I am visiting this forum for the first time. I am active on the 400/412 site. I am looking for my second Ferrari. I have a '84 400i which my wife and I take long weekend trips. My second F car would be more of a short trip runabout to replace my '69 Lotus Elan +2 with a Cosworth BDR (it's fast!). To me the 308 GT4 and Mondial are very similar in outward specifications, just about a decade difference in style and technology. I would like an insider's view to compare and contrast these two models and I hope this forum is as helpful as the 400 forum I visit daily. Please compare and contrast these models with respect to: - long term value - joy to drive - maintenance costs (I do most all my own work) - reliability - parts availability - interior - exterior - mechanical - anything else you would like to say I hope there are people in this forum that have owned both and they will be my best judges. Since there is virtually no similarity with my current F car, I do not have any bias and will take your comments seriously. Ken
I am only interested in a coupe not a cabriolet. This cuts down on the Mondial's available but has not affect on the GT4's. Ken
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198389&highlight=mondial+gt4 http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=213981&highlight=mondial+gt4 http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=213981&highlight=mondial+gt4 http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=201250&highlight=mondial+gt4 http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=189569&highlight=mondial+gt4
Hi Ken, I've driven both (and a manual 400 with carbs as well), and the three are vastly different. A GT4 is like an overgrown go-kart. The mondial is more like a cruiser on steroids. There is no comparing, really. If your primary aim is a fun throw-around car to replace the lotus, then get a GT4!!!! (Although I drive mine throughout Europe - 10K miles per year, so you really don't have to see it as a car for local trips only) My previous neighbour has both a GT4 and a mondial. His comments: the mondial is much more like a normal car. If I want to cruise with the family, I take the mondial. If I want to have some fun, then the GT4 cannot be beat. The mondial is much roomier than the GT4. The rear bench of the GT4 is for small kids only, really. As for your topics: - long term value hard to say. My feeling is that the GT4 is more pure, more classic and therefore more likely to rise in value than the mondial. But not by much, I suspect. - joy to drive See above. The GT4 is much more pure (with its carbs, flame-throwing exhaust and much lighter weight). Put 16" wheels on it along with QA-1 shocks and springs!!! It will make the car even (much) better. - maintenance costs (I do most all my own work) The GT4 has less electronics and is dead simple to maintain. I do most of my own work too. It's fun! The Mondial is likely to have a bit more room to work in. All in all, I'd call it a slight advantage for the GT4 (if you don't scare away from Webers that is). - reliability Less electronics on the GT4. More modern ignition on the Mondial. When properly sorted, both will take you anywhere. See my comments on touring Europe in mine. - parts availability The GT4 shares lots of parts with the 308 GTB/GTS. More aftermarket stuff for that one than for the mondial. OEM stuff is on par. - interior GT4, hands down. It's the last F to have the classic dashboard etc. - exterior Matter of taste. I prefer my GT4 - mechanical The same - anything else you would like to say whichever you chose, HAVE FUN!!! (and congratulations) Hans Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I've driven both and the GT4 wins for me. Hans hit it right on the head....much more raw and pure. I just drove my GT4 1250 miles last weekend (not to mention the couple hundred miles I did around Memphis) and no hiccups at all, in fact, it was a GREAT car to drive that distance! I would try to seek one out and drive it. There are big differences in the feel of both cars. Good luck in your search! Let us know how we can help. JIM Image Unavailable, Please Login
I've owned both. 79 GT4 14K mile car, near perfect, and currently an 89 Mondial t cabriolet, 18K miles. I think that I share the commentary from the above F-Chatters. I am thoroughly enjoying the Mondial t (and would recommend a t if you can get one. The extra HP and more modern technology is really nice IMO). It all depends what you want.... If you want a "vintage" look and feel -- the GT4 cannot be beat. Its never going to be viewed with the same appeal as the classic 308, although it is getting alot of increased respect and interest lately.... The Mondial t is a great car in its own right. I like the styling, performance and usability. For me, the addition of fuel injection (especially here at high altitude) eliminates a bit of the tinkering with the carbs that for some endears them to the GT4. For me, its been a welcome change to just 'turn the key and go' versus wait for the carb bowls to fill, and then deal with hot starting concerns at the higher elevations during the summer. If you are really interested in a GT4, I know of two really nice examples (each with the owner having done much work recently -- well over and above the asking prices). One is my old car which is now really perfect with the new owner additions since I sold it-- one of the nicest GT4's in the US, and another is a really nice driver+ (again, sorted, and ready to go). I have them shown on my website www.scuderiaautosport.com if you'd like to take a look. I can get you in touch with the owners....PM ME. John
I vote for the Dino, but I an biased. I've never driven a mondial but I do remember reading that the eletrics can be an issue, also is not the belt service like the 348(engine out)? that can be costly.So I would venture to say that maintainance would be higher in the Mondial. Hans did a great job explaining the differences, you also may consider refering to some buyers guides like the "Ferrari Life Buyers Portfolio" this particular one has writings from actual owners as well as the clinical aspects of the cars. Good Luck in your search, yopu will enjoy which ever one you choose, but get out there and DRIVE them both, that may seal the deal in your mind right away! Cheers!
From the Mondial point of view, the balance and useability make this one of the best small Grand Tourismo cars ever. I have had 75039 for 12 years, and it has been my daily driver for several of those. It was perfect for family trips with my small daughter around the twisty B roads and wide open autobahns of Germany, offering amazing balance in handling with long-trip comfort. It also is very owner DIY repair friendly, one of the last, and the fuel injection would give 20 mpg on trips. The interior space is cavernous and airy for such a small car, and with the 4 way adjustable steering column any drive can be very comfortable (not always so in other Ferraris, especially for larger folks). You've heard that the Mondial is "more of a car" -- I will confirm that in the fact that the defroster, heater, air conditioner and ventilation all work great and no apologies are needed - even here in Texas! Let's get to driving -- a Mondial is all about balance: using the longer wheelbase chassis can be precisely placed by using the engine, gearbox and suspension giving the driver immense fun to get it exactly right, and be forgiving if he doesn't. No, the Mondial is not a point and squirt power rocket requiring no skill; rather, it is a more grown up vehicle that allows one to enjoy the finest in a complete automotive package at more sane and safe velocities on public roads in the real world. In fact, Georg Karcher, former Car and Driver European correspondant, once said that for the real world, the Mondial (at that time the 3.2) was perhaps the best Ferrari of all, giving actually the best city to city driving experience. Engineering pros/cons: The Mondial was one of the first Ferraris to have whole body anti-rust treatment, and to use long life Nikasil cylinder bores that give hundreds of thousands of miles of use. This was a major selling point for me, having to fight body corrosion in previous sports cars. The Mondial's major Achilles Heel, the fusebox which could give weird electrical gremlins, has just this last year been fixed with an upgraded replacement available from several sources. I'm obviously biased, but the Mondial does everything so well in an elegant and understated package, it really has no competition for a mid engine small 2+2 Grand Tourismo coupe. The inherent engineering in the chassis, spacious interior cabin, and good power, especially in the later models, really make this the Ferrari small GT for the thinking family person. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Hans' description is spot on! I've got a fair amount of time in both now, and the two are quite different. The GT4 is more "minimal" and the way it handles, it is much more easy/fun to drive hard where the Mondial feels a bit heavier and a little slower to respond to inputs, more like a touring car. Both are great, but for short blasts around town on the weekend, the GT4 would be my pick. I also second the GT4 ease of maintanance.
+1. Never one to leave a mondial thread alone, I must say that I think the Mondial is one of the most fantastic GT cars I have ever driven. It carries out the mission statement perfectly, and I should know, I have put almost 2000 miles on her in 4 months, including NYC traffic, rallys, open highways at ludicrous speed, sunday drives and hot laps on country roads. I don't know how complex the GT4 is, but, the internet would have you think the Mondial shares components with the space shuttle. Honestly, I don't know what the hell some of these people are talking about. I think most of what is out there is from non-owners who feel the need to have an opinion. Simply put, there is just not much to this car. Even by the standards of the day, there are so few electrical systems to deal with. Furthermore, all the problems seem to center around the fusebox, which can be replaced or upgraded. That's not to say that some of the design features didn't take a hard left at crazy town, but I think that is the same for any Ferrari--ease of maintenance is not a strong point in any low volume production car, at least on the Mondial 3.2 you have the option of doing the major inside the car or dropping the rear subframe. FWIW, I had such a bias AGAINST italian cars from a reliability standpoint, given my past experience with Lancias, Fiats and Alfas, that I was full on expecting this car (and any Ferrari for that matter) to disintegrate within the first 1000 miles. Nothing could be further from the truth, I can't think of many 22 year old cars forced to sit in storage for long periods of time, that would be this reliable (KNOCKING ON a REDWOOD RIGHT NOW). I have never driven a GT4, but I spent a year searching for my dream car and drove or looked at everything under the sun. Although I could have spent much more, in the end I bought a Mondial. I plan on being buried in her. so that's my endorsement.
GT4 owner here, so obvious bias. I think most of the posts in this thread have covered it. Both cars are great. Regardless of which one you choose, you will have a winner. Dom
Ken, Whatever you decide let me know. I have of of each model your looking for and might be selling one. If it helps i cant decide which to sell really! Nothing else to contribute here that would not be repeating what these fine folks before me have allready said. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I would pretty much echo all that Hans has said and add the following: From a stylistic point of view, I think the GT4 shape better compliments the 400 and they would look terrific together in your garage! The Mondial is a better GT car, but if you already have a 400i then you're pretty well sorted on that front. As a replacement for the Lotus, the GT4 would be the car for me. Image Unavailable, Please Login
I had a Mondial 8 for 4 years. Unless your budget allows for no more than about $20,000, I would not recommend an 8 (slow off the line). Any other Mondial would be a nice choice, with a 3.2 version being sweet. I drove one, and it was almost a totally different car than my 8. On the other hand, I like what I hear of the GT4, and so think you would not go wrong with either. Good luck!
As a mondi QV owner for 9 years I have a slight bias! I you are looking for a raw 'go kart' like experience then the GT4 wins. The Mondi is a more modern machine with more creature comforts, handles like a dream and can be taken on long long runs without drama. With the fusebox drama sorted all should be good! As has been said before, whatever you choose, you win!
Excellent comparison photograph - in addition to the cool kid, you can see the subtle increase in headroom and space. Pininfarina did an amazing job stuffing so much cabin room in a small mid engine car. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
My friend, I glanced at the comments, and saw many true statements, especially relating to the elan of the gt4. However, I have to tell you that I think that my Mondial t is just about one the best cars ever built. Admittedly finding a t coupe is challenging, but they arise from time-to-time. The t is the easiest to work on car I have ever put a wrench to. You will need a lift to do your belt changes - if you can make the space, many very reasonably priced models are available. Plus, think of how that would make all your other service tasks easier! Power steering, adjustable dampening, dual fuel injection w/ simple yet effective trouble codes and limp home mode, clutch jobs take an hour or 3 - the t has so many advantages over all the previous v8 2 + 2s. Check the power to weight ratio of your 400 vs. a t - uh oh! You may only want 1 Ferrari after all. Best regards, Randy Lee Call anytime if you have questions - 510-710-3344.
you aare the only one who says the "t" is easy to work on, by virtue of needing a lift makes it a challenge, no everyone has a lift...
Lets look at the mission. He's replacing a Lotus, so I think for the mission the GT4 would be the ideal little fuss-pot to have. I drove both, almost bought a GT4 and wound up with a Mondial. I like the Mondial, and I can ge my wife and two teens in it. Can't do that with the GT4 anymore. If it were me, in the OPs position, I'd go for the GT4. It's more visceral and he already has the 400i for a long cruise mode. When I drive the Mondial, no one confuses it with anything else. sometimes, folks don't quite know what to make of the GT4. it is not really Ferrari-like, and to me, that could be a good thing.
I dunno, maybe I am the only one who works on his t. I always see this gab about the lift. I am telling you this is bull****. You will more than save the cost of the lift with your savings on the first major service. You can get lifts all day long for around $2k - what's the big ****ing deal? A major service has labor costs of more than that. PLUS, *AHEM*, NOW YOU HAVE A LIFT. Hello? You have a lift. Earth to home mechanic... You have a lift now. You may enjoy your work now. You may do jobs that you wanted to do, but always held off on because you would have to crawl around under the car. Knock, knock. Who's there? Happy home mechanic who has a lift at home in his garage, that's who. Am I starting to get past the iceberg here? Can we stop always kvetching about the god damned lift non-issue? Now that that nonsense is disposed of, let's take a look at all the stuff that is important, day in and day out, not just every 30,000 miles. Stuff like really easy to diagnose and repair fuel injection. That is a real biggy. Stuff like a very accessible clutch. Stuff like dual independent fuel injection that you will not see the tremendous value of until the first time you drive home on 4 cylinders. What other car can do that - lose a fuel pump or a f.i. computer and still drive home? Stuff like power steering with superb feel. Easy to drive in town and tremendous fun in the twistys. Oh and by the way, how about the fact that, once you do get the engine out of the car, you can easily repair and/or proactively replace all sorts of stuff that is a total PITA to do on the earlier cars. Stuff that is largely cheap parts and hours of tedious and difficult labor suddenly reduced to... Cheap parts. Think about it. Look, I love the GT4s. I think that they are one of the most beautiful cars ever built, hands down. But, I would no more trade my t for one than I would trade my t for an 8, the stepchild of the Mondial world. Sure, the 3.2s are great cars, but that CIS fuel injection can really be a bear if it malfunctions, plus I would really miss the power steering.