Replica WW1 Aerodrome

Discussion in 'AviatorChat.com' started by snj5, Apr 14, 2012.

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  1. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ
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    #1 snj5, Apr 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well, my search for an airpark has come up bollocks. With my part time biz in Dayton growing, it was suggested I look at moving the T-28 money once sold into a Dayton "office" and crash pad as the hotel is wearing thin.

    So, why not build a small aerodrome of my own and use it for business? Kinda. And, could it be done as a small WW1 aerodrome for my and similar little kites?

    Requirements:
    1. main runway axis about 2000 - 2500 feet
    2. some open field to give a crosswind LANDING option. For these planes about 1200 - 1400 feet is way enough.
    3. A period appearing hangar(s)
    4. Small European styled cottage to use for short stays
    5. Station hack vehicle and airplane.
    6. Possible use as a small museum or hangarage for similar antique or replica aircraft.

    To date:
    1. Looking at flat pastureland near Xenia Ohio
    2. Looks like 10 acres for single runway and about 21 acres for multiple
    3. Looking at pre-fab wood structures
    4. Looking at small prefab structures for a cottage.
    5. Model T truck as a station hack and bowser with fuel can and transfer pump
    6. Will market during the next WW1 fly in in

    Apparantly the FAA is not so much the prob as are the local zoning regulations.

    A main inspiration is the restored WW1 airfield Stow Maries

    All ideas welcome!
    small-cottage-sips.jpg
    ford t truck.jpg
    Baslee-Nieuports-Flyboys-Set-0605-001.jpg
     
  2. Wade

    Wade F1 World Champ
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    I remember going to the 94th Aero Squadron restaurant in Tampa years ago. Its theme was the French farmhouse with barn converted to an aerodrome. Looking that up this morning I see that the concept appears to be a chain or franchise. You may find some ideas at these locations.

    http://94thaerosquadron.signonsandiego.com/
    http://94thaerosquadron.signonsandiego.com/gallery.html
    http://www.94thvannuys.com/94thvannuys/
    http://www.94thmiami.com/94thmiami/

    Google images:

    http://www.google.com/search?q=94th+aero+squadron&hl=en&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=mVmJT923N8OC2AXdm_zOCQ&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CCwQ_AUoAQ&biw=1199&bih=697
     
  3. tritone

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    #3 tritone, Apr 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome....
    old-rhinebeck.jpg
     
  4. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ
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    You would NEVER see a Sopwith parked at the Royal Aircraft Factory.
    :)
     
  5. Bob Parks

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    Gee Russ, I wish that you had told me about your project! I had an old WW1 fuel bowser and I gave it away just last week. I also just sold a Model T the other day because I didn't have room for it and I tore down an old cottage in the back yard because it had ivy growing all over it. Some lady took the beveled glass windows and oak door. My son-in-law tore down the old barn in his pasture because he couldn't store the old German airplane that was in it . He said he didn't fly so he gave it to some guy who liked the big 6 cylinder engine in it. Well, that's the way it goes, it's " You should have been here last week " all over again.
    Ol' Bob
     
  6. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ
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    I was crying until about the third sentence when I said, wait just a tootin minute....
    :)
     
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  8. tritone

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    next you're going to tell me that's an Austin not a Peugeot....
     
  9. Bob Parks

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    A true story. About 35 years ago I corresponded with a fellow about preparing a sailboat painting for him and he mentioned that he had a sort of an aviation museum. He was nosing around in Florida and tracked down a rumor about an old airplane that a guy had in a barn. Heard this before? He located it and opened the old doors to see an intact 1917 Fokker D-7 looking at him. After cleaning the plugs, changing the oil, and checking for leaks, they fueled it and it cranked up with no trouble.
     
  10. snj5

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    #9 snj5, Apr 17, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2012
    you are killin' me
     
  11. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
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    Yellow Springs, OH near Antioch college seems like an approproiate setting, alternately use the original Wright strip next to the WPAFB main entrance - the museum accross the street probably has everything on your list. If your business is USAF related, land at the top of the ski-jump runway and coast up to the museum ;) :D maybe they will work something out with you.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  12. Bob Parks

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    I wonder if anyone remembers that the hangars on WW1 airfields were covered with canvas, dark and probably waxed, and hung over a wooden frame. Then there were tail skid dollies made from wheels of the airplanes that supported little buckets into which the tail skids were placed so the batmen could move the airplanes about. Ah yes! The days of yore! I have often wondered what the hell yore was.
    Who the hell were batmen? They were the mechanics, called fitters, but where the did the term batmen come from? That is your assignment, Russ, if you are going to do this WW1 thing.
    Ol' Bob
     
  13. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ
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    A batman (or batwoman) is a soldier or airman assigned to a commissioned officer as a personal servant.

    The term is derived from the obsolete bat, "packsaddle" (from French bât, from Old French bast, from Late Latin bastum) + man
     
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  15. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    I'll bet that you just made that up. Russ.

    Another story.The Hood River museum staff saw an ad on line by some one who had an old airplane for sale...in his barn. They investigated it and found a 1917 Curtiss JN4D. All of it was there and in very good shape. They bought it on the spot and when they inspected it they found a maker's plate, a beautiful little cloisonne' badge in the rear cockpit. It had stamped on it "JN4D Ser.1". This has been challenged by some but nobody has proven it to be a fake. I did a painting of the Jenny flying near Mt. Hood but they didn't want after it was finished. It is a pretty nice painting, too.
     
  16. Fullagas

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    snj5,
    Have you looked at Moraine? www.moraineairpark.com
    Has the atmosphere, and lots of vintage aircraft. Was told Wacos were once made there, not sure...
     
  17. I16

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    I think that they were called Bessoneau Hangers.

    Here is a site with lots of information and photos of WW1 buildings etc.

    http://www.stowmaries.com/
     
  18. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ
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    Yes - Stow Marie's is fantastic. I am also signed up on their Facebook page.

    Right now it is looking like Dayton. Have contacted a realtor. Just for kicks may have an LSA school there with a Champ or something.
     
  19. snj5

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    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    After looking at many not so great candidates for my ever decreasing budget, a possible small piece of land has been located just outside of Dayton. It is in very flat farmland, 1600' x 311'. It has VERY clear approaches on either side (soybean fields), effectively giving the capability of a bit larger field. It has paved road access and is 1/4 mile off major highway exit.

    It is currently in corn, which would require some discing, seeding and rolling. Drainage seems good, and the earth is a pretty stiff clay. Have electricity, but would need a well and septic. One side is lined by hardwood trees, and it is fairly closely aligned with prevailing winds

    Oddly enough, there are also two other small strips up the same road, one for ultralights and one for a Champ and Pietenpol. Most neighbors are pilots somehow.

    Am thinking about a two bay hangar, similar to the common gabled hanger often seen, with two 40' x 40' bays. That would fit the two Sopwiths and any folks that wanted to visit, say during DPR. Might add a small pre-fab as a crash pad if I can find one that looks like a French farmhouse. Any referrals or suggestions here welcome.

    My budget has taken a bit of a hit lately, and have to be a bit more modest in my dreams. The land is priced pretty much as farmland, so it seems affordable. It's everything else that adds up so fast. Will start working some details, and still looking for other possibilities.

    All advice welcome.
     
  20. Bob Parks

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    Oh how I envy you! It sounds like a good start and I wish I could be on the spot to help. So I say GO GO GO.
    SWITCHES
     
  21. I16

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    Have to agree with Bob Parks. Wish I was close by.
    If you have a local pre-fab builder let me see their floor plans and elevations, I could come up with exterior & interior ideas that could give you the French farmhouse look.

    Looking around for some other information turned up this site 'wow'

    http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/

    Hit the links page and more super stuff is found!
     
  22. Bob Parks

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    I16, thanks for posting this vintage aviator site. It is beautifully done and has wonderful contents. Russ, I hope that you see this.
    Switches
     
  23. I16

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  24. FERRARI-TECH

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    Bugger me senseless !! I grew up less than a mile from there...i probably left motocross tyre tracks in the field...i had no idea it was ever there or the history of it..I was always more of a WW2 nerd anyway..Bradwell Airfield (mosquito's) was the closest one i Knew of ( and where i learned to drive because most of the paved runways and perimeter roads where still intacked)

    My Mum still lives less than 30 min away. will have to visit.

    Crazy so much Aero history in that part of the country all hidden behind hedges and barns.
     
  25. BigTex

    BigTex Six Time F1 World Champ
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    We have a peer group partner in Dayton, OH........

    For your runway lighting and other electrical needs...it would be kind of neat to fly over in the dark and remotely trigger a runway lighting scheme out of Star Wars....

    Better than a trench of gasoline.....
     
  26. FERRARI-TECH

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    It gets better, just looked at the map and location and that is where i used to fly RC planes, when i was a teenager, we called it "Flambirds Farm" which i think is what it may have been called in the war.. I rode by on the school bus every day for 10 years.....small world..Glad someone got it going again.
     
  27. snj5

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    #25 snj5, Jan 20, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    We closed on the land on Friday, 12 January. Flying back to San Antonio with the deed in my carry-on. Currently the field, formery in corn is plowed under, is now seeded with winter rye. Lots of work to do. If I can afford it, the hangar will be a smaller replica of an RFC aeroplane twin shed, with two 40' wide bays. Talked to the contractor already.

    Here is the little aerodrome last Friday after we closed.
    IMAG0503january.jpg
     
  28. Tillman

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    #26 Tillman, Jan 20, 2013
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    Excellent
    1269881537-clapping-gif.gif
     
  29. FERRARI-TECH

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    +1

    You should ask for volunteers to come and help..sure there would be plenty of helpers on this forum :)
     
  30. tritone

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    #28 tritone, Jan 20, 2013
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    Russ; looks like a good candidate for volunteer housing! Has the right vibe....
    Spartan-Royal-Mansion.jpg
     
  31. Bob Parks

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    #29 Bob Parks, Jan 20, 2013
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    Russ, this is an exciting and worthy enterprise and I wish that I could be an active part of it. I don't know if I have mentioned it but when I was 11 years old and sick with something that knocked me out of school for a year I stayed home and built 1 /48th scale WW1 models of the Allies and the German Air Forces, Fk D-7's, Spads, Camels, and Albatrosses. Much to my parents displeasure, I built an aerodrome in the living room on the carpet complete with the old hangars and tail skid dollies. I think that I had 12 airplanes that were staged " and flown" there in the living room. The models were carved carefully out of balsa, I think that they were Megow kits that came not only with the wood and plans but with little bottles of the correct paint. I loved the smell of the dope when they were opened. No one paid any attention to my passion but I didn't care, I was with my heroes doing battle in the skies over France... in our living room.
     
  32. FarmerDave

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    Wonderful! Cheers!
     
  33. teak360

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    Excellent!
     
  34. snj5

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    #32 snj5, Jan 28, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Roughed out plans taking shape:
    Phase 1: Field, Hangar and cottage
    Phase 2: Driveway, Carriage House and Ops building
    Phase 3: Orchard and henhouse
    dual shed.jpg
    farmhouse 1.jpg
    brickel phase 1.jpg
     
  35. snj5

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    #33 snj5, Feb 9, 2013
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    Land bought. Got cottagre elevations back from builder for changes(attached, I added a little color). Settling in on hangar and ops building plans (see attached elevations). Found a place that makes Bessoneau hangars, and will add next year or so.

    Would also like to have a small agricultural thing going for fun, but something fairly simple. Folks have suggested a nut tree orchard, a few chickens, christmas tree farm, and others. One friend even suggested some illegal crops which I will not do.

    All advice welcome.
    brickel 5.jpg
    hangar 2.jpg
    french farm2.jpg
     
  36. snj5

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    #34 snj5, Apr 7, 2013
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    Aerodrome:
    Began dragging the field today and prepping for the grass seeding this week. The seeded useable runway area will be 150 x 1600 feet, extending from the hangar pad to the opposite property line.
    The hangar wood started showing up today as well, and the post holes were placed. Posts go up tomorrow, and trusses next couple of days.
    The fine gravel/powder topcoat for the driveway went in today as well to hold the larger stones together.

    Also attached is a drawing of the final cottage elevation.

    Do-it-yourself Bessonneau:
    Talked to the wood supplier today - he estimated the cost of supplies for a 63' wide x 40' deep Bessanneau was about $8K. I have located a fabric guy, and will see what his envelope will cost. The envelope consists basically of the sides, a front piece and a top piece, held by heavy lacing.
    IMAG0585.jpg
    IMAG0588small.jpg
    IMAG0587small.jpg
    albrecht 2.jpg
     
  37. snj5

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    #35 snj5, Apr 7, 2013
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    There are approximately 2 acres of land between the drive and the airfield going up to the cottage that will be a unfarmed meadow. To decorate this, about a pound of Papaver rhoeas seeds will be planted. While once considered a common weed in Flanders, I think $65 of seed will add a lot to the ambience.

    Flanders Field Poppy Seed, Gardening Tools from the Wildflower Seed and Tool Company Catalog of Napa Valley, California

    Papaver rhoeas, the Flanders Corn Poppy:
    MED_1152.jpg
     
  38. FarmerDave

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    Just, wow! Bravo sir.
     
  39. snj5

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    #37 snj5, Apr 9, 2013
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    I followed the RFC model closely but the hangar (technical shed) turned out a wee bit more than I thought....

    Cottage has run into contractor challenges. I think my small house project is a nuisance to him.
    IMAG0590small.jpg
     
  40. I16

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    #38 I16, Apr 10, 2013
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    Maybe a few vines as in the attached photo - Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc.
    Note the deadstick landing!
    Sav.jpg
     
  41. teak360

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    You bought the land in January, and now you've got the framing well under way. Nice progress you're making. Keep up the good work, this is an inspiring project.
     
  42. snj5

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    #40 snj5, Apr 21, 2013
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    Out buying tall thin baby trees to line the driveway (Route Guynemer :) ) to give that European look, and provide a modest windbreak. In about 2 years they will be about 20 - 30 feet high
    I have begun taking testosterone injections in preparation for converting the Camel's tailwheel to a steerable skid like the original. Before we put the Gnome engine on, I may require transplantation of a third testicle.
    IMG956800.jpg
     
  43. Bob Parks

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    #41 Bob Parks, Apr 21, 2013
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    Russ, we all cheer your orchestration of this wonderful project. What a fine thing to do! I wish that I could help with the third cajone but I don't think that you will need it. Keep your eyes on the target at the end of the strip and keep the feet alive like you are with your project. I really do wish that I could help with this endeavor but maybe down the line some WW1 style art would add to the atmosphere.
     
  44. snj5

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    If you ever make it out here in the next couple of years, we'll saddle you up in the Penguin, tailskid, blip switch and all if we get it made.
     
  45. Bob Parks

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    You are on. Who knows, I might get the Penguin off the ground!
     
  46. tazandjan

    tazandjan Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Russ- The good news is most of the guys with rotary experience say the torque is not that big a deal and Fred even says there is not that much difference in right and left turns in his 120 LeRhone powered F.I Triplane. Looks like another overblown wive's tale from WW-I. Many of the guys crashing Sopwith Camels in WW-I had less than 100 hours total time.

    Penguin should be a fun trainer.
     
  47. Bob Parks

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    Taz, I am always amazed at the airplane reacting to the torque when the rotary is unleashed to full power. In the videos of the Camel, the airplane rocks considerably when the engine is goosed. I think that there has to be some reaction in flight, particularly at low flight speed.
     
  48. snj5

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    I am a bit concerned about the torque. A mitigating factor is that I am using the smallest engine to power Camels, the 100 hp Gnome. The 160 Gnome Camels, such as in NZ and California, have been described to me a much more of a bear to handle. The 100 Gnome was used on Avro 504 trainers, so I am hoping for straightforward characteristics. I have watched most of the You tube videos of the NZ 160 Camel and a NZ 100 gnome Avro on approach landing and taxi to get an idea of the blip rhythms.
    Another psychological barrier I am going to need to cross is turning off the gas for prolonged descents. I know it was common proceedure, but it will just be hard for me to basically shut down a perfectly well running engine.
     
  49. tazandjan

    tazandjan Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Russ- Air starts on a rotary are just about automatic. You are not really shutting down the engine by shutting down the fuel valve. The ignition is still firing, the propeller and engine are still rotating and the valves are still working. When you add fuel to that, the resumption of power will be pretty much instantaneous.

    You will get used to shutting down the fuel. Just think of it as using the throttle. The first time you forget, the result when you restart will make sure you remember the next time.

    Bob- There is a torque reaction, but it is not that bad. Most of the Camels had Clergets and the throttle on those only gave a small reduction or increase in revs inflight. Had more affect on the ground, but to give you some idea, even on the throttled LeRhones and Clergets, the throttle could not be reduced enough for landing in most cases. The blip or coupe switch is used to cut power during landing. With carburetors, the Clergets and LeRhones did not have the same problem with fuel collecting as the Gnomes with their fuel injector/sprayer.

    As mentioned in another thread, the 160 Gnome used on Camels and Nieuport 28s had a system for changing the firing order to use like a throttle mechanism. Use the original firing order and then fire one, skip one. Because of the odd number of cylinders, all cylinders fire. For less power, fire one skip two, etc, and all cylinders still fire, just not as often. Very ingenious.
     
  50. Bob Parks

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    Thanks, Taz. Very informative for a neophyte to rotary ops.
     
  51. snj5

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    #49 snj5, Apr 24, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Roof on
    Pouring floor on Friday
    Slow steady progress
    IMAG0617.jpg
     
  52. tazandjan

    tazandjan Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Russ- No hanging around once you have a plan. I like that.
     

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