Transmission problem ferrari california 2011

Discussion in 'California' started by Majedcali, Jul 15, 2017.

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  1. Majedcali

    Majedcali Rookie

    Jul 2, 2017
    2
    Hey guys

    Recently the transmission started to not work properly.
    After a 30min drive specially when gear changes from 1 to 4 and back 4 to 1 like in trafficy areas a this sign flashes ^operation not admissible^. If i turm the car off like for couple of hours it drives fine for a couple of minutes then again this sign shows up and the gear changes become very rough and car becomes not drivable.
    I went to one guy who works in ferrari and checked the car
    These errors came up
    P1903 app clutch pressure odd too low
    P0931 electric parklock hold pin command to high
    P193A app output speed consistency too low

    Can any body help.
    Dont know whats the problem

    Car has 50 k miles on 2011.

    Majed
     
  2. vjd3

    vjd3 Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 3, 2005
    995
    Rhode Island
    Full Name:
    Vic
    The earlier DCT transmissions can have problems with the speed sensor inside the gearbox. Not sure if those error codes relate to that or not, others may be more knowledgeable. Hope you can get it sorted.
     
  3. MDEL

    MDEL Formula 3
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    Feb 24, 2016
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    Mario
    Normally the transmission DCT issues have to do with internal sensor(s) not working properly. The gear-box main shaft speed sensor failure is one of the common faults on the Cali DCT's from the generation up to 2012 and I had that problem on a 2010 Cali I owned and the "Operation not admissible" sign use to shown. Normally the only solution is the removal of the DCT which afterwards will have to be open and the faulty sensor removed and substituted by a new one. Unfortunately the correct diagnose of this type of fault and the necessary repair can only be done at an authorized Ferrari dealer and unless you have an extended warranty the cost
    of the repair can be high.
     
  4. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Rookie

    Sep 18, 2007
    3,830
    Malibu, CA
    Not all dealers have mechanics who are qualified to open the box.
    Most dealers have a level or stage 1 certification which allows them to swap a defective box with a new one.

    Higher stages require advanced training overseen by FNA following Ferrari SpA guidelines.

    Sensors and other electrical faults probably comprise the majority of these spontaneous failures, I hope that in the future Getrag will re design these problem components and thereby improve the reliability of the box. The mechanical gearing I believe is very well designed and robust.

    And the clutch packs, so long as over heating issues are managed, should last way over 100k miles. Since my Mercedes transmission lasted over 200k miles, I would like to believe so could the Ferrari DCT.
     
  5. vjd3

    vjd3 Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 3, 2005
    995
    Rhode Island
    Full Name:
    Vic
    I was speaking to someone knowledgeable about these boxes and was told that the problem in the early ones is often traced to a plastic zip tie keeping wiring out of the way that was not suitable for the heat in the box where it was placed. It would become brittle after being exposed to the heat for a while and would eventually abrade the wiring until it would short and cause the sensor errors. It was fixed in later gearboxes by repositioning and using a different zip tie.
     
  6. SAFE4NOW

    SAFE4NOW F1 Rookie
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    #6 SAFE4NOW, Jul 17, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

    Majed ,

    From the limited information your provided, it does appear to be speed sensor related.
    Can the Ferrari shop you went to not diagnose it farther? Do you have a New Power Warranty policy on the car now? This would be a covered component failure...

    LMK if I may help sir,

    Steve


    Ah, the zip tie failure... like these ?




    BTW , " most " Dealerships are now required to have at least 1 technician fully trained in DCT rebuilds... meaning Level IV , level I was 3 years ago < wink >
    Of the 8 techs in our shop, I have 6 trained in level IV DCT rebuilds and have invested in the special tool " kits " required to perform the repairs.
    Zip Tie 1.jpg
    Zip Tie 2.jpg
     
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  8. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Rookie

    Sep 18, 2007
    3,830
    Malibu, CA
    #7 MalibuGuy, Jul 17, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
    Thank you for the expert information and the terrific pictures!

    I have a question about what the different training levels cover

    I thought Level 3 was the highest training which is currently offered. I heard that level 3 covers servicing work on the clutch pack.

    The ability to change sensors is that covered with level 2? Internal wiring harness work?

    What is level 4?
     
  9. Jmci00

    Jmci00 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 2, 2016
    6
    Steve, thanks for the insight on what is needed for a repair shop to open up the DCT. Just curious what a rough idea of the cost is now to open it up and replace the sensor vs the previous fix of replacing the whole DCT box.

    Thanks.
     
  10. Tides

    Tides Rookie

    Sep 5, 2015
    39


    My replacement main speed sensor cost $6500 on a 2010 Cali 12 months ago. - been good since - check out my postings on the issue - gl


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  11. ingegnere

    ingegnere Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 12, 2004
    1,190
    Montreal
    Apologies for going OT, but is the zip tie problem also an issue on BMWs with Getrag DCTs?
     
  12. SAFE4NOW

    SAFE4NOW F1 Rookie
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    #11 SAFE4NOW, Jul 18, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Simple answer to your question:

    Level I : Fluid leak repairs
    Level II : SAP / CCP repair ( seen in photos below )
    Level III : Speed sensor replacement
    Level IV : Differential repairs

    Hope this helps...

    S
    1.jpg
    2.jpg
     
  13. SAFE4NOW

    SAFE4NOW F1 Rookie
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    $6,500-$8,500 is what I have seen for straight repair costs for a speed sensor repair.

    SSP/CCP will be more.

    S
     
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  15. SAFE4NOW

    SAFE4NOW F1 Rookie
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    IMO,

    Its not the "zip tie " itself as much as its the wiring harness insulation material wearing through allowing the wiring to touch metal.. because of the positioning of a zip tie or the harness material breaking down.

    So, yes, it could cross over to each application ( BMW, MB, Etc )

    S
     
  16. Cml2116

    Cml2116 Rookie

    Nov 14, 2015
    22
    Tri state area
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Great info from the folks. I was told a CCP is north of $15K . I had a hiccup with a 2013 cali 30 over the past month and the car drove fine the issue was a gearbox light would pop up and then a Check engine light and it was low clutch pressure error and then solenoid short error. My dealer ran a diagnostic which is also a cleaning (Steve could provide more intel on this process) and then drove it extensively. Thankfully the issue has abated itself. To not risk anything I went and paid for the new power warranty after Ferrari approved me stating the original issue was resolved. I wish you luck in remedying this issue as it definitely takes the fun out of the experience.
     
  17. SAFE4NOW

    SAFE4NOW F1 Rookie
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    Chris is correct,

    The first level of Diagnosis as I understand it is pulling codes and running electronic systems check. Then depending on what faults are stored, a valve body cleaning may be part of the process. This involves getting fluid temps up, shifting through various gears in pre set patterns, and other processes that will send heated and pressurized fluid through all the channels, tubes, and valves within the DCT gearbox.

    I would compare this broadly and laughingly to the well known " Ferrari Tune Up " where one would drive said Ferrari at slow speed, high RPM's , to clean out the carbon...


    The purchase of the New Power Warranty is a safe bet IMO too!


    S
     

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