!! Consumer Alert: Auto Gallery of Seattle | FerrariChat

!! Consumer Alert: Auto Gallery of Seattle

Discussion in 'Northwest' started by SpeedDemon, Jun 6, 2006.

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  1. SpeedDemon

    SpeedDemon Karting

    Sep 27, 2005
    54
    Redmond
    Full Name:
    Joel Sloss
    #1 SpeedDemon, Jun 6, 2006
    Fellow owners ... I don't usually post this kind of thing because it always stirs up a hornet's nest (people will defend, people will rebut), but I want to save anyone else in the auto community from ending up down this same path. This is just an accounting of the facts -- you can draw your own conclusions.

    Back in January / February, I consigned my 1998 355F1 Berlinetta with Tyson Spring at Auto Gallery Seattle. He assured me it would sell quickly (low miles, great condition, supreme Capristo exhaust -- and an aggressive price). 4 months later it still had not sold (yes, these things happen). I would call periodically for an update, and he would tell me about this person or that person that was interested.

    Finally, he had someone on the hook who would lease it, but there were all kinds of financing issues and that fell through.

    Shannon over at Park Place directed one of his customers to AGS, since he knew my car was there (I bought it from Shannon). Tyson related the buyer's interest, and seemed confident the deal would close.

    However, time kept passing. I called Tyson to find out what was going on, and I always got the same line, "the guy is really interested, we just have to get a couple things fixed on the car and we're done". This went on for many weeks. I would call for status, he would tell me it's in-progress.

    After a time, it became harder and harder to get a hold of him. He had told me the car went up to Jeffrey at Cavalino, so I called him. Sure enough, the car was there. I asked him if he knew anything about the buyer, or if Tyson had mentioned closing the sale (since he stopped returning my calls). Jeffrey then informs me that the car had actually be sold over a month ago, the buyer had taken delivery, and these were the "We Owe Bill" items negotiated between the buyer and AGS. (needless to say, AGS did not pay for the work as dictated in the sale)

    Jeffrey helped me contact the owner, and I learned that the car was indeed sold on 4/15, it was now 6/1, and I still hadn't been paid from the consignment. I called Tyson again, and again, and again. Each time (provided I could reach him), he told me "oh, it's in process -- i'm taking care of the wire transfer right now". Still nothing.

    AGS is now closed, and Tyson is nowhere to be found -- it would appear that he took the money and ran. It's turning into a huge mess involving credit unions, the Attorney General's Office, Seattle PD, lawyers, insurance companies, and what not. As you can no doubt guess, I'm not a happy camper (I got no payment, and I got no car). And, my guess is that I'm not the only one this has happened to recently (based on some other things I overheard while at AGS a couple weeks ago) ... if you've had a similar experience, please contact me.

    So, if you have a car sitting at AGS right now, go get it quick. If you come across AGS or Tyson, run the other way -- he is not to be trusted. He lied on the phone, in e-mail, and even right to my face when I sat in his office, ostensibly watching him talk to his bank to transfer the money.

    Take from this what you will -- perhaps you already knew of shady dealings with AGS and this comes as no great surprise. I admit I was really stupid to trust what appeared to be a legitimate business with a strong foundation and a known individual at the helm. I was mistaken.
     
  2. RumorDude

    RumorDude Formula Junior

    Dec 16, 2003
    613
    Woodinville, WA
    #2 RumorDude, Jun 6, 2006
    dude, that sucks.

    can you file a stolen vehicle report or something?
    will your insurance help cover things?
    does the number you have for tyson end in 0160?
     
  3. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
    5,966
    Milton, Wash.
    Full Name:
    Jeff B.
    #3 Miltonian, Jun 6, 2006
    What a dreadful story. I hope it works out for you.

    Who was holding the title?
     
  4. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 29, 2001
    17,940
    USA
    #4 f355spider, Jun 6, 2006
    Unbelievable...well, with the reputation that location previously had...maybe the place is jinxed! ;)

    Sorry man, this plain sucks.

    Dave
     
  5. SpeedDemon

    SpeedDemon Karting

    Sep 27, 2005
    54
    Redmond
    Full Name:
    Joel Sloss
    #5 SpeedDemon, Jun 6, 2006
    Yeah, I'm pretty much getting raped with a rusty crowbar on this one. Police can't do anything because it is a civil matter (calling it in stolen would come back on me, not anyone else), so I will have to go through a lengthy court process to get the money (which of course I'll never see since Tyson skipped town, and would likely just file for bankruptcy protection), or to get a court order for the return of the car itself (and then I'll be up against the buyer's bank and their lawyers).

    Funny thing is that I actually hold the title. Thus, I have to keep the insurance on it (they can't do anything, either). I'm not sure how a bank can issue a loan against a vehicle that they do not own (the title for), and proceed to register said car with the state / DMV.

    While you'd think that one or several crimes have been committed here, the justice system doesn't really make it easy on the victim. I am not, however, releasing the title. That's the only thing I have going for me at the moment.

    So, if you see my red/black 355 F1 and hear its wicked exhaust note, please pause, honor the car, and give a toast to its legal and rightful owner.

    --Joel

    No, I don't have that number for Tyson. I only have AGS and his cell phone.
     
  6. RumorDude

    RumorDude Formula Junior

    Dec 16, 2003
    613
    Woodinville, WA
    #6 RumorDude, Jun 6, 2006
    Well, I sure don't claim to be a lawyer, but it seems odd to me that if you hold the title, but the car is "in an unknown location", that sounds like something i would file a stolen car report on. I also don't know the law wrt/abandoned vehicles, but I would think you should make sure it is known the car isn't being abandoned. Hell, maybe it was stolen from the dealership. Who knows? Regardless, were I you, I'd get some lawyers on the phone (i'm sure you have already) and understand whatever options you may have. Your insurance company might be able to get their nose in there too.

    Are you sure Tyson has skipped town? If he is in the US somewhere, I might be able to help you with that.

    But like you said, obviously even if you know where he is, but he can't pay up, then you can't collect. Didn't the dealship have some sort of insurance? I'd imagine that there has got to be precedent for this type of thing.

    If all else fails, you can always see if people understand things like 'broken kneecap', 'uzi', and 'facial reconstruction by pitchfork'.
     
  7. Grey_Gull

    Grey_Gull Formula Junior

    Jul 24, 2004
    564
    #7 Grey_Gull, Jun 6, 2006
  8. exotics4fun

    exotics4fun Karting

    May 13, 2005
    84
    #8 exotics4fun, Jun 7, 2006
    That's a wild story. I saw your car a few months back, but didn't have a good feeling about the place. Sad to hear your story and I'm glad I passed, hopefully your lawyer is on this one. If you signed one of these WA state forms when you consigned your car they may not need the title...

    http://www.dol.wa.gov/forms/420050.pdf
     
  9. ToddB

    ToddB Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    2,241
    Vancouver B.C./OC
    Full Name:
    Todd
    #9 ToddB, Jun 7, 2006
    Sorry to hear Joel, This is a very small thing, but I had emailed AGoS twice before about a grey 348, never heard back from them, called them, no call back, needless to say, I did not talk highly of them after this.
     
  10. rynoshark

    rynoshark Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 6, 2004
    1,021
    Pacific Northwest
    Full Name:
    Ryan
    #10 rynoshark, Jun 7, 2006
    Joel, that really *SUCKS*. Why does this keep happening w/ high end car dealers in Seattle...remember that place up on Lake City Way 5 years back that sold cars multiple times w/o delivering.

    The legal loopholes is a bunch of BS. Your car should be considered stolen.
     
  11. albertl

    albertl Formula Junior

    Oct 23, 2002
    440
    Washington
    Full Name:
    Albert
    #11 albertl, Jun 7, 2006
    Damn! Really sorry to hear of this. Hope you can get it resolved! They do not need your title to sell the car - you need to check the VIN with tthe DMV to see if there is a registered owner.
     
  12. kiesan

    kiesan Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 21, 2003
    1,455
    Seattle
    Full Name:
    Kie Robertson
    #12 kiesan, Jun 7, 2006
    Yeah these guys are right, all one has to do is sign the release of interest and a dealer can legally sell the car. I do it fairly often here at my bike store when I buy a bike from someone who has misplaced the title after I verify they do indeed own the bike.

    A quick way for you to check and see who is the registered owner is by going to the WA DOL website and go through the initial "Seller's Report of Sale" process. Click here:

    https://fortress.wa.gov/dol/rosprod/VehInfo.asp?P=0

    Enter in the plate number and either the last 4 digits of the VIN or your last name. If the car is still in your name it will come up, or, if it isn't, it will say no match found.

    Man that sucks. I had a similar thing happen to friend of mine who consigned a piece of art (Morris Graves was the artist) with some **** named Kurt Lidtke who I guess is still doing business here. The guy sold my friend's piece of art for $20k and never gave my friend a dime. Mr. Lidtke's tale of woe can be read here:

    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/visualart/194028_lidtke07.html
     
  13. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
    14,648
    Land of Slugs & Moss
    Full Name:
    Han Solo
    #13 Spasso, Jun 7, 2006
    I see the "Cassini Factor" is alive and well.
    I am sorry for the hassles you are going through Joel.
    I think media exposure goes a long way in alerting others and is a great resource in pooling information among others you normally wouldn't know to contact.
     
  14. BritBlaster

    BritBlaster F1 Rookie

    Jul 25, 2005
    2,865
    Bellevue, WA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    #14 BritBlaster, Jun 8, 2006
    Joel .. so sorry to hear your tale of misfortune.

    Hopefully a good lawyer will be able to help you get back is rightfully yours...
     
  15. widdlewade

    widdlewade Formula Junior

    Sep 24, 2004
    317
    Bay Area/NYC
    #15 widdlewade, Jun 8, 2006
    Joel you have a pm.
     
  16. GaryReed

    GaryReed F1 Rookie

    Feb 9, 2002
    3,109
    Seattle
    Full Name:
    Gary
    #16 GaryReed, Jun 8, 2006
    Joel,

    I'm really sorry to hear about what happened and I hope that you get paid in full or your Ferrari is returned to you soon.
     
  17. tritone

    tritone F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 8, 2003
    6,882
    On the Rock
    Full Name:
    James
    #17 tritone, Jun 8, 2006
    I'm with you there....I had a car there for 2 years!!! with no sale. Fortunately, they never had the title or any paper, and I lived a block away and went by EVERY day!
    More than once I was sure I heard my car drive away late at night; I would get dressed and run down there @ 2 in the morning to make sure it was still in the window!

    Guess I was lucky indeed........

    james
     
  18. SpeedDemon

    SpeedDemon Karting

    Sep 27, 2005
    54
    Redmond
    Full Name:
    Joel Sloss
    #18 SpeedDemon, Jun 8, 2006
    Thanks for your support, everyone. Good group of people y'all are. In fact, I've learned some interesting things through the people here:

    1) I'm not the first / only victim of AGS
    2) The DMV pointer is a good one -- I did not sign a copy of that form linked above, and indeed I can file my own "lost title" claim with the DMV that will nullify the sale (and perhaps allow the police to retrieve my car)
    3) Media -- now that I know of others similarly affected, perhaps coverage will prevent any such future outbreaks of AGS in the community

    I do know who the buyer is, so at least I know where the car is located (in this area, fortunately).

    Todd -- that grey 348 was still there as of a couple weeks ago.

    So, on the one hand, I have a lot more information now than I did a few days ago, thanks to you guys. I've filed more paperwork with the state, and I have pointers on more things to do. On the other hand, more roadblocks have been thrown up, so I'm actually further away from getting this issue settled.

    I'll keep everybody posted.

    --Joel

    One interesting point that has come up is that if he failed to pay me for my car, then he probably also failed to pay the state the sales tax he collected. Perhaps that will pique the Attorney General's interest enough to spur an investigation for tax fraud.
     
  19. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
    14,648
    Land of Slugs & Moss
    Full Name:
    Han Solo
    #19 Spasso, Jun 9, 2006
    If possible, contact the current "possessor" of your car and explain the current situation. In the interest of protecting himself from this fraudulent transaction, legally and financially, he may be able to assist you in putting things right. I am sure the current "owner" would not want the car confiscated by law enforcement as evidence leaving him as well as yourself without the car or money.
    The only drawback to that is if the current owner is was in on the scam to begin with. Still, if the car can be located and confiscated it's a moot point.
     
  20. SpeedDemon

    SpeedDemon Karting

    Sep 27, 2005
    54
    Redmond
    Full Name:
    Joel Sloss
    #20 SpeedDemon, Jun 9, 2006
    I actually have spoken with the buyer, and he has been reasonably helpful in providing details of the transaction, information on AGS, etc.

    I can see his viewpoint in that he doesn't want to lose the car (and he'll fight it as much as he can), but I don't intend to be the one left holding the bag.

    It's just so much of a gray area that nobody quite seems to know how to handle it. I'm sure it'll get worse before it gets better, though.
     
  21. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
    14,648
    Land of Slugs & Moss
    Full Name:
    Han Solo
    #21 Spasso, Jun 9, 2006
    Good Grief!
    I can't help feeling that with the connections there are available to numerous members of this club that this guy can't be nailed.

    Wish I was one of them.............
     
  22. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
    2,598
    Pacific NW
    Full Name:
    Anthony C.
    #22 Tifoso1, Jun 9, 2006
    Joel,

    Not to sound unsympathetic to the buyer, but if you still hold the title to the car, then technically speaking, isn't he in possession of a stolen car?! If anything at all, it is his and his bank's fault for not checking, follow up on this. The bank should be the one holding the bag, not him or you.

    Perhaps I have it all wrong here as I am nowhere close to being a lawyer, but this just seem like the case to me. I do hope that you either get your money or get the car back soon.
     
  23. thomasg03

    thomasg03 Rookie

    Nov 23, 2005
    15
    Kirkland, WA
    #23 thomasg03, Jun 11, 2006
    Hey Joel,

    Sorry to hear about this! I purchased a 1995 F355 from Tyson in November and had some problems after the sale. Luckily for me nothing like what you are experiencing. Here is my quick facts.

    The title wasn't legally transferred until February. Dealers only have 45 days to do this so I was wondering what the problem was. (the penalty is $750 for a dealer) He blamed it on my bank and my bank says he just didn't do it. It did finally get completed in February but maybe he was delaying payment to the owner?

    He had a handful of things on my "We Owe" list and when I would call him about it he would tell me things were on order and he would handle it. I had to contact him via phone/e-mail no less than 30 times since November. It was always the same story from him when I could get a hold of him. Needless to say nothing was completed or delivered. He seemed like a nice normal guy?

    I turned him into the Washington State Dealer Dept. and they opened a case. I haven't heard back from them but this was just last week. I was surprissed they were so willing to open a case but maybe there are a few others out there. The gal's name was Amanda but I would have to find the number.

    My lose is just a "We Owe" list but I feel for you my friend.
    Best,
    Tom
     
  24. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie

    Mar 17, 2006
    4,685
    Seattle, WA
    Full Name:
    Brian White
    #24 bjwhite, Jun 12, 2006
  25. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie

    Mar 17, 2006
    4,685
    Seattle, WA
    Full Name:
    Brian White
    #25 bjwhite, Jun 16, 2006
    So any updates to this?
     
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