Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by mpowered, Nov 3, 2012.

  1. I have started the new week 1 FerrariChat Update poll, please vote... http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/ferrarichat-com-update-week-1-poll.560487/
  1. mpowered

    mpowered Formula Junior

    Jul 17, 2008
    588
    United States
    Full Name:
    You Know Me
    Who do you think comes out on top?

    Bonus video p1 opening doors
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IB_ss80isRo[/ame]
     
  2. Ferrari 360 CS

    Ferrari 360 CS F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 4, 2004
    5,597
    Cape Town,SA
    Full Name:
    Jacques
    With all due respect "which comes out top", according to who? Some faceless motoring journalist or according to a game of which has the highest and best figures? Its a senseless comparison in my opinion, each will give its owner/driver driving pleasure.

    Me, I like Ferrari so the Enzo replacement would be my choice, does that make the other two bad, definately not. Its so subjective.

    I have said many times, these cars arent defined by figures, the 288GTO is slow in todays terms, yet when I walk up to one I get goosebumps, when I stand next to an F40 I feel a unique thrill.
     
  3. Drive550PFB

    Drive550PFB F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 10, 2005
    15,938
  4. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Rookie

    Nov 26, 2003
    4,975
    Maybe the prototype still has not a finished interior. That would explain the blacked windows too.
     
  5. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ

    Nov 11, 2003
    12,732
    Orange County, CA
    Full Name:
    Tony
    Thanks for the Video, I think they will all be great cars in their own right, to each their own. I love the P1, but I have a feeling the F70 will be the most stunning in the looks department all though the P1 might be faster around a racetrack.
     
  6. 4re4ever

    4re4ever Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2006
    500
    New Zealand
    Full Name:
    Simon
    Until there is a finished product it's all talk and even then numbers on paper don't always tell the story the bull**** stops when the flag drops
     
  7. Tired of seeing this ad? Upgrade now
  8. Noblesse Oblige

    Noblesse Oblige F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 7, 2011
    6,088
    Three Places
    We must all have too much time on our hands.
     
  9. VF1Skullangel

    VF1Skullangel Formula Junior

    Nov 22, 2008
    437
    San Marcos, CA
    Full Name:
    Jay
    None. Give me the F-40, Mclaren F1 and 959 and we'll have a real race. :)
     
  10. Peloton25

    Peloton25 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 24, 2004
    7,514
    California, USA
    Full Name:
    Erik
    The opposite in fact - the interior of P1 is already finished and was present inside the car unveiled at Paris, but McLaren were not ready to show it publicly yet. They also blanked off openings around the car, including the massive outlet in the rear to keep prying eyes from seeing what's underneath. A few people who have been privileged to see the P1s at the McLaren factory have been invited to see what's inside.

    >8^)
    ER
     
  11. Ferrari_Michael

    Ferrari_Michael Formula Junior

    Nov 30, 2006
    608
    It's exactly what you expect from the outside, inside. Very futuristic, iRobot style. Kers red buttons on the f1 shaped steering wheel, loads of carbon.

    Really don't know why they didn't show it. Typical McLaren get as much exposure over the longest time possible with one product.
     
  12. mrcarlosspicey

    mrcarlosspicey Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 18, 2012
    893
    Omaha
    Full Name:
    Parker
    I still can't grasp on the realization that all three of these hypercars are hybrids. As car enthusiasts, I thought we don't take kindly to new age advancemnts involving more emission restrictions, more driver driver aiding technology, and less of the true car driving experience. They are all beautiful, mega powerful cars that many of us can only dream of owning, but in reality...I'd think the F1, Enzo, and Carrera GT provide a much more authentic driving feel vs the mega hp batteries cars of today and the future. Please share your thoughts on this, I am afterall only 13 with little knowlegde on any of these vehicles I've mentioned (in the behind the wheel sense).....just my 2 cents though.

    Parker
     
  13. anunakki

    anunakki Four Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Oct 8, 2005
    41,994
    Las Vegas Nevada
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    The F70 will undoubtedly come out on top if we are talking about popularity and, most likely, sheer 'awe' factor.

    The CGT never attained anything close to the popularity of the Enzo, in both sales and number of posters hanging on teenage walls.

    If you are talking performance...I dunno....doesnt matter to me as they are all so incredibly close to each other its very much splitting hairs.
     
  14. Tired of seeing this ad? Upgrade now
  15. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,122
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    #13 Napolis, Nov 5, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2012
    Youth..

    Parker my Friend.

    As Dr. Seuss said: "The places you'll go the thing's you'll see..."

    What you must guard against is forming opinions by reading about things as opposed to experiencing them first hand.

    KERS is fantastic and has changed everything.

    Taking the 918 first. It has massive battery life and can run an entire lap of the Ring electrically which gives it an 85 MPH result. That's one reason it's so heavy. Not to worry a MUCH lighter version is coming soon and it will be wicked fast.

    KERS allows you to turn design on it's head. Take the P1. It will make more HP from a touch more than half the displacement of the New Enzo lump by using HUGE turbo's. Huge Turbo's have a lot of lag but with KERS you can use KERS torque to fill in the Turbo lag gap and the combined power will be beyond belief especially as P1 will weigh a lot less than a new Enzo. I saw and sat in P1 and spent a lot of time talking to their engineers. No hypercar existent will be able to stay with it around a race track. It's much smaller than an MP12 and is designed to make massive downforce which can be bleed off by the driver with DRS.

    Both the 918 and P1 can be raced, The new Enzo because of it's fuel inefficient engine can't and racing with KERS is amazing. We developed a computer program that can map a road course and apply KERS using GPS triggers exactly where it is needed (Coming out of turns before the Petrol engine can make torque, adding instant torque for the 4 second gap). We're working with The FIA to develop KERS Sportcar regulations for 2013 and 2014 and the FIA is also merging GT3 and GTE as Grand AM is merging ALMS and Grand AM. The one IMO that will have trouble will be the WEC as LMP1 will likely be only LARGE manufactures such as Audi/Toyota and Porsche. WEC will restrict KERS a lot more than FIA EXP Hybrid.

    The new Enzo looks interesting and it will be interesting to see how it uses it's KERS. A big part is the way drivers control it. In the system we developed the GPS Triggers allow a driver to bring it on at the most efficient places for the most efficient time simply by using the gas pedal and no other controls. If it's button operated it becomes NOS like "Push to pass Boost" and isn't as easy to use.
     
  16. arhimede

    arhimede Formula Junior

    Aug 16, 2007
    653
    supercars are not track cars.

    Ferrari has a track car FXX...i think a 918 spyder is faaar farr behind a fxx.. P1 may be close behind/front...

    I think all 3 makers are playing different games. Ferrari stil plays clasic Supercar game.............
     
  17. Drive550PFB

    Drive550PFB F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 10, 2005
    15,938
    Napolis . . . trying to get a handle on the "feel" of KERS . . . .

    I have driven a Tesla. Was interesting at how consistent the acceleration was--no episodes of greater or lesser acceleration on the torque curve. Also, when I let off the accelerator pedal, no engine braking (though it did slow down--felt like this was induced and not natural).

    Using KERS, does it "even out" the acceleration, making it more Tesla-like, or does it just accentuate the internal combustion acceleration with uneven periods?
     
  18. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,122
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    KERS used the way we've engineered it is seamless. On the Ring we gathered 24 hours of data from three different drivers and found where they used it. They all used it as you'd use it on the street. Coming on the throttle. To bridge the gap before the petrol motor can make Massive torque and once it does to boost that Torque. Our program triggers the KERS at the braking point to regenerate lost kinetic energy and adds it to the foot throttle on the next application at 100% throttle for 4 seconds. Our drivers can also use it manually as they wish but found auto GPS triggering worked great.
     
  19. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 6, 2002
    1,746
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    John William H.
    I can see that programs and data accumulated by Napolis will likely show the massive potential of this technoghy well beyond the mere "green" benefits have may have been its genesis. Jim is truly a pionneer beyond the initial beginnings of his aesthetic designs.

    As a racer I am tickled with the possibility of having maximum variable torque the moment I need it, and without the burden of cumbersome additional mass of the cubic inches normally necessary to produce it. I imagine it could give a racer superman like racing powers of strength and agility. Racing is all about managing these forces and when you can put maximum torque down. For light high revving engines like those made by Ferrari, this is an amazing advantage. I can imagine the nimble flexibility and high revinv engine of a Ferrari engine with the massive torque from of a Corvette! All this is brilliant especially when paired with a highly sophisticated variable tranction control.

    What seemed to many as a forced and green gimmicky techno, may really turn out to me a completely new dimention in racing machines. Who would have guest that the word Hybrid may soon be the ulitkmate in racing spec?


    Napolis, you remind me of a mix between Jim Clark, and Count Volpe in 1962. You are on your way to creating a legend with cars that keep amazing people in more and more legitimate ways. Bravo!
     
  20. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,122
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    :)

    KERS works very well with high revving Ferrari motors. Our 4.5 Liter Ferrari based engine revs to 9K but it's torque curve is not Corvette like. With KERS it is. Using KERS to fill in Torque is an amazing thing to feel. On a race lap at the Ring we recapture 50 seconds of KERS (50KW) every 8:15 second lap just from braking. We also increase MPG by 10% which is huge in that it enables us to run 10 liters less fuel per stint which is a big weight saving.
     
  21. flat-12

    flat-12 Formula Junior

    Mar 18, 2011
    283
    Germany
    So is your "new car" quick and efficient enough for the Manthey 911 or as quick as the Farnbacher 458 was?
     
  22. Drive550PFB

    Drive550PFB F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 10, 2005
    15,938
    Holy crap! That sounds like the Star Trek Enterprise.

    The auto GPS . . . is it that precise to 'come on' consistently when needed? That is an amazing concept.
     
  23. mrcarlosspicey

    mrcarlosspicey Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 18, 2012
    893
    Omaha
    Full Name:
    Parker
    What prevents all gas cars to have a system like KERS ( or is that torque vectoring )? It seems like the computer is doing more racing than the driver.
     
  24. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,122
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    We beat the Manthey 911 at the last 24 and our car is at least 15 seconds
    a lap faster then it was then.

    As for the 458's none showed up for this years 24. We now have 100
    more HP than when we last raced one so I think we would.
     
  25. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,122
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    The New Enzo, P1 and The 918 all do.
    In racing if you meet the rules of EXP Hybrid you can.

    All the computer does is allow the driver to access KERS by the gas pedal when it's most needed.
     
  26. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,122
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    It is.
     
  27. Drive550PFB

    Drive550PFB F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 10, 2005
    15,938
    When I read this, I just smiled and shook my head in awe.

    Man, in spite of all that is going on in the world, it is a great time to be alive.
     
  28. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,122
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    It is.
     
  29. JWeiss

    JWeiss Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Nov 18, 2010
    1,006
    Long Island, NY
    Full Name:
    JWeiss
    If I understand this correctly, the GPS location needs to be precise enough for the car to know it's in, say, turn 15. Mapping says, e.g., that turn 15 exit is a KERS user. The actual initiation of KERS is triggered by the throttle, as the driver goes to power. Is that correct?
     
  30. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

    Sep 30, 2012
    5,415
    The Horn
    Full Name:
    Igor Ound
    Would FIA let torque to the front wheels also as in the 918 and do you think it would be a neat advantage? Tnx
     
  31. cridom60

    cridom60 Formula Junior

    Feb 2, 2007
    789
    France
    Full Name:
    dominique
    what are the last informations available (officially or non officially) regarding the (requested)selling price of those three pearls?
     
  32. Peloton25

    Peloton25 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 24, 2004
    7,514
    California, USA
    Full Name:
    Erik
    Porsche has priced the 918 Spyder at $845,000. I believe the McLaren P1 will be priced around $1.2M and it seems like the new yet-to-be-named Ferrari will be slightly higher at around $1.3M.

    >8^)
    ER
     
  33. atomicskiracer

    atomicskiracer Formula 3

    Mar 30, 2005
    1,546
    Virginia
    Full Name:
    Ryan
    This is along the lines of what I was thinking, the Porsche is around 4-500k cheaper than both of them. I wonder what Porsche could have done differently if they were priced higher...
     
  34. PRS29

    PRS29 Karting

    Dec 5, 2006
    102
    Santa Monica
    The base price is $845,000. After you add some of the options, it goes beyond $1MM. The Weissach editions base price is $925,000.
     
  35. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    24,355
    Paris / Chicago
    Full Name:
    Andrew Menasce
    And they plan on building/selling 918 of them so almost twice more than the Mc P1 and probably the F70.
     
  36. PRS29

    PRS29 Karting

    Dec 5, 2006
    102
    Santa Monica
    Yes. I think they should have decided to make less. That being said, Porsche usually knows what its doing. Although I believe they also made too many CGT's, their values are going to go up. May take some time, but it will happen. Part of that reason is because it was the only "organic" supercar of that time, when compared to the Enzo and SLR (F1 or Auto gearboxes, and in the case of the SLR a supercharger).
     
  37. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    24,355
    Paris / Chicago
    Full Name:
    Andrew Menasce
    They did end the production of the CGT earlier than they wanted (They said they would sell 1500 and i believe demand had stopped at 1200s..). I agree it will go up, in 5-10 years when it becomes a car from another era. Right now they are stable at 300-350k which is less than MSRP of 10 years ago.
     
  38. Flo400

    Flo400 Formula Junior

    Jun 8, 2011
    309
    Munich, Germany
    Full Name:
    Florian
    Yeah but you spend 100k in maintenance over these 10 yrs...
     
  39. atomicskiracer

    atomicskiracer Formula 3

    Mar 30, 2005
    1,546
    Virginia
    Full Name:
    Ryan
    Just like all the other supercars...
     
  40. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,994
    Should be less than half that with 3k miles per year, assuming you don't abuse the clutch.

    My Enzo and F40 are way more than that after only 5 years, and half the miles.
     
  41. Flo400

    Flo400 Formula Junior

    Jun 8, 2011
    309
    Munich, Germany
    Full Name:
    Florian
    A friend had its clutch changed in Germany and it was around EUR 30k if I remember it correctly. Guess you are right: If you don't abuse the clutch. Both owners I know use theirs on an almost daily basis - so in 10 yrs. that's 2x the clutch or EUR 2 every time you change gears :)
     
  42. arhimede

    arhimede Formula Junior

    Aug 16, 2007
    653
    so every time you change your gear you bank account is smaller with a few tens..
     
  43. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 6, 2002
    1,746
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    John William H.
    Ment to type Jim Hall not Jim Clark.
     
  44. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,122
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    :)
     
  45. mpowered

    mpowered Formula Junior

    Jul 17, 2008
    588
    United States
    Full Name:
    You Know Me
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqyZ7JinfbA[/ame]

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFNIqxTT_mw[/ame]
     
  46. ARTNNYC

    ARTNNYC F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jul 8, 2005
    3,745
    NYC, LI, FL
    Full Name:
    Jerome
    #44 ARTNNYC, Nov 16, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
    Just came back from a spirited back roads drive of the nearly empty roads of the Hamptons in my CGT. GOD what a monster that car is! And I just came back from a weekend racing my RSR at Daytona in a couple of "endurance races" and let me say with track biased tires that car would eat my RSR alive. Don't think I will be trading it in anytime soon for the 918
     
  47. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,994
    I concur with the CGT. It's the fastest car for the twisties, especially with the Pirelli tires. The Michelin tires were like driving on ice. Understeer is completely off the menu and you really need to push it hard for oversteer.

    With good tires it's probably faster than the GT2 RS at the Ring.
     
  48. ARTNNYC

    ARTNNYC F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jul 8, 2005
    3,745
    NYC, LI, FL
    Full Name:
    Jerome
    Which Pirelli's did you get Bill as my ORIGINAL Michelins need replacing soon?
     
    Jo Sta7 likes this.
  49. deppi0

    deppi0 Formula 3

    Jun 30, 2010
    1,239
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Edmondo
    Cool new pictures of the roof area. Is the fuel filler on top of the roof or what is that round thing on top of the vent?
    Also does anyone know what the small cut out is for? I am talking about the one just over the door on the top front corner.

    Looks very interesting what they have done with the roof although maybe a little too complicated....
     
  50. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,994
    PZero Rosso. I'd we careful running on tires more than 6 years old, especially those.
     
  51. ARTNNYC

    ARTNNYC F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jul 8, 2005
    3,745
    NYC, LI, FL
    Full Name:
    Jerome
    Thanks...
     

Share This Page