BMW to copy Ferrari's nose concept.

Wonder if McLaren will try it too....

 

Now, that was pretty mean-spirited. But, maybe after Max is gone to that dungeon in the sky?

 

I zhink he needs more of ze punishment....

 

If this keeps up the field will consist of: Ferrari, McLaren-Mercedes-Ferrari, BMW Ferrari, Toyota Ferrari, Red Bull Ferrari, Williams Ferrari etc etc

 

You forget to add Toro Rosso...

 

Maybe Ferrari will abandon their high nose since it was Tyrell that pioneered that concept?

Face it, any innovation that works is going to be copied. That is why Ferrari disguised a team member as a press photographer to get close-up photos of the competition in the pit lane. Every team copies the other when someone finds something that works.

 

Ted, technically the High Nose on the Tyrell belonged to Ferrari as it was designed by Dr. Havery Posthewaite (sp?) after he left Ferrari and went to Tyrell...

 

This almost defeats the purpose of having a research and development, all you need is some ninjas with cameras to take pictures of the other teams cars and put the improvements on yours. F1 should have a version of patenting, who ever creates it gets 1 year of use then it becomes available to everyone else.

 

Anyone have pictures of what this thing is? I remember McLaren having a slit in the nose back when Kimi and JPM raced there. '06 I think.

 

This is expected and rightfully so, especially considering the fact that neither Ferraris were really challenged by anyone at Spain. I expect the other teams to start copying the pit signal light device that Ferrari has been using in the last two races very soon too.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with it whatsoever. In fact I expect every other team on the grid to mock up the design and test it on their car in the wind tunnel. The only problem I see is when teams end up with internal devices from other cars that are never actually seen out on the track.

 

Interesting ...

When I say copying is good you disagree with me (Ferrari investigating nose hole leak), and now you are saying "this is expected and rightfully so" ... interesting. I guess we have a "personal thing" going ...

Best
Pete

 

Ninjas??? Out of all the "nouns" you could have chosen, you chose ninjas...now that's funny!

 

Now you just wait, Ferrari and McLaren will be Japan next week looking for top-grade ninjas for their espionage.

 

Pete,

You just assume that I do nothing all day and follow what's said here on F-Chat ? I didn't even see your reply to my post until now *L*. I was referring to the comparison between Stepney-Gate and this vented nose design in the last thread. IMO, copying another team's design via photos taken from the pitlane is very different than actually have another team's complete blueprint and having a senior member of their engineering team feeding you live information during the season. The first involves plenty of R&D as it is a concept that you copy, but in the 2nd case (Stepney-Gate), you STOLE the actual design and their R&D to make them your own. This is where our opinion differs, IMO, there is a limitation to what a team can do and should not do, McLaren clearly crossed way over the line last year.

 

I don't think there's such a big difference between the two things. Having the blueprint of something doesn't mean that thing can just be made, bolted onto another car and work successfully. A McLaren is not a Ferrari and something from one won't necessarily work on the other without a lot of development. IMO the important thing is the original concept and I see little difference between copying a concept from photographs or from drawings.

 

Well, that will make getting around pit lane quicker.
Image Unavailable, Please Login (Notice the side gill vents?)
(And Schumi is already out doing "testing" of alternatives. )

 

Actually, McLaren had been working on a similar braking concept to the Ferrari as far back as 2000. The Ferrari and McLaren braking systems also differ in their implementation, I believe one uses hydraulics and the other uses mechanical. What McLaren learned is that Ferrari pursued the concept and found a way to make it owrk, it encouraged McLaren to continue development on the concept. So how do you conclude that they stole the design?

My argument would be that they were able to divert respurces from other engineering solutions to the braking system to focus on that specific approach. It seems to me that the engineering is still original but that their espionage significantly reduced the development time and focused their resources. They still had to develop the design and make it work. There's a bit of a difference there, don't you think?

 

Again, our opinions differs here and since this topic has been beaten to death time and time again in the past year already, I see little reason to continue this debate here one more time. IMO, the two incidents are as similar and as different as in a comparison of performing an endoscopic knee surgery vs. complete knee replacement. They are both a surgical procedures to improve ROM of a knee and to aleviate pain, but the procedures differs greatly as the rehab/recovering time differs greatly as well. To me, having the complete 800+ pages of other team's dossier and having their race strategy feed to you live is extremly different than seeing a concept via photo, and then doing your own R&D to see if the very concept can be used on your car.

Again, our opinions differs here, that's all.

 

+1

Every team can take photos of other cars and try to develop similar solutions. Having a spy in another team is a completely different level.

 

But what people seem to forget , it was a Ferrari employee offering said info...

 

If your kid comes home and says to you, "Dad, I just bought a stolen car from my buddy. Want to go for a ride with me ?"

Which of the following will you do:
A) Whack him upside the head and ask what the heck was he thinking.
B) Grab your coat and say, "Good job, you make me so proud. I will drive."

 

I know what your trying to say, but it wasn't quite that simple as well you know it.

I'am not starting this of again, but it involved more folk than two people, If you are assuming RD was dad ,you would be correct in using your example but that we will never know, nice try.