Cost of Ownership of 400i Vs. GT4/Mondial

In general, how would one rank the cost of ownership between a 400i, GT4, and a non-T Mondial? I not really thinking in terms of expensive, near impossible to find body/trim components (such as fog light lenses, dash buttons, etc.). I'm really interested in how the cars compare in regards to regularly scheduled (and probable unexpected) maintenance.

My suspicion is that the 400i has a higher cost of ownership than a GT4 and Mondial due to the car's greater complexity, but I haven't been able to find any real evidence of my suspicion. (I'm already aware that a poor example of either of the three models can drain bank accounts faster than a red-headed mistress.)

Thanks for any input.

--Jeremy

 

condition of all 3 being equal - the V12's will usually cost more to run, as there's so much more of it. Anything can happen to any car at anytime, so being led by desire of a particular tipo is the best way to spend your time.

 

Obviously spark plugs and wires will require 50% more cost for the 400i. It also has twice as many distributor parts. There are two complete A/C units IIRC, so twice as much to care for there as well.

From what I've read without owning either, the early injected models required less work once properly set up than a carb car like the GT4.

The 400i has timing chains instead of belts, so less work than either V8 for that part of the engine.

 

I thought about this, but I've also seen reference where owners replace the timing chains on their 400s. (Why? Is there a maintenance schedule for this?)

 

Not so fast there. The GT4 has twin dizzys while the 400i has a single.

Nope, also not true. Some 400's have rear a/c but its not a complete system, rather a second evap and fan.

 

25K mi. replacement schedule.

 

Jeremy,

After reading your posts in the 308 section, and now here, I sense that you're trying to gather info to make a decision as to which car to purchase for your first Ferrari since all of these cars fall into a similar price category.
Now you didn't ask for this opinion, so take it for exactly what you paid for it.
I think you're approaching this all wrong and heading for possible disappointment. The 3 cars you're talking about aren't anywhere near being in the same class, nor do they serve the same purpose.

The 400 series represents the pinnacle of European GT cruisers. These are all grey market cars here in the US and bring a set of challenges to the table because of that. These are big powerful brutes who don't scream "look at me" rather offer a refined experience. These are the cars in which your wife puts on her slinky balck dress and nylons and you take her out for an expensive dinner and a show. Pack your weekend bag and hit the highway for the Poconos. This is not your "fire it up and rip around town" car.

The GT4 is a fire breathing, carb'd, vintage, go cart. As Hans says, "It has all the refinement of a T-rex; NONE." You'll feel every ripple in the pavement and with every twitch of your wrist she'll jump 10 feet to one side or the other. If you compare it to the 400... a 2 hour trip in a GT4 will kill you where in a 400 you'll be ready to walk 18. These are vintage automobiles now with a majority of them being almost 35 years old. It takes a commitment (my wife says needing to be committed) to keep a vintage car. Parts are often a hunting trip. This is your "rip around town" car.

The Mondi is a modern car when compared to the GT4. Injected and more stable. I think of them as being in between a 400 and a GT4 (others may not). I don't own one so I can't speak well about one.

Figure out what type of car you want and what you want the experience of driving it to be. Then go buy the car that fits the bill. Cost of ownership means nothing if you own a GT car and what you want is a car for the twisties.

If you are worried about repair costs then buy the best car you can find, period. Nobody will argue that. Let me say it again; BUY THE BEST CAR. The upfront cost will make some doubt the validity, but it'll cost 4 times as much to make an average car nice as it will to pay the buyer's premium between an average car and a nice car.

Just my 2 cents for what its worth.

 

Thanks for the input, Dave. You're right in that I'm gearing up for my first Ferrari purchase.

I've never even seen a 400i in person, and have not seriously considered buying one, although, I have to admit, I am intrigued at their price. I somewhat understand the relatively low GT4 and Mondial values (well, not so much the GT4), but it's hard for me to understand the low prices of the front-engined 12 cylinder Ferraris.

At this point, I am trying to decide between a GT4 and a Mondial Coupe. I am very drawn to the edginess, styling, and historic importance of the GT4, but I also like the idea of jumping into a Mondial for a long weekend drive through the Ozark mountains. It occurred to me that, if I am going to consider a Mondial, perhaps I should consider a 400i as well -- or even consider a 400 instead of a Mondial. On paper both cars appear to fill the same niche. That's why I asked the question about the cost of ownership -- if the cost of maintaining a 400i is 10 times that of a Mondial 3.2, then that would be important to know.

Thanks again.

--Jeremy

 

Here is what I would do. Figure out exactly what your budget is, then add $5 to $10K on top of that for the unexpected repair. Using that number, determine what Ferraris fall into your price category. From there slim it down to the ones that REALLY turn you on. Then narrow it down to the best example of each type that you can afford. If your budget allows you an excellent Mondial 3.2 verses a ok "T", cross the "t" off the list. Once you have narrowed it down to the two cars that you absolutely adore, and can truly afford, determine which is the best that fits your budget and buy her!

I went through the same exercise that you are going through right now. However, I was looking at a TR vs. 308 vs. Mondial. In the end, the Mondial was the car that fit the bill perfectly. Now I have a really well sorted out car that gives me endless joy.

just my .02.

 

Thanks for the input, Joe. That's exactly what I've done. I started out with my budget at X. Then I realized, after lots of research, that my budget should be lowered to Y leaving money left over for sorting. Doing this has yielded the following cars in my budget:

1. Rough 348.
2. Really, really rough (i.e., salvage title) 456.
3. Good 308.
4. Ok 328.
5. Good Mondial of any flavor.
6. Good GT4.
7. Good? 400.

Of those, I'm not really interested in a 308 or 328. Also not that interested in a salvage title 456. A rough 348 was my first choice, but I've seen too many receipts for $15k services.

My heart says GT4, but I think that I would have more opportunities to enjoy a Mondial. I just wish that they were prettier. I think the 400 looks great (from photos, at least), and I love the classic design (front engine 12 cylinders), but I just don't know enough about the car to make an intelligent decision.

 

Jeremy,

Take Dave's advice on this. I wish I had heard it when I bought my 330. Instead, I've had to restore most of the car to get it to where I want it.

I think Dave's description of the cars is pretty good. A 400 is physically not much bigger than a GT4 but it is significantly heavier, make a wonderful sound (much better than an V8), and very refined (think of a car that competes with an Audi R8). It is very cool but it is not a sportscar.

One other piece of advice, drive a few versions of each model you are considering. This will give you a direct sense of each car. Drive a few of each because the experience will differ significantly depending on condition (a shiny car with worn suspension and bad brakes will provide eye candy but a scary and unrepresentative ride).

Oh, if you decide not to spend time figuring out what you want, really want a GT4, this one looks nice: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ferrari-308-GT4-1979-Ferrari-308-GT4_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a3Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem300267747806QQitemZ300267747806

Regards,

Art S.



Regards,

Art S.

 

Beauty is of course subjective, but if you haven't seen a Mondial in person, you will be in for quite a treat. They are absolutely jaw dropping in real life. Let me give you a good example. Today I took my Mondial to a local auto parts store to buy some extra fuses and other misc things. I have never really taken her to any public place outside of Ferrari/exotic car gatherings so I really didn't know what to expect, but I also didn't want to go home and get the other car just to make a quick run to the store. So I parked in the lot where I could see her and went to get out. At that point, most of the employees, including the manager, came out, in fact they left the store in such a group I thought they were about to break out into song. Once outside, they chatted with me for about 1/2 hour, taking pictures of her, etc. Then some customers from the store started crowding around as well. All of the attention was actually a little uncomfortable, especially when people started asking me personal questions regarding my income, job, etc. Honestly, nothing like this has ever happened to me before and I didn't quite know what to make of it. The funniest part was listening to all the misinformation flying about. Apparently my mondial is a rare mixture of titanium and carbon fiber I let everyone sit in her, etc and to tell you the truth, it felt really good to be lucky enough to be able to have something that makes people happy.

I say all this to say, while not the prettiest of all Ferraris, it is a Ferrari...and there is definitely something magical about that. Nonetheless, if she does not appeal to you, don't buy her...you should never settle in life. If it is a GT4 you want, get a GT4. You may have fewer opportunities to enjoy her, but its quality not quantity of time. If you take her out 50% of the time, but you love every moment of it, you will be in a much better place. Trust me, I almost got a 993 under the same theory...boy am I glad I didn't.

 

I only have a few minutes but I would strongly advise against buying any rough Ferrari unless you (1.) are incredibly good at doing your own wrenching and (2.) have more money to put into the car than buying the best condition version available. Particularly for these "entry level" Ferraris, the price difference between a rough car and a concours version is usually far less than even a modest amount of repair work needed on the rough car. It's unfortunate, but true.

Just MHO

John

 

Jeremy
A week ago I started a new thread on the GT4/Mondial/? site asking for comparisons of the GT4 and Mondial. I got some surprises about the range of specification of the Mondial. The thread is now up to 3-4 pages; he is the link: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=218262
Ken

 

Ken, thanks for the thread link. I've been following it with interest.

I've had the opportunity to check out a few Mondials, and a GT4. I did notice that they are two completely different types of cars. In a perfect world one of each would do. I've never even seen a 400i in person (that I know of), so it's hard for me to compare the 12 cylinder against the Mondial (except virtually - which is why I asked the question about cost of ownership between the cars).

Oh, Joe, I do think the Mondials are good looking cars. I especially like the coupes in 3.2 trim. I would (and may soon) own one with pride.

Thanks again to everyone for their input.

--Jeremy

 

Here's another GT4 up for grabs at Mike's...
http://cannillomotorsports.com/inventory/rgt4/rgt4.htm

I dropped by to see this one a couple of weeks ago & looked very nice but hard to really tell because it was in his showroom garage (poor lighting, a lot of cars in one space). It would be best to make an appt. to view the car outside/test drive.

 

Thanks for the clarification. Do the 365 and carb'ed 400's have twin distributors, and Ferrari switched to a single with fuel injection?

I was also unaware that the timing chains need to be replaced every 25k miles. If you look at the maintenance chart it only recommends adjusting the tension every 12.5k miles.

 

Like Joe here, i have a Mondial in black. Metallic in my case. It really compliments the lines of the car best. That said i don't have a 400 for sale, but ill do my part to help in your decision making process. You can buy either for 32k or b/o!!
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A spectacular 308GT4 @

www.rpmvt.com

 

Dave M, I saw your cars on FerrariAds -- they both are beautiful and I could satisfy all my desires with one purchase!

 

Not to bash other colors, but Mondials look exceptional in black, partly because it blends nicely with the black moldings, etc. I would give serious consideration to Dave's car. Finding a real nice black mondial is extremely difficult...ask me how I know! Dave's car is in a very rare metallic black. It looks like a real showstopper.

 

+1
A black 3.2 coupe with a tan interior is the rare 'Holy Grail' specification of Mondials; I do not plan on selling mine.

 

my '79 400i has one distributor.
Olivier

 

Can someone list the items included in a "major" service for the V-8 cars, specifically a QV or 3.2 Mondial but this may cover all of the V-8's. And what is the recommended frequency for this service? The only item I have heard about for sure is the timing belt and tensioner.

 

valve adjustment, cam seals, distributor seals, waterpump, timing belts and tensioner bearings, filters, fluids...would be the minimum.
...but the reality is that it would be unlikely, if we're talking about 308/328 era cars, that other items would not require attention at the same time and they may include things such as fuel lines, vent hoses, coolant hoses, thermostat, rad cap, fuel cross over hoses, cv shaft boots, fuel filler neck hose, shift shaft seals/shifter boots. i would want all of these looked at and would also want my brakes, suspension and tire wear inspected.

all things being equal (in that the car is otherwise running well), i would want to check my valves and rebuild my w/pump every 10K miles/15K km's.
approximately double, or less, for maximum belt and bearing life, but i would do every time i checked my valves. the downside is too great not to.