Official Countach Value Thread

Marcus, see http://www.1978countach.com/

It is Peter's website, there you will find a lot of information about #1121006.

 

Joe,

I totally agree with these numbers. It matches what I see and the range can be wide based on the car maintenance. You nailed it but for the top end anniv, I would have gone top $150K for an FI on rodaggio. I assumed you are including Anniv DD for $175K then it maeks sense to me. Again you have certainly more facts than I do.
You are also right about general price disclosure by knowlegeable people. It makes the market more healthy and the "novice" buyers will be more confident.

 

Have them verify with me, they often do.

 

Thank you. You get the spirit of this long-overdue thread.

Of course, this is an International market so why should Annivesarios not include DD examples? I just posted one today that asks $196k and I have sold a USA example that brought $175k all-in. What people are choosing to forget is that I gave a RANGE starting at just $100k! So, after careful consideration, I will leave my numbers alone. For now. Others may think differently, and that's great. Free exchange of information at work, draw your own conclusions.

Also your comment about novice buyers being more confident is spot on! If the marketplace is more defined, there is a confidence amongst prospective purchasers that causes action. As it is, even without checking carefully I know of at least a dozen Lamborghinis of various models here in the USA that I have seen for sale for a year, maybe much more! Why? The general public (prospective buyers to be specific) isn't buying the ask. This hurts the market in general because the confusion makes these individuals wonder why many Lamborghinis don't sell, and fear that they will be faced with the same thing if they own it and come to sell one day. Makes sense?

 

Peter:

I think your thread is in imminent danger of being inducted into the Ferrari Chat Hall of Fame.

Best,

 

Yes soon we will have more than 1.000k views because value obviously is much more important than aesthetical significance and perfection.

BTW I still would like to know the colour that #1121006 wears, but obviously it is not that important.

 

...

 

Well again, with the spirit of driving and enjoyment of the car, no plans to take the wheels of for now. I like the look of the Bravo wheel better, had the extra orginal set, so put them on. As far as being "correct"..again as I have stated prior..not really worried about making sure a car I want to drive and have fun with is "correct" to anyone other then me.

I look at it like the some Ealry Diablo owners putting on 6.0 wheels, or Murcie wheels, it's their car, and if they like it, fine.

The car also has the small litttle square front side marker lights..

I dont need the money, so no reason to part with the wheels. I am also keeping the ones that came off of the S2 as well, no need to sell thos either.

 

Well in the spirit of making sure you can sleep at night...I will be kind enough to trade you cars straight across ??? LOL

 

That is a good idea because a potential buyer nowadays will want them.

 

WOW thanks LC, great website!! I see Peter has more special cars!!

 

LC, this is what i was thinking, these days people speak more about prices then the cars itselves, it looks like the classic cars are turning into stockmarketstuff. Now we even see threads about value only! But.. i also understand now why Peter started this thread now!!

 

The car looks PERFECT like this, i would change NOTHING! These wheels are the same as on Peters car! Black, looks GREAT too! This car looks exacly like the car from Mr Anderson and that is a S1? I do not exacly understand the S1, S2, S3, what is this all about?? Wheels and suspension? The all have the same engine right?

Thanks,
Marcus

 

Marcus,

Your comment about changing nothing is interesting for a CT true value thread.

Here is the issue I see: From Roy's point, its all about fun. He knows what is original or not. He does not care about driving on bravos wheels (that is gustsy!) and the car may have come with it.

As long as he does not market it, all is good although it is best not to mangle the looks of the CT models, especially for the expensive and rare ones, to keep clarity in the mind of non owner/lookers.
The issue here is that the car with bravos looks too close to an S1 and a buyer not aware may be confusing that car with a true S1. That said, we know that Roy would disclose this for the sale.
I am just using Roy's car as an example about why the CT market is so muddied.
Another example ar the turbo CT by B. Wallace. These cars are nowhere near what some people think they are worth. At the end of the day this was an after market mod, even if Wallace name is on it.
A more interesting example are the S1 periscopa because some are factory made. Are they 400 or 400S price, or more in their own right? who will say so?

Back to your comment on Roy's S2. We are talking about true values and serious collectors interest in thoses cars. If they feel, rightly or wrongly, that some sellers are playing games with the cars model, true collectors will just go away from the perception of a shady market. In my opinion that is what is at stake. Its not about if the car looks right, its about the car being correct to establish a clear market.
I love the 400 now. But I wont convert my DD into one although it would be possible. It would look fantastic right? If I would do that could I market it for $300K ?

If Roy were to sell the car, he should put the correct wheels on and sell the bravos as spares without the car and there would be no qui-proquo on the buyer's side.
The wheels themselves are calling for a more expensive sell price and given the low volume, one may wonder, what does this do to S1 or S2 prices?

Roy has tried to build and has become at the level of a trusted seller/member in the community and he certainly would disclose the true identity of the car.
But what about the many others out there who do such things in purpose to confuse buyers and sell them apearances for more? that is what kills a market especially a very small market.

Roy,
I hope you dont get this the wrong way. I just play the game of this thread and look at this from a rich (I wished) not too knowledgeable collector looking for a CT of value.
It is not about you but the story about wheels is a perfect illustration on the affect of values and perception. Whay do you think?

 

Thanks, Emilio, but i do not want any S1 for 500 K euro and nor for 500 K USD... i think 250 k USD is the price or 300 if it's the best in the world or has some special feature.

It was just to talk about prices, i have one Countach and it's enough: another one just if i sell this... and i do not want to sell this as it costed me almost like an S1...

And then S1 and S2 are too low for me, even if they are the best looking Countach (imo).



ciao

 

For those who might not know Roy, your words appear to be a thinly veiled critique of Roys motives which may not be your intent - but thats how its coming across. If you are trying to make an example, it didn't need to be tied to anyone in particular - especially someone not selling the car.

-mick

 

Good answer, but you already passed the Cape of Good Hope, so there is no hope for you...

 

true about "not our countach" in europe. Being French, I wanted a DD from the start just because that the car we talked about over there. But in the US market I almost gave up finding one. Took close to 2 years and a hint from Steve a former DD owner, whom I am greatful for ending with my car.

I believe we should split the anniv DD from the Anniv Injected just like we do for the QV. This will help sort things out. european as a rule, do not care about US injected and its restrictions. I know this.

That said, we also need to point out that if an S1 in need is more than a good S2 it has to do with collectability and rarity. price may not be reflective of value. Prices are mostly driven by collectors not the average buyer as we saw in the rise of the 400.
Again this is an opinion forged on general knowledge. ther are always exception to the rules but I think these are the rules.

BEST VALUE:
To me the best value CT for a non collector guy who wants to drive and enjoy are :
1. QV Injected for the best value.
2. Anniv injected if you want to scale up to more reliable and better AC.
These cars are 75% of what you will find at any time on the market. You dont have to worry about your expensive bravo wheels or that one off magnesium part. You can put on miles without trashing tons of meny in depreciation.

DRIVER / COLLECTOR BEST VALUE:
Then you have the semi-collector / drivers who are willing to put up with a few things and is peculiar about a specific model or technology. seeking some appreciation but also will to drive regularily 5-7km/ year
1. LP500S carb or factory sanction injections (for less money)
2. 400S3

COLLECTOR WITH "LIMITED" MEANS:
limited regular driving. these cars are set for faster appreciation over the next few years.
1. Anniv DD
2. QV DD (milestone for lambo 4 Valve)
3. 400 S2

HIGH POWER COLLECTOR MARKET DRIVEN:
Not recommended for regular driving if car is kept original (which is the point). Some parts are very rare and the car is more expensive to keep. Build was not the best but these cars
1. 400 (original design)
2. 400S1 (new Wolf look defining the countach direction)

This is a first shot so we can keep value in perspective from the top collector's market down to the wealthy guy who wants to have fun. This is how I see this market.

A final note. May be the guys who put DD at $250K or 500S at $180K just are confused with this market and they just dont know what differs a 400S1 from a 500S for instance. At least with Muiras you have only 3 variants to deal with