Crash in hamptons

Discussion in 'New York Tri-State' started by msdesignltd, Aug 2, 2017.

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  1. msdesignltd

    msdesignltd F1 Veteran
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    #1 msdesignltd, Aug 2, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
  2. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    Why do people drive like idiots with others in the car? Bad way to kill oneself, but worse to possibly kill your passenger.

    My parents had a home in EH and also were members of Devon YC. My cousin also lives in EH. So I've been down almost every road on the east end.

    I first started going out to the east end of LI back in the early 60s. As a kid we went to my Aunt and Uncles home in Water Mill and my other A & U's home in Amagansett. Buddy and I would spend almost every weekend in Montalk in the mid 70s. Trees are only a couple feet off the roads and if you get in trouble it can end in tragedy.
     
  3. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

    Mar 26, 2003
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    If there is any good news in this, its that the passenger survived. Of course its not 100% clear if he was the owner of the car or truly just a passenger.

    People who speed on public roads or jeopardize others with anti-social driving behavior deserve the steep tickets they get and anything else that comes with it.

    Track events are where you learn how to handle your car and develop skills simultaneously. The unfortunate driver in this instance only proved that either his car was inadequate, he was inadequate or he was unprepared for something that happened ahead of him. There are no accidents.

    PS: his estate should pay for the cost of the extraordinary efforts that were made to try and save them.
     
  4. staatsof

    staatsof Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Did I miss something. I don't see any mention of driving at excessive speed?

    Why such strong condemnation before the facts are in or do you have another source?
     
  5. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    Those roads have fairly low speed limits 35-45mph, but when a car needs to be cut open to get at people and one is dead from impact, I hate to say but speed must have been excessive. I'm guessing like 90mph or more. Not hard to get to a high rate of speed in a Porsche quickly.

    Porsches don't turn into a crumbled mess from a 40 mph impact, nor do any modern cars. Utility poles aren't knocked askew from light impacts.
     
  6. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

    Mar 26, 2003
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    Yes apparently you did. The car left the road and hit a pole. This wasn't the first car to drive down that road nor will it be the last. Hitting poles on that road isn't an everyday occurrence. The pole didn't jump out in front of the car as far as I know, the driver lost control of the car. Like I said, there are no accidents. Its either driver skill or car condition until we get word that the pole jumped in front of the car.
     
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  8. staatsof

    staatsof Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I didn't miss that part. It's the conclusions you're prematurely drawing from that fact that's the problem.
    Is there another article on this incident that has more info?

    So before the investigation results are in you know that it wasn't a mechanical failure or something on the road? Well I don't know either of those which is why I'm waiting. Ever run across something and gone off the road? I have, fortunately it was at a track. But it could something slippery like antifreeze or oil. If he's going through a turn with any gusto he's off instantly.

    My point is why do we have to condemn so strongly before we know?

    If he simply made a judgement error and overcooked it I expect we'll find out.
     
  9. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

    Mar 26, 2003
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    I understand that you would rather have the results of an investigation before drawing a conclusion. That is fine.

    On the other hand, looking at your examples, if one chooses to leave the road and risk hitting a pole rather than strike an object in the road, or if they didn't see the object and react in such a way as to propel the vehicle in the direction of a pole, they demonstrated poor judgement and/or driver skill.

    If someone were to slide off the road due to a slick surface they either didn't recognize it or were following another vehicle too closely to allow a view of the conditions they were headed for. Neither is a good reason for leaving the road although i will agree there are people who see these as legitimate excuses.

    I too have tons of track time and understand that this brings its own collection of variables to bear, but we aren't talking about an incident that took place on a track.

    We'll see what the final report indicates but I wouldn't be surprised if we never see the results at all.
     
  10. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    My question to you would be one of logic. At what minimum speed do you think that car could get into that position and cause one death and almost two.
     
  11. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2008
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    The speed limits are low enough that just about anything that could have caused an accident would have given the driver enough time to slow down considerably more than would seem indicated by the crash.

    If the car hit the pole at a relatively high speed, you can assume the driver did his best to slow the car down well before that. If it looks like he hit it sideways at 40 mph, he probably started quite a bit higher.
     
  12. staatsof

    staatsof Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Fortunately we a legal system that includes investigation and presentation of the facts put before a local district attorney and not an internet lynch mob.

    I don't think he chose to leave the road and hit a pole what remains to be determined is whether he was driving recklessly and he may well have. I might add though that I bet there are times in your driving that people would classify it as reckless like any time you exceed the posted limits. Or do you never speed, never follow too closely and always see everything on the road that might cause a problem? Never hit a pothole?
     
  13. staatsof

    staatsof Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I've not seen the accident site but that's what the investigation is for. I don't think an 87 Porsche has airbags to a side impact to the driver's head could easily kill at 40 mph or lower.

    If he hit something slick that car could easily swap ends and he'd be helpless until it came to a rest.

    And yes he could just have used very poor judgement.
     
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  15. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

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    Your argument is all over the place; stick to your point. You claim the driver could have been driving within the limits of the road and I believe he was not. The reason why I opined about the driver choosing to drive off the road was because you raised that scenario; not me.

    I'm not sure why my driving habits are part of this discussion. I think the legal system you tout would call that "irrelevant".

    So you claim the driver was doing everything right until someone proves he wasn't. That's okay and you are entitled to your opinion. But to someone who has spent his life stretching beyond having to wait for final reports in order to make decisions, this car crash looks to be driver induced. Please do yourself a favor and look at the one photo that shows the car, and the pole at an approximate 45 degree angle. You don't tap a pole at 40 mph and cause the damage that took the life of the driver, severely injured the passenger, and shifted a rather large utility pole. You don't need a final report to see that.
     
  16. staatsof

    staatsof Four Time F1 World Champ
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    My mistake for trying to be reasonable and waiting for the official investigation results. People have tossed around several possibilities now. But obviously you know everything about the situation and the investigation is not needed.

    I suggest you call them up since it appears that your were an eye witness and an expert to boot. I'm sure they could use the help.
     
  17. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

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    Considering the police weren't there either, they go on experience, hunches, deductive reasoning and yes, observations of evidence when its available. As you said earlier, we'll see what they come up with.
     
  18. VGM911

    VGM911 Formula 3

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    Does anyone know if the investigation has been completed, and if the cause of the accident been deduced?
     
  19. Countachqv

    Countachqv Formula 3
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    Logic is sometime applied sometimes not. wihtout condeming the driver for exesssive speed and throw the stone, it is common sense looking at the site speed was involved. Just a fact that is not hard to come by.

    I am sure many would not wait for the facts if an explosive goes off at multiple sites somehwere.. Same logical thinking. Not sure what this argument is about here. the law of the forces of physics to cut a pole and crush a car to a mangled mess dont lie.
     
  20. vjd3

    vjd3 Formula Junior
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    Tragic. Having owned one, an 87 930 (911 Turbo) is not a very forgiving car. No airbags. No ABS, no power steering, no electronic nannies. Slow as molasses off the line and then the turbo kicks in and all hell breaks loose ... if you're a casual or new to the car driver and not pointed straight ahead and get on the boost in a big way, or make the mistake of lifting, you're apt to get into trouble. This is why the Turbo disappeared from the US from 1980-1985 ... people were putting them into ditches and Porsche was getting sued.

    Most people will modify the car with at least a 1 bar boost spring which ups the power considerably; add headers, an intercooler and a K27 turbo and the car is a volatile rocket.
     
  21. boxerman

    boxerman F1 Veteran
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    I was thinking about this accident for a while, then a friend mentioned a friend of a friend had died in an "antique porche with no airbags" in the hamptons, same accident.

    It ocures to me thta many peopel today think they still know how to drive car. yet between esp, stability control abs etc what they are really doing is suggesting what they might like based on their limited skill knowledge and the car then interprets what is possible. This is the case in everything new from a honda minivan to a Mcklaren 720 etc.

    Take those same drivers put them in an "antique porche" throw in possibly some older tires and its all quite easy to understand.

    Not saying I know what happenbed here at all. But many a sucessful person today buys a cool older car, with not but a clue how to operate it, and in the case of carbed cars many cant even start them.
     
  22. staatsof

    staatsof Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Yes. The only car I own that has any of that stuff is my daily driver a Jaguar. All the others are older cars and very fast. Well ... my Maserati Cup car is a 95 and it does have ABS which saved me from going off in turn 1 at Summit Point once as I raced a Challenge 355 into the corner. He wasn't quite so lucky ... :) But that car is a twin Turbo and you do have to be careful with the boost. So I think you have a good point. The early Porsche Turbos had a bad reputation for that sort of behavior.
     
  23. wildcat326

    wildcat326 Formula 3
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    According to the police, neither drugs nor alcohol were considered factors, and there were NO SIGNS OF EXCESSIVE SPEED. Mind you, that car and its wide, grippy tires can handle speeds in excess of the posted limits without necessarily peeling rubber or showing "signs" of racing, but no "signs" mean no discernible tires marks and/or high-speed collision shrapnel/damage, which indicates he wasn't riding the brakes at the time of loss of control.

    Sudden catastrophic control arm failure? Brake failure? Overcorrected or went wide and hit gravel in a turn? Missed downshift destabilized the rear end? Swerved to avoid an animal? Was run off the road by someone trying to drag race/swerving and who then sped off? Tire puncture? Engaged in a sex act and got distracted? In a vintage car like that, without airbags, active safety restraints, crumple zones, driver compartment reinforcement, etc, I can easily see a telephone pole crash at less than highway speeds mangling the passengers.
     
  24. wildcat326

    wildcat326 Formula 3
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    Ahh, yes, as a Ferrari guy forgot that one: sudden and unexpected turbo boost?
     
  25. msdesignltd

    msdesignltd F1 Veteran
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    I did a search for crash in hamptons and Edwaed Reich, cause of death..
    Nothing..Maybe a heart attack???

    But I came across this..

    Geeze, every day above ground is a good day!


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9-vbINX5cE
     
  26. spyder625

    spyder625 Karting
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    that is crazy how that car comes over the divider...
     

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