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Discussion in 'Other Italian' started by ferrari#7, Jul 25, 2016.
Yes trying to find out what everyone thinks of the 4c. I looked at one today. Any info. Thanks
Plenty of info on them here
Alfa Romeo 4C Forums
In a nut shell
Hard to get in and out of
Cheap to maintain
Paddle shift similar to F430
Not a DD
Everything the Mayor said and my brief review from last month.
Only have a couple hundred miles at this point, mostly 2 lane winding country roads that have been patched instead of re paved.
- the car is an event ever time u get in it
- very purposeful design
- she does not seem overly small, feels bigger than she actually is
- sight lines to me are pretty much a non issue, side view mirrors are good, rear view is fine unless backing up
- do not understand all of the negative manual steering comments. Unless u are attempting to turn the wheel at a dead stop which I was alway told that is something that u shouldn't do then then the steering is very easy to manage.
- the car is rock solid, no fenders or hood or suspension flapping around over bumps, very well damped. You will feel it but it's all one piece, impressed here.
- plenty of power and the torque is always available and I have yet to get on it
- fo me it's the perfect size, I'm 5'10" about 162, sometimes right butt cheek can get a little sore so I shift around
- have not noticed any drone, I have the race exhaust
She makes all the right sounds from the time u open the door and the fuel system starts to pressurize to the time u turn the key. DCT is pretty dam good IMO, must say I'm impressed, have not driven it in full auto mode yet as it's too much fun shifting. Love the downshift blip of the throttle. Finally listened to the stero utilizing my iPod, it's not great by any means but it is better than I initially thought. Can always have it upgraded but I'm content with it for now.
Complaints about the cheap interior are way off base, especially if u do the full leather pkg on the dash and doors. People also complain about the AC/Heat Fan controls, I mean really are we going to ***** about fan controls? You turn the knobs to what you specifically want to accomplish, so easy and no complication with icons and haptic feedback etc. Inside storage is pretty good for your insurance card and registration, but it's pretty tough to find a place for your non installed front plate.
Have received more comments and honks and people yelling "What kind of car is that" in the short time that I have owned her it's actually pretty funny. Coupe or Spyder...can go either way, I prefer the coupe because I just feel the overall lines are better but I do miss out on the open air motoring, but for me this car provides so much stimuli I can live without the removable top.
As the Mayor said, you won't see these built again. I think Alfa really took a flyer on this car and it's probably a once in a lifetime build for them with something so radical and purposeful. They had to know that there are just not enough diehards to actually make a sensible business case and yet they had the guts to build it. Bravo Alfa...
IMHO it's the modern Dino that Ferrari can't build.
Looks best from the front.
I am placing an order for a 2017 coupe this coming Saturday�� I took a test drive last weekend and could not believe how much fun it is. Bravo Alfa.
I love the death out of mine. It's like having a shifter go kart for the street. Minus the sore ribs and sweating...lol
It's a blast to drive on the track, I've had mine out at Willow and AutoClub Speedway. It's quite amazing how it hangs with everything except in the straights. There are a few of us with ECU upgrades on our 4C's. It bumps the hp from 237 to 263 whp. It makes a world of difference in the car.
I do daily drive mine. But not in the capacity of to and from work. I walk everyday to and from the office, so it's just for quick errands or to get my fix. It is truly addicting to drive.
Yes, it can be uncomfortable at times on long stints. The storage is pretty meager. Though you can do some light shopping as long as you think about your arrangement of items.
The steering is amazing. There are a few that don't like the aggressiveness of it and they have swapped out to aftermarket steering blocks to make it more tame. I've never had any problems and it's one of my favorite aspects of the car. It makes you feel absolutely connected to the road.
It's a no non sense track car with no un needed equipment or accessories. The instrument cluster is really nice and gives you a few different configurations in race mode.
I drive my car quite hard most of the time. It's lowest average mpg has been 24 mpg after a track day. But beware, it only has a 10 gallon tank. Once you get into the 1/4 tank range, the car will not allow you to drive in race mode. Or that was my experience on the track.
I have to say, it's put my 360 out of commission. lol It really is dang quick and handles great. The 360 will still eat it up on the top end above 100.
There's a couple other pics on this link:
You won't be disappointed except that it will get more attention than your Ferrari.
"There are a few of us with ECU upgrades on our 4C's. It bumps the hp from 237 to 263 whp. It makes a world of difference."
What brands of ECU did you look at and ultimately decide upon?? I have read positive reviews of Euro Compulsion. Any experience/advice appreciated!!!
i've spotted one locally the beautifuly blond who drives it seems to do so often may be a daily driver she has it in white i need to visit the dealer to look at fiats and see if they will let me take one for a spin hehe
EC has continually lied about the results they achieved. They claim 62 hp over the Pogea ECU.
Their stage 2 which was supposed to be 62hp more got blown away by the Stage 1 Pogea. The stage 2 EC is on par with Pogea's. But even with all the mods, it's not as fast as the Pogea.
I and a few others called them out about the bs claims, the moderator shut the thread down do to people starting to thrash them and they had nothing but excuses why they lost. At one point they were claiming a 4 car length advantage. 4 cars lengths on 60hp? Yeah, okay. I guess you can't have everyone upset with your Sponsored vendor. lol
This furthermore solidifying their bs by backing that claim. Anyone who has every tuned a car knows getting 60 more hp out of something already at it's max is impossible. Yet alone claiming 60hp difference will lead to a 4 car length lead.
I've heard they are good to deal with from a customer service point, however, they are now having delays on delivering their parts which is why some of the forum members complained about Pogea, the only thing was, Madness was Pogea's official US ambassador. They ended up losing the Pogea line due to over marking up their products and copying the tune from the clone as well.
Either ECU will be a huge improvement and you'll be happy with both. However, if you live in a warm climate, EC claims their ECU doesn't offer full power over a 100 degrees. Which is a crap, due to most of us in the country being exposed to triple digit numbers all day. Pogea tunes are tested in Abu Dubai and many other extremely hot places and doesn't have this issue.
There is not one EC ECU car across the country that is quicker than a Pogea tune. If you want a Pogea ECU, please let me know. I can talk to Eduard Pogea directly and get ahold of one. And not at the 2900 madness was selling them for either.
Just my 2 cents on the tunes.
Thank you very much for the insight.
There are launch editions available, are they the one to get? Thanks
They have slightly more carbon and extra vents in the front bumper. Not to mention you get a number plaque in the launch editions. Other than that, you can option the car identically minus the front bumper vents.
Just placed an order for a Giallo 2017 coupe with Akrapovic exhaust. My wife is somewhat bemused as I just took delivery of a new F12 6 weeks ago. I admit it, I have a car problem!!! Can't wait.....
Congrats on both cars. It is an amazingly fun car to drive. She'll love driving it.
How does it compare to an Elise?
I don't have much Elise experience (a test drive of one really) but my off the cuff impression compared to the 4c:
4c is louder and more interesting to listen to. Tons of different intake/exhaust/turbo noises. Elise isn't the most interesting engine to listen to.
Elise seemed a bit more flimsy.
Steering effort in the elise is easier and it tram lines/hunts less than the 4c.
And many wish the 4c had a manual
(i'm okay with the DCT. I don't think I could shift quickly enough to keep the 4c in the power band.
I have one (#400). Maybe I am prejudiced but I would get an LE.
It has a lot of stuff unique to the rest of the line. For one thing, the aero pieces in the fenders of the front wheels. Also an alcantera interior, CF rear wing, race suspension and exhaust.
The dash plaque is also unique with an Italian flag.
If you see a 4c with scoops in front of the front wheels, you know its an LE.
I think this is the issue. I've thought the same thing. If I had to shift I think I'd be losing too much turbo power. I always wondered if that's one of the reason they never considered making a manual -- it engine configuration and big turbo just aren't a good match for a manual box.
One thing is true with this car that is "typically Alfa". Alfa has always (well, since the 50's) taken mass produced parts, juiced them up a bit, and put them into small sports cars. The 4c is no different. The engine is a modified Guilietta (with aluminum block). The gearbox is the same in the Dodge Dart but beefed up and faster. You either respect that or look at it as a joke. But that's the way sports cars were made in the 60's, and Alfa was no different.
I have all of the options in my car minus the # plaque, front bumper with slits and CF shifter piece. Otherwise it's optioned the same.
I am getting intrigued by this car. I have owned 6 alfas in my day and I like the idea of another. this looks fun indeed!!!
i love the pastel yellow/ giallo!!!
I sat in a white spyder last weekend. I was impressed. Comfortable once you are in. The roof was off. It is a targa soft roof that comes off. I think I prefer the LE.
i am going to look one over this weekend. I guess i have the new car itch. I may as well give it a whirl to either qualify it or disqualify it.
I am putting a $75k budget on my next car. it looks like a 2014-15 XKR Coupe, a 2015 F-type R, 2012-13 991 Carrera S, Vantage V-8 4.7, or the new Giulia QF. yes i know...one of these things is not like the other
I could not wait, so I just bought one this weekend. Exotic looks, carbon fiber monocoque, quick, sounds great and the price was compelling. Great car.
Congrats! Isn't this car a hoot to drive? It's like an 80's group C racer.
Agree completely!!!!!! I really cannot believe they could produce it for the MSRP. We saw them being assembled during our tour at Maserati in June. I realized then that I had to have one. What a fun, pure sports car.
i love it!!!!!
The truth is Alfa CAN'T produce this car at this price. They lose money on every one. It was a halo project to make a statement about the brand. I was told the CF tub alone costs 40 grand. Lamborghini and McLaren don't use a hand laid up process. Its a kind of transfer molding to lower the cost. But they have to put additional "good looking" CF panels on top of the exposed areas because the raw material looks bad.
As a halo car it worked, and those who are lucky enough to understand what a modern interpretation of an 70's exotic car would be will appreciate it.
Everyone else go screw yourselves in the back of your Lexus'.
Congrats. It's like having a luxury go kart for the streets.
I'd say it would be the most fun you could have in a car, but you have an F12 next to it.
I rarely drive my 360 or my truck anymore. Since acquiring the 4C, I am always looking for a reason to take it for a spin. Even with it's limited space, I still do errands with it.
Especially when you watch the video on how they are made. There is quite a team tending to each tub. And with all those precision cut pieces, the hours to assemble with autoclave time seems like a slow process and costly.
You might be able to find it on youtube. If not, it's called "How it's made: Dream Cars - Alfa Romeo 4C" You can find it on iTunes. It's a neat little video.
If it were this easy to make a hand laid up CF tub for 2 seat sports cars for $70 grand everyone would be doing it.
Do you see anyone else doing it?
Have either of you gents looked into the Eurocompulsion or Madness Autoworks ECU upgrade for the 4C?? It's quick already, but I have read a number of positive reviews on the Eurocompulsion ECU, which supposedly makes a noticeable difference.
Maybe it's not even a good idea, but thought I'd ask. Thing is, the F12 is frankly just too fast for the street and, while I adore it, the 4C is a car that feels faster than it is ( I think) and is really involving at sane speeds. As Jeremy Clarkson recently described it, " a Ferrari puppy"......
Thanks. I have it on my DVR. Once we went to Modena and watched them being made, I found this very video. I was hooked!!!
I have not but you can check out 4c-forum. There are people there who have and can give you tips.
As to the "too fast" issue---
I gave up my 458 spider because I could not drive it anywhere with any aggression. As soon as I hit 9 grand (which was awesome!) and I shifted I was already doing 60 MPH on city streets. Exotics today have gotten out of control. I always felt there was a cop behind me or something dangerous in front of me going as I tried to use it as intended.
Look at it this way: The speed limit in the 1960's was 70 MPH. Its still 70 MPH today.
In the 1970's an exotic would go 0-60 in 6 seconds and do 150 MPH if you dared to. Today a super car will do 0-60 in 3 seconds and 210 MPH without much drama.
They've outgrown their usefulness except for track purposes. Well, I drive on city street 99.99999999% of the time so I'd like a fun car to drive for the time I spend in it most.
We are in Monterey for the big car orgy aka car week.
**** tons of Porsches, ferraris etc.
Have yet to see ONE 4c
this is part of the allure to me!
so i went to grab coffee this morning in my jaguar. i pulled up to the front of the shop and there was a 4c parked in front of me. i took the opportunity to look it over and it sure was a sexy little machine. the owner came out to talk to me and tell me that he was simply in love with the car. told me much of what i have learned on this site from owner's accounts. when he was leaving, i did notice that while in neutral, the passenger side tail pipe seemed to rattle whereas the drivers side was very stable. it was something i could not bare. under load it stopped and when he left, the car sounded insane...a big bark and lovely sounds as he jumped from first to second. it was like an imsa racer. i was able to quickly overlook the rattle at idle.
have any of you all noticed the scenario i descried or do you think this issue would be solved under warranty?
what a little jewel of a car however. maybe the closest thing to a modern day stratos that we will ever see!!
appointment made for Saturday at bob baker alfa romeo for Saturday morning! this has all the risk of a typical alfa love fest for me
I've never heard of that issue. The car comes with a bumper to bumper 3 year warranty with roadside assistance. It's basically like Fiat / Chrysler.
There's a group from LA going up this weekend.
I was very highly involved with the 4C ECU thread and somehow got in the middle of the tuners squabbles. Eurocompulsion claimed their cars tune would smoke the Pogea tune by 4 car lengths and 60+ hp difference. After I couldn't keep my mouth shut anymore, I ended up challenging anyone with an EC tune to put their money with the tuners mouth was. I was running a stage 1 with no air filter. The Eurocompulsion was a stage 2 with stock air filter also. I ended up posting a quicker time on the drag slip when running side by side.
At one point, Madness was the exclusive distributer of Pogea, from what I heard was that there was defaults on Madness paying for products and Madness did what Eurocompulsion was originally accused of, copying the Pogea ECU. Pogea was the first to come out with the tune, not to mention the Centurion 4C's they built as well. Check those out if you get a chance.
So, as my response was, probably very tiring, that's how the threads their became with all the back and forth nonsense.
At the end of the day, every ECU upgrade will blow your mind over the stock one. However, I can tell you on the Pogea, with multiple hard driven track days, in extreme heat, I've never had a code thrown or problem.
Being your in Florida, EC is up in NY and dealing with them maybe easier. But if you'd like some Pogea products, let me know. I currently have ECU sitting in German customs waiting to be delivered to Pogea for a stage 1.5 upgrade and turbo downpipe, Also, check out their valved exhaust for the 4C, it's art.
Sorry to put you all to sleep.
Thanks very much. I read some info on the 4C forum site. I did see where Madness Autoworks used to carry the Pogea ECU tune ( listed now as discontinued). From your response, is it your impression that the Madness Autoworks ECU is any better/worse than the Eurocompulsion?? The Pogea ECU sounds compelling, but the idea of dealing with customs, possible shipping glitches, etc, worries me. I assume when you said you had a Stage 1 tune you are referring to the Pogea product?? How did your measured time compare with the Eurocompulsion Stage 2?? Thank you so much for any insight.
Mark, you might try calling/visiting Mase Engineering and ask their opinion. Mase is a well known race and high performance road car tuner/dyno shop. they are on the southside just south of 295.
Home | Mase Engineering | Tuning, Consulting, Product Development
I'd drive it for a while without the tune. I think if you aren't tracking the car it doesn't make that much sense. As The Mayor alluded to, the car is fast enough on city streets, even the backroads of TN where I hang out.
I had my 308 parked at a cars n coffee next to a 458. I explained the difference to a friend: In the 458 if I get pulled over, I'll be arrested. In the 308 I'll just a get a reckless driving ticket. The 4c is the same way. Fast enough to be fun but not so fast that you'll end up in jail.
I've noticed my exhaust tips vibrate a fair amount but not to the point where they rattle or make any noise.
If you are interested in a 4c, check out Harper Fiat/Alfa Romeo in Knoxville. Offering some really good discounts on in stock models. I was there a few weeks ago and they had 6. Since they've sold 2. Good guys to work with.
I'd definitely go with EC over Madness. They both have good customer service. Both companies are about the same, but I will say Madness is really overpriced. They had upmarked the Pogea ECU way more than what the retail was supposed to be. Hence, why they didn't sell as many and lost them as a company.
yes, I have the Pogea products and their quality is a step above the rest. You wouldn't have to deal with the customs thing. I am having additional tuning done, that's why I sent my back out for the upgrade. From what I have found, Eduard Pogea is actually pretty easy to deal with and get ahold of. The thing is he is engineering for some many different cars and is constantly traveling. If you wanted Pogea parts, I could put you in direct contact with him.
We measured the time by going out to Autoclub Speedway dragstrip and running both cars side by side. We both ran the same amount of gas and in pretty hot temperatures. Just seemed silly someone would make such a bullcrap claim and than get beat at the track. My whole thing with EC was they are full of crap with their dyno results and absurd stories of their car smoking the Pogea by 4 car lengths by just having an additional 60hp. Which turns out, it doesn't. Otherwise the EC is pretty close to being on par with the Pogea tune. But it is not better or faster, so keep that in mind.
I really hate this thread, wish the mods would delete it...
(because now I'm looking at buying a 4C, something I don't need right now)
Thanks. I'll look into them. Cheers.
Test drove a 4C today...thinking about a track car. Now, I must admit I am spoiled and jaded by driving cars like the F12 and Speciale (and C7 Z06) at considerably more money...but...was not overly impressed.
Car is cute to look at, CF tub looks cool.
Climbed gingerly in, being 6'2"... Tight fit.
First impression...cheap plastic here and there, ok no big deal.
Fire it up..dash display looked cheap..hard to read revs and other items..kind of busy looking.
Drive off and has nice pick up in auto mode, nice turbo whistle, feels gocart-like..fun and tiny.
Switched over to manual mode...crappy little plastic shift paddles that are too small IMO, move with the wheel, and the engine note doesn't give you enough sound variety to know exactly where to shift by you ear like the Italia/Speciale/F12 does, have to glance at rev counter...in the Ferrari you can shift with your eyes closed at know within a few hundred rpms where you are near the redline. The DCT was not quick at all, lazy shifts.
Changing direction quickly it pitches and rolls...not flat like the Ferraris..still felt stable though..but not as confidence-inspiring as the Speciale.
It needs (at a minimum in my book):
Better and clearer dash graphics.
Better shift paddles that are fixed in position.
Faster gear changes.
Louder exhaust to listen for shift points.
Another 100 hp to keep up with the Subarus out there.
For the price point the cheap plastics are ok given everything else you are getting, but still disappointing for an Italian toy costing $70k+.
Think I'll pass.
I think Porsche has 'em on this one.