I recently put 1/2" (15mm) on the front of my 575, and the 1" (25mm) spacers on the back wheels. These Hill Engineering spacers were from RICAMBI, and they went on like a dream. I so liked them that I am getting spacer sets for the backs of both my 456 cars, and the 1/2" (15mm) sets for the front of one of the 456 cars. The subject of Titanium wheel bolts came up, and I thought I'd do some math on the weights involved. Since I have clean 1/2" spacers in front of me, with the 1/2" longer steel wheel bolts, also from Hill Engineering, I'll dig out the postal scale, and find the pounds, ounces and fractions. The spacers themselves weigh 2 pounds, 2 ounces per pair, so that is 17 oz per 1/2" spacer. Rugged aluminum for sure, and nicely finished. The surprise for me was the longer by 1/2" bolts at 5.25 oz's each. That doesn't sound like much, but that's 26.3 oz's per wheel, and almost 2 pounds per wheel ! That's more than the spacer alone. If the titanium bolts are about 50% of the weight of the steel bolts, that would be maybe 13 oz's per wheel. If I went with the titanium bolts, my un-sprung weight would have increased by only maybe 4 oz per wheel. Would titanium be worth the cost ?
On the rears if you have Type 2 spacers, you can use OEM titanium bolts for the wheels. I even had a set of titanium bolts made for the spacers, but do not remember where I got them. I think Novitec makes longer titanium bolts for Type 1 spacers, but no idea how much they cost. So I run OEM titanium bolts, no spacers in front, and 25 mm Type 2s in the rear. Note the titanium bolts lower unsprung weight, but are pretty close to the center of the wheel (54 mms) so not much rotational inertia is saved. Still they look pretty and do weigh less... Worth the cost? Not for $2K to me, but the used set I bought was only $750 and the small bolts $125, so I could afford that.
John- Yup, that is why the factory put them on several cars. Let us know when you can actually add something to the thread.
He has added something to the thread: His opinion. As the OP posted: That would appear to indicate that he wanted peoples opinions. Respected as you are on Fchat, it is not for you to dictate to others as to whether they are allowed to voice their opinions on a subject or not!
Focus on bolts and spacers ... after all I am certain many of your neighbors and/or friends look at our Ferrari's and think the same thing ... brains/bucks. Curious the total weight of stock wheels/bolts vs .... Spacers and titanium bolts, and maybe lighter aftermarket wheels.
Makes more sense than carbon fiber interior or titanium fuel cap which I want to buy. At least there is benefit to having lighter wheels as opposed to a lighter air filter housing or fuel cap. Lastly it matches the wheel finish better than the shiny chrome bolts in my opinion.
Phil- Coming to the rescue, eh? It is possible to give an opinion without sounding like a jerk. When I need your advice, I will ask for it. So what did you add to this thread?
Slightly off topic perhaps, but I would like to know the reason behind increasing the track in the rear more than that in the front: 1/2" in the front vs 1" in the rear. Is it looks that you are after or something else? Tks, A.
What did I add to this thread? - The fact that that John Glen voiced his opinion on the subject, as the OP asked - I would have thought that was obvious from what I had written! He could have worded his post differently, but he made his opinion obvious: Some people pay over the odds for things because they get convinced that they must have it by the marketing hype! (like paying extra to have the tyres filled with nitrogen gas for example!) The car will not suddenly become a danger on the road if you don't use titanium wheel bolts. The extra weight involved is actually going to make very little difference to the car. As for: No you wont! What you seem to be forgetting is that Fchat is a public forum in which people are free to post their thoughts and opinions so long as they fall within the rules, parameters and remit of the owner and the appointed moderators. John Glen's post was not overtly offensive and there was no need for your response, basically telling him to p:censored:ss off from posting. When you start tazandjan.com then you can tell people to p:censored:ss off from posting to your hearts content!
Not many things on a car more important to safety that good, solid wheel bolts. I was at a track day recently and a guy in a BMW noticed that several of the heads on his bolts were missing. Further investigation revealed that they had cracked due to over-torquing and then rusted (they were steel). Under pressure, the bolts severed and fell off. Whatever you do, make sure that your bolts are in good condition. Would I pay the price for titanium bolts? I have not. My measure of an aftermarket upgrade is, "Will it make my car faster, safer, more reliable or more comfortable?" Then I weigh the cost vs. the benefit. Titanium bolts are indeed superior. But IMO, do not add enough to performance or safety to warrant the extremely high cost. Unless you can find a used set in good condition, I would pass.
Are they worth the cost? subjective....however they are lighter, cheaper than the OEM chrome steel bolts (if you need to replace them)and do look cool.
Phil- Well, I guess we know what I think of your opinions. When folks are civil, they get treated well, when not....
Over the holidays, I took delivery of a set of twenty (20) Titanium bolts for the wheels of my 575. I will soon post pictures of installation and assorted pertinent facts, and some interpretation. Scott
It's your money at the end of the day. If you want them, buy them. However, unless you are a pro with a team behined you with a trailer full of telemetry computers and accoistatied sensors installed in your Ferrari, I going to venture a guess that you will not feel any differance in the car.
Two identical cars side by side, one with steel wheel bolts, one with Titanium. I would wager on the road even a professional race driver could not tell which one was which. On a track during qualifying then yes a few tenths may be gained as a result, but that could also be down to slightly different air pressure in the tyres between each car in reality. As has been said though, it's your money, if it makes you happy then alls good, we only get one lap of life
My supposition is that for me, it really won't matter if there is a MEASURABLE Benefit to the Titanium bolts, I'm just having fun with the project ! With sets of Titanium bolts going for north of $1,000, and a slight "up charge" for the 1/2" longer bolts for the offset in the front, the Ti concept represents a serious amount of money for something with only a slight chance of having a measurable result. What I am aiming for is: 1) Canceling out the weight increase of the HILL Engineering off set spacers, which DO make a measurable difference. 2) Seeing just how economical I can be with the whole project, which was to fit the spacers and bolts for UNDER $1,000 TOTAL, with NO weight gain. (Having a Ferrari modification project that comes in UNDER $1,000 is a success in my book. Take a peek here for a visual on the brake situation on my 575) http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/456-550-575-sponsored-bradan/507875-parking-brake-problems-big-brembos-575m.html Cheers, Scott
Spoiler Alert!.... They look awesome! On some cars, like a 360, the chrome stock wheel lugs are the only chrome on the entire car which makes them out of place IMHO. Image Unavailable, Please Login
In general aviation $1000 was termed an $AU, e.g. "how many AU's did that mod cost". Would this be a FU in the Ferrari car world?
IMO no. I don't think any of the added or alleviated weights you have mentioned are significant enough to be felt if you consider that tire and rim combos can exceed these amounts. Do it because you enjoy the project, as you stated, but not because of any measurable performance increase due to adding weight and then taking some of it away again. Just my opinion.
If you are running a Formula car professionally or going after a national championship then YES : definitely get titanium lug nuts ! In a street car they are the equivalent of a carbon fiber cup holder. PS I love my carbon fiber cup holders !
