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"team orders"

Discussion in 'F1' started by Parkplace, Aug 6, 2010.

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  1. Parkplace

    Parkplace Formula Junior

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    Kevin Buckley
    #1 Parkplace, Aug 6, 2010
    New radio evidence might indicate that Ferrari will have a difficult task convincing the FIA that it did not deploy illegal team orders at Hockenheim.

    The famous Italian team will face the governing body's new disciplinary panel in Paris in September, after Felipe Massa moved over for his teammate Fernando Alonso during the German race.

    Until now, the only apparent evidence of the imposition of the team order was race engineer Rob Smedley's radio call to his Brazilian driver: "Fernando - is - faster - than - you -- can you confirm you understood that message".

    Smedley later apologised to Massa, telling the 29-year-old he was "very, very magnanimous".

    But new radio evidence would seem to reinforce suspicions that the "is faster than you" language was in fact a pre-arranged code that Massa understood as a direct order to pull over.

    F1's official website has published a video edit of the German race that depicts Smedley relay a conventional message to Massa about Spaniard Alonso's superior pace.

    "You need to pick up the pace, because Fernando is faster," the British engineer is heard to tell Massa.

    And another message to Massa during their genuine on-track battle was: "Pretty close here, he's (Alonso) gonna go (through) -- you're going to have to defend".

    It has also been suspected that Alonso requested the team order, after he said "this is ridiculous" whilst trying to conventionally overtake his teammate.

    And he is heard to say during the official video edit: "I am much faster than Felipe."

    His engineer Andrea Stella replied: "We got your message, we got your message."
     
  2. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

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    #2 RP, Aug 6, 2010
  3. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #3 Fast_ian, Aug 6, 2010
    Indeed - Nothing new here.

    We heard Rob tell him to get a move on a few laps ahead of the infamous "Fred is faster" message - If he could have increased the gap, he'd have been golden. He didn't, was told that Fred was quicker, and allowed his faster teammate by. [I figured he was in trouble when I heard Robs first call - I *really* wanted him to stretch that gap.....]

    No conspiracy, just simple common sense IMO. Sure, they made it too obvious, and got lambasted for it, but I still think they have a point - The rules are the rules, no matter how you try and hide - How would it have really been different had poor ol' Phil been told, eg, his brakes were toast or similar - It's still breaking the rule....

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  4. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #4 DGS, Aug 6, 2010
    The problem is that team orders are only against the rules if the stewards object.
    Or the FIA objects.
    Or somebody wants to make an issue out of it.

    I can't say I approve of the way Ferrari imposes team orders early in the season, but having a rule against team orders is stupid and unenforceable.

    The only thing Ferrari really has to worry about is Alonso pulling another of his infamous, "I saw it all --- from the sidelines" testimonies, like he did to McLaren and to Renault.

    Steppneygate, ... Crashgate, ... Ordersgate, anyone?
     
  5. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
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    #5 Mitch Alsup, Aug 6, 2010
    The only problem with the enforcement is the degree to which the penalty avoid doing harm to the team.

    For example: if the stewards had refused to allow Ferrari to run cars in the immediately subsequent race, or given both drivers a 15 spot penalty in the next race, removed points from both drivers in the last race--then Ferrari (and everyone else) would realize that this is a rule they are going to enforce.

    The piddly (in F1 terms) of $100K is about as much money as Ferrari would have spent on Lawyers fees to fight the charges.
     
  6. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    #6 of2worlds, Aug 6, 2010
    The poorly executed 'team orders' strategy is yet another example of the smothering ineptness that has engulfed the team under Stefano Dominicali. Division and screaming has not delivered anything positive for 'the team' that is a mere shadow of it's former self. Another season now is lost...
    CH
     
  7. patricko

    patricko Formula Junior

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    #7 patricko, Aug 6, 2010
    It is very enforceable if the team orders are handled stupidly...

    Alsonso would never do that now would he?:D
     
  8. Parkplace

    Parkplace Formula Junior

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    Kevin Buckley
    #8 Parkplace, Aug 6, 2010
  9. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #9 VIZSLA, Aug 6, 2010
    Oh Goody another team orders thread.
    Does anyone have anything new to add on the subject?
     
  10. patricko

    patricko Formula Junior

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    #10 patricko, Aug 6, 2010
    Nope :)
     
  11. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #11 VIZSLA, Aug 6, 2010
    ;)
    Shouldn't stop anyone then.
     
  12. patricko

    patricko Formula Junior

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    #12 patricko, Aug 6, 2010
    Only 33 days to go. How many more threads before then? I put the line at 5 :D
     
  13. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #13 VIZSLA, Aug 6, 2010
    If there are more than 5 I owe you a beer.
    If in any of them some one says something new you owe me one:)
     
  14. patricko

    patricko Formula Junior

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    #14 patricko, Aug 6, 2010
    Sounds like a plan but we may both lose :)
     
  15. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #15 VIZSLA, Aug 6, 2010
    You mean that neither gets a beer?
    I see the flaw now ;)
     
  16. patricko

    patricko Formula Junior

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    #16 patricko, Aug 6, 2010
    No I was thinking we both get one and I will be the one to add something new and you will start the sixth thread :D
     
  17. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #17 VIZSLA, Aug 6, 2010
    My job will be far easier.
     
  18. patricko

    patricko Formula Junior

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    #18 patricko, Aug 6, 2010
    Very true :D
     

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