started taking some college courses. Once out, I earned my BA and then went on to law school where I earned my JD in 1985. I've been practicing law every since. I first wanted a Ferrari back as a kid back in the late 1960s. I used to read all the car magazines that the public library subscibed to dreaming about owning a 275, a 330 or a 365. After I started making a little money in the late 1980s I bought my first Ferrari, a 1986 328GTS. I have since also owned a 400GT, a TR, a 330GTC and now a 348 Spider. All of this was made possible by GOD through my savior the LORD JESUS CHRIST through faith. Without HIM not only would it not have been possible, it wouldn't have mattered anyway. | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
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I heard that James! Upper education is very overpriced for what you get. Had I just gone to a state college instead of a private one, I would be up $30k too. Besides the only thing you learn in college is how to drink, hahaa. | ||
| david schirmer (David)
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Where did you come from? Where am I now? And how did I get here?.... It seems to me that those are the questions William H will be asking after his New Years Party ;) | ||
| James P. Smith (Tigermilk)
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Where I'm from? Ann Arbor Michigan and then a detour through Dallas. Grew up in a white collar, middle class household. Where am I now? Pearland Texas, a suburb of Houston, where I do my part to put men and women into outer space. How did I get here? I went back to Ann Arbor for college. Was missing my girl friend from high school and heard NASA had a student program. High-tailed it down to Houston to be closer to her. Graduated. Married the high school sweetheart (aww, ain't that darlin'), and some 10 years later we's still hitched and I'm enjoying my 6 weeks worth of vacation a year. What made me want a Ferrari? Too much time playing F355 in the arcade and at home on the Dreamcast. Never thought I'd be able to get one, but thank goodness for depreciation and used cars! What would I have changed? That's a tough one. On the one hand my first father died when I was young. Life is full of sliding doors. If he were still alive I'd be sitting somewhere else in a different life but without the sorrow of losing a parent. But then again, because of that tragedy I've got another wonderful father and an even better wife and soul mate that I've known for half my life of 32 years. That's the biggest tragedy that I'd have to debate about. Death is a bad thing, but sometimes there is good that comes from it. I was fortunate. A less trivial answer would be to skip going to UM for school. Too much money for an undergraduate education. I could have gotten the same education for less and been $30K or so up from tuition savings. | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
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Oh almost forgot MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!! | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
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Where I came from: A divorced, working, poor family Where I am now: Upper middle class What I do: I'm a master control technical director for a television station. For those of you wondering what that is, if I mess up the TV goes black! What made me want a Ferrari: Well lets see....... I would have to say the biggest influence was "Miami Vice". That and they are fast. How I got where I am: The ONLY reason I am where I am in life is because of GOD! About five years ago my wife and I where just about on full blown welfair. I finally gave up trying it my way got on my knees and asked for GOD to take over. Now we have a brand new house, an SUV, and I now have the car I dreamed of as a kid..... a Ferrari. Find heaven first then the rest will be given to you. What good is a Ferrari or wealth, if you haven't saved the most valuable thing you have ever been given, your soul. GOD gave his son JESUS CHRIST for you why wouldn't he give you some dumb material thing. He gave me a FERRARI and that is just the begining!!!! What I would have changed along the way: I would have turned to GOD sooner. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
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Very succesful, intelligent, generous Grandparents | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
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Martin...I could'nt agree more. The best learning experience of my life was watching my first company die. One of the most painful experiences too. Now, I cherish those memories for the lessons they taught me. | ||
| 1989 328 GTS (Vilamoura2002)
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My life started as a tragedy........born in an island.........lost very young parents(I was 18) .......one brother (age 9) ..... two sisters (age 5 and 2).....bring them all up.....moving away from that island......now everything belongs to the past | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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aHa, divorced!!! aHa successfull aHa,..no I will not say that! | ||
| Nika (Racernika)
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94 - left husband 2 weeks after my father passed away ($1000 in the bank) .....96 took $25,000 divorce settlement (he got the house) and invested well - VERY well. (Thank you fuel cell co. and IPO's) bought and paid for my own house, made sure Mom was okay, toured Europe....caused trouble... etc bought 308 GTS Living well and being happy is the best revenge And not a day goes by that I don't appreciate my car and my luck. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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In truth, it all started with Napoleon Hill and "Think and grow Rich". This I consider a bible. Many great people along the way and determination has made all possible. I also learned a lot form bankrupting my frist company and to be totally broke. A humbling experience that I wish on everybody before they build great fortunes. Where are we going from here? To even better things, more smiles (thanks Nika..), and full enjoyment of life as we live it! | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Where did I get started: - in 1968 when my father was on top of my mom- What made me want a Ferrari? - the devil, she is a good friend - What made is possible? - money Where are you now? - in my office How did you get there? - in a 348 Spider (top down BTW, 80°F) What would I have changed along the way? - I would not have forgotten my cellphoen and had to return home to get it... Hope that answered your questions... | ||
| Todd (Tkrefeld)
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Changing paces a little. I am interested in where some of you got started. What made you want a Ferrari, and what made it possible. Where are you now, and how did you get there?? And what would you have changed along the way?? |