SE 30 thread

Discussion in 'LamborghiniChat.com' started by kane00, Nov 24, 2006.

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  1. Diablo_4_Ever

    Diablo_4_Ever Formula Junior
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    Perhaps. Both are high-mileage cars, which is great and irrelevant as long as the cars were well maintained, but it might affect current value. The titanium car had damage (advertised as unfallfrei), I inspected it when it was offered by a restoration company. The black car had some modifications before, I don't know about its condition but the color combination seems unique. It was previously owned by a guy with a Motorcycle Museum (Auto-Zweirad in Pleidelsheim), he used it on the racetrack until 2008. Optional electric windows. With modified exhaust, said to have different camshaft and cylinder heads "increasing output by 150HP" (I doubt it). For sale since 2015; first listed at 255K Euro, then 389K after which the price gradually dropped to its current value.
     
  2. The only se30's which really trade above USD 300'000 are purple ones with the blue alcantara interior. The ones with a the grey alcantara interior are already trading at a discount. Purple se30's with the standard leather are difficult to sell. All the other colors are very difficult to sell at higher prices.

    The following car was offered in the end at below USD 300'000 as it didn't sell for a long time:

    http://www.lutziger-classiccars.ch/lamborghini-Diablo-SE-30--1994-Schwarz_k855fNWHTXledY0idpORvA.aspx

    The history of the car was without any doubt. It was first bought by a big collector in Switzerland and stayed with him for almost 20 years.

    The following car has been for sale since quite a while too:

    https://www.autoscout24.ch/de/d/lamborghini-diablo-coupe-1996-occasion?index=2&make=43&model=655&sort=price_desc&st=1&vehid=5040112&vehtyp=10&returnurl=%2fde%2fautos%2flamborghini--diablo%3fmake%3d43%26model%3d655%26sort%3dprice_desc%26st%3d1%26vehtyp%3d10%26r%3d5

    Jotas are a different story. They can trade at a massive premium.

    In my opinion only purple cars with the blue alcantara interior can be sold at USD 300'000 and more except really low mileage cars like the black one offered in this thread. There might be a collector who is willing to pay a premium for such a "brand new" car.
     
  3. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Perhaps.

    But by way of example, we have sold purple, red, black and white SE30s (all with leather interiors) for anywhere from $50,000 to $235,000 above that figure.
     
  4. If I ever should sell one of my cars I will contact you for sure. It seems you achieve the best possible price.
     
  5. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran
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    still available?
     
  6. Diablo_4_Ever

    Diablo_4_Ever Formula Junior
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    Owned by swiss2000
     
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  8. Diablo_4_Ever

    Diablo_4_Ever Formula Junior
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    Your comments make no sense to me, there are quite a lot of non-purple/blue cars that sold over that price in recent years. This color combination might be sought after as it was special for the SE, but it was also the most common.
     
  9. No, it was sold in the end after the owner reduced the price quite a lot.
     
  10. Olivier NAMECHE

    Olivier NAMECHE F1 Rookie
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    The fact is still "surprising"...

    Starting from a price level these 2x cars have extensive history, thanks for the comments, after reaching top asking prices (like many others), they are now going down...

    Is this just a coincidence ?

    or a market trend ? looking at Diablo 6.0 VT in Europe they are now -25% below asking price of 1st 2017 trimester, and SV are also going down like the one RHD sold yesterday by Bonhams at Goodwood - UK...
     
  11. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Happy to help you anytime.

    Olivier,

    As we know different variants have differing markets hot or cool at different times, so for purposes of objective discussion, let's stick with the limited-edition SE30s, the thread's topic.

    From my sold experience, if you have a no-stories low-mileage example of an SE30 in superb condition that has been well-maintained, you'll do well and the trend for those is not downwards by any means.

    That said, one phenomena that I have spoken about in the past, affects the sales of these cars, including great examples is, if a car has been on the market seemingly forever & ever, especially starting at a high price that is subsequently reduced, this kills it's desirability in the eyes of a prospective buyer. How do I know this? I am told this by prospective buyers, often. The perception is, that the car did not sell because the initial ask was too high, so, it then becomes a game of waiting to see how much the seller will reduce the price by. Some great cars are caught up in this type of scenario, and, because timing is everything, it doesn't necessarily mean that going forward the market for there is headed anywhere but upwards for excellent examples thoughtfully marketed.
     
  12. Mr Mezzanotte

    Mr Mezzanotte Formula Junior
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    my Six Sigma training (as used by Lamborghini since the Chrysler days) would tell me you need 3 points in a direction (up or down) to dictate a trend.
    A single value won't cut it.
     
  13. licodix

    licodix Formula Junior

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    Good Points. Market is a bit unstable these days.

    But how about SE30 Jotas?
    Any real price lead for today's value?
     
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  15. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    :D

    Jotas are rare, so, there are far less market comps to establish value.

    That said, last year @ RM auction's May 14th 2016 Monaco sale, Lot number 241, SE30 Jota 132/150, a nice but not perfect car, sold for 672,000 Euros, which is like $803,712 today.

    As I posted earlier, today's markets are very polarized with huge value ranges across the same variant, and, different cars have different markets, some hot, some cool. In short it pays to analyze the market properly, and it is true, some models, variants or even individual cars are cool.

    That said, by way of example in favor of solid markets, this past month I've sold two GTOs for the best part of $3m each, and, someone paid almost $4m for a low-mileage one (729 kms) this weekend at RM's Maranello sale, so, perhaps the sky is not falling.
     
  16. licodix

    licodix Formula Junior

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    Your personal valuation of a JOTA?
     
  17. Diablo_4_Ever

    Diablo_4_Ever Formula Junior
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    Do the North American SE have a VVT engine?
     
  18. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I defer to the most recent market result as above, FWIW I've personally never handled an SE30 Jota.
     
  19. christiann

    christiann Karting

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    We can give it shot Joe. The # starts with 1 and has a lot of zero's behind it.
     
  20. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    :D
     
  21. Diablo_4_Ever

    Diablo_4_Ever Formula Junior
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    Just did some research regarding this. Noticed that based on chassisnumbers the Euro/base SE have 5.7v12VVT engine vs. US/Canada 5.7v12. From the parts catalogue it follows that the US/Canada cars have different valves, among other things. What are the implications in terms of output?
     
  22. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

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    VVT motors first appeared in 1998 MY, so, no, the SE30s do not have VVT engines
     
  23. Diablo_4_Ever

    Diablo_4_Ever Formula Junior
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    Ok. But like I said, based on the VIN the North American cars have a different engine code than the base model:

    Digit 7 = Engine (0=3.5v8, 5=5.5v12, 7=5.7v12, 2=5.7v12VVT, 1=v12VVT)

    I take it that this VIN explanation is not applicable to the SE

    For those interested, regarding the valves/performance I found an old comment here:
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/se-30-thread.130029/page-6#post-138450719
     
  24. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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  25. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

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    Look here

    http://www.gday.com/lambo/misc/vins.htm

    that should help

    the US spec SE30s used same VIN code as the VT's (7)...but the engine was not entirely the same as Victor noted in the link above from 2009
     
  26. hashiriya

    hashiriya Formula Junior

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    SE with VVT means it was 6.0SE - the 2000-2001 version, each chassis had received a plate "6.0 special edition".
     
  27. Diablo_4_Ever

    Diablo_4_Ever Formula Junior
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    020/150 back on the market in Italy at 490K euro after it didn't sell at 355K euro high bid a few months ago, which already seemed a very high bid for this car in my opinion.
     
  28. elms

    elms Formula Junior

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    I am not saying this an owner trying to talk the values up, but I think these cars and Diablo's in general still .have a long way to go.
     
  29. Lemacc

    Lemacc Formula Junior
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    I think we have to differentiate between the cars itself. As the market shows, well preserved cars, full maintained and with complete history still bring good sells prices.
    There are cars, like for example #20, #053, #064, #144 which have here and there some unclarity in the history.

    #099 for example (no connection to it) is a well preserved car, which will find a buyer sooner or later. The only problem i see on this car is that it has leather and no alcantara interior.
     
  30. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    In all my sales of @ half-a-dozen superb SE30s, the word 'Alcantara' has not been mentioned by the buyer, not once.

    Just another perspective.
     
  31. andecorp

    andecorp Formula 3
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    Personally, for myself, it would have to be a purple car with blue alcantara or nothing.
     
  32. S_AGATA

    S_AGATA Karting
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    It would really all depend on the price wouldn't it? Personally I prefer the alcantara as well but I wouldn't pass up an amazing deal.
     
  33. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    The Amari SE30 in the UK with 26,000 miles priced @ $726,000 fits that description precisely.
     
  34. Lemacc

    Lemacc Formula Junior
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    Yes because you´re based in USA and the cars which were delivered to the states just have leather interior . In europe the people prefer the alcantara which makes the SE30 so special.
     
  35. christiann

    christiann Karting

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    I guess I am from usa because I would pass on the alcantara.
     
  36. Lemacc

    Lemacc Formula Junior
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    I just can tell you my experience on the european market. The people here prefer alcantara, i had #99 for sale and some potential buyers passed on the car because it had leather interior.
     
  37. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    That's understood, there are definitely regional preferences, and the one European SE30 I have sold to the USA has beautiful white leather interior.

    Also, I recall someone re-trimming a USA car in Alcantara years ago and subsequently having difficulty selling it.

    Not to go off-topic, but did Diablo SVs not also come with Alcantara?
     
  38. Lemacc

    Lemacc Formula Junior
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    I assume also the temperatures in the particular countries are an important aspect, on higher temperatures i believe leather is maybe more comfortable than alcantara.
    Maybe thats the reason why US, ARAB spec cars were delivered with leather interior. Sure if you re-trimming a car, its a post production modification which isnt anyones taste.

    Diablo SVs for the european market came mainly in alcantara, us market cars mainly in leather.
     
  39. Mr Mezzanotte

    Mr Mezzanotte Formula Junior
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    Alcantara is also a lot lighter than leather, and that's the advantage I think Lamborghini was thinking of with the SE30 and SV.

    And its not just the seats, but the whole interior.
     
  40. Diablo_4_Ever

    Diablo_4_Ever Formula Junior
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    I believe it is just that in North America and elsewhere, like the Middle East, leather is regarded as the highest quality material. Hence, dealerships ordered their cars with full leather interiors, as they thought it would be what their clients wanted. In Europe and Japan there was more interest for alcantara, probably as it was seen as one of the special features of the SE. That having said, there are also some custom ordered cars with both leather and alcantara, for those that couldn't make up their mind :p
     
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  41. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Thanks for the clarification.

    Perhaps the use of Alcantara was meant to convey the motorsports look, as the difference in weight is negligible.

    Agreed.

    That said some special SE30s such as the Jota-appointed 132/150 had leather seats.

    From a practical point of view, leather is not only more comfortable, its easier to keep in nice condition as Alcantara wears poorly in high-use areas.
     
  42. Mr Mezzanotte

    Mr Mezzanotte Formula Junior
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    Joe, try reading this..

    Its partnership with Lamborghini is a fine example: a perfect combination of technical and stylistic advancement that strengthens and highlights the specific qualities of the two brands. Thanks to its versatility and the possibility of reducing the weight of its upholstery to a minimum, Alcantara guarantees original aesthetic touches and compliance with a sporty style.

    from: https://squadracorse.lamborghini.com/partners/alcantara

    its important to note - there are 2 weights of Alcantara available for seats and panel.

    So I think this is down to market option/preferences - Europe Alcantara, US/Arabia - Leather, but there is a difference in weight.
     
  43. revio

    revio Karting
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  44. elms

    elms Formula Junior

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    I have to agree, leather in a SE30 is just wrong. It's akin to a F40 with leather trim.
     
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  45. S_AGATA

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    Awesome spec! I'd have a tough time choosing between this and the black/blue combo.
     

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