458 spongy brake pedal

When I first starting driving my car, the carbon ceramics took a bit of getting used to for me, as it is my first car with them. Dealer, and another owner said it helps quite a bit to warm them up first. I found, like you, that they didn't grab well when cold. However, if I drive a minute or so with some light pressure on the brakes, the brake pedal feel improves quite a bit. Similarly improves after some normal driving around town, which must heat it up too, though takes a bit longer that way.

If you've tracked the car or have a lot of miles on it, might need bleeding or change of the fluid. Otherwise, might try above first.

 

Pedal is def. firm, but they tend to work much better when warm. My pedal is never spongy but they don't work so great when cold.

 

Did a few laps at the tracks last Saturday (first time on track with the 458) and experienced the same. I'll take her for a change of fluid tomorrow to the dealer and will probably replace the brake lines as well. Did the same in my Porsche track car and worked pretty well. BTW, brakes worked fine all session but pedal wasn't as firm as I like.

 

There was a threat some time ago about 458 ceramic brakes problem and one user suggested to do about 10x hard breaking from 100 to 60 or something, and then the ceramic breaks would be fixed because the brakes were also new and needed that hard breaking to "fix" the break fluid/pads or something.

 

I've noticed a big difference between my F430 with CCB's and the 458's CCB.

The F430 would "grab" much more at low speeds. It was at time a bit annoying as it seemed to come out of nowhere at times. I worried that the guy behind would not see it or react quickly enough. And, it was a bit unpleasant inside when it happened.

My understanding is that the latest gen 3 CCB on the 458, CA, etc has removed this problem.

The first time I used the brakes 458 for anything other than normal stopping, I thought it was not going to stop! But, after a little break in period, it works great now. I have no issues with it. It's an amazing stopping car that spoils me in all others.

I would not say my pedal is "spongy". There is some travel at the top of the pedal and it is definitely not "rock hard". I think the software is set up to help control braking to make it more smoother.

If the pedal is spongy, I would have the dealer inspect it. Brake issues should to be treated lightly -- your dealer will know that for sure. If there's something wrong with the brakes, they'll look at it immediately rather than having some kind of incident.

 

are you sure you aren't driving an F40?

 

My brakes were spongy on the track once they were hot. Not a good feeling at all. I took it to the dealer who replaced the fluid and said there was a bit of air in the system. Basically, bleeding the system makes all the difference. In my track car I use racing brake fluid to avoid boiling at really high temperatures.

 

I have had my 458 for nearly a year now and on a couple of occasions I have been surprised when stopping hard from high speed that I was not getting the response I expected! The brakes seemed to lack bite especially in comparison on my previous 997 turbo with ceramics. The car is currently in for its annual service and I have asked them to check this out. I wondered if there was air in the fluid or maybe the discs needed heating but until I understand what the issue is I have to say that I have been leaving my self more braking distance. I will update this post at the weekend when the car is back.

 

Several Problems, all of them easy, albeit not cheap to resolve.

Problem 1: Getting deep on the brakes suddenly (hard braking), with cold brakes, the pedal gets hard and the car doesn't slow at it should.

Cause 1: Blame Ferrari. Brembo is the manufacturer of the CCB rotors for all Ferrari. Brembo has years of development with Pagid, and Pagid has developed brake pad compounds for these special CCB rotors. Suddenly, Ferrari gave Textar the manufacturing of brake pads for the 458, these pads are not on the same level of performance as Pagid RS-4-2-1 which is the compound labelled as S600 being used in the previous cars.

Solution 1: Replace the Textar pads with the 430 Scuderia/16M pads, 458 uses the same shape pads as the Scuderia/16M. The Scuderia/16M pads are made by Brembo for Ferrari, they are Pagid compound, a sport compound very versatile for street use, and very light track use. Bedding in the Textar pads will reduce this problem but will not eliminate it.

Problem 2: Spongy brake pedal on a car that has never been at the track

Cause 2: air in the system

Solution 2: Bleed the brake system, use a better quality fluid.

Problem 3: spongy brake pedal during a racetrack or track day event

Cause 3: lack of cooling

Solution 3: several things needed here:

3A: replace the brake fluid with a high quality brake fluid. I just switched to EndLess 650, after more than 8 years running Castrol SRF. Both of these fluids are at the top, but I was promised EndLess was better than SRF and it is indeed. I just tested this brake fluid at Sebring on the 2 hottest days I have run there, and brakes performance was flawless.

3B: the 458 Italia comes with zero cooling. Get the cooling kit from the 458 Challenge, it fits the Italia.

3C: Track brake pads (don't use your street brake pads on the track, don't use your track pads on the streets). The 458 Challenge brake pads are a straight fit for the Italia.

I have tested 9 different brake pad brands/compounds in my Scuderia, with only 2 of them being very good. I'm about to test 2 more compounds from another brand in the next 3 months, and these new brake pads are considered superior by many Pro Racing Team running them, compared to my 2 favorites so far, so I have high expectations to get to the end of a 3+ years process. From the 2 compounds I like so far, a friend had braking problems in his 458 Italia at Sebring (most brake consuming racetrack in U.S.), we swapped the brake pads in about 1 hour, we bedded the brake pads in the inner road for 7 minutes, but from the very start, the brake feeling was great (progressive and lots of grab). When he came back from a track session, he could not believe how great the brakes were, better than ever, very progressive, no fading. I knew he was going to be thrilled because I was thrilled a year before when I first tested them.

By chances on this same weekend where my friend's 458 had brake problems (hard pedal with low stopping power), I was testing 2 new compounds, using my F430 Challenge pads (same pads as the 458 Challenge) as a control, and one brand I liked that went to the 458. The 2 new compounds from a company well known in club racing in U.S. did not work well, one of them wore out in less than 80 minutes at the track.

The CCB rotors are long lasting, I just took them out after 23 track days, as my last 2 track days were done on steel rotors. Rear rotors are almost at the same weight as new, front rotors are at 40% life left in one, 20% life left in the other, using the two weight figures printed on the bells, and pro-rating based on current weight.

458 CCB rotors are the same units as used in the Scuderia/16M/F430Challenge/458Challenge except the unique center bell.

 

when I test drove the italia I had a strong feeling that the brakes were not as responsive as any performance car ! It needed a lot of pressure and travel distance to achieve a sudden stop, it's just not confidence inspiring at all! I am not sure it is just that particular car or it is a widespread problem?

After reading F430GT's comment, I now know that it is a cost cutting measure by f! how can they do that on a performance car costing that much ?

but how about other owners? do they experience the same thing?

 

Here is an older thread about brake problems. I posted my problem there. It was never resolved on my car, but I gave up.

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=317618

 

So will these breaks work on a Cali. I am on my 2nd compound from Ferrari and they are still driving me crazy.

Where can I order them, or do I just tell the dealer to order them put them on?

 

My advice would be to simply have your dealer bleed the brakes. Even a tiny bit of air can make the pedal feel a little soft. A lot of European cars have specific bleed procedures now to bleed the ABS solenoid properly. So i'd have the dealer bleed it.

 

I ran into the same issue driving a friend's 458. Normal braking was fine, but once I got it up to a decent speed and then tried to slow it was really spongy, took a good 5 seconds or so for the brakes to start to catch. Really the only fault I could find with the car.

 

Hi F430GT. Thank you thank you for info! Wow I glad someone know what to do, because I am mad spend 500k USD on this Italia and have to have problems....

Can you say which brake pad combo for 458 your friend had best result with? Thank you.

 

Go the car back after the service and the brakes are much better, a lot more feel and responsive so my confidence is restored. Seems the issue is air in the line and the need for a very specific bleeding process to make sure everything works fine.

 

Just to clarify, was your brake pedal feeling soft and spongy, or very hard? In my car, it was never spongy - just really hard to push, and only sporadically. A spongy pedal typically means the brakes do need bleeding. Thanks.

 

Just found this thread and wonder if any further discussion or solution to this brake issue.

 

Whats the specific question you have? Many of the answers here are truly excellent. Great reading for anyone. IMHO brake fluid flush should be part of everyone's annual maintenance if you are on the street and more often if you are on the track.

 

"F430GT" gave excellent analysis of what could have caused the issues with recommendation.

I am just curious if these remedies really work or if someone still have issues i.e. firm pedal but didn't get brake which seems not happened in steel rotors.

 

Those remedies really work.

 

I feel I have to apply more pressure on these brakes than I have had to in others cars. It is not an issue in normal or casual driving where the car stops easily. During exceptionally hard braking (emergency braking etc.) the brakes do not inspire the highest confidence and you feel like you won't stop, but they do stop, as I have not hit any thing yet or even come close. Most of my drives a very spirited most of the time.