360 F1 not starting ... another of these threads!

Hi

Yes I know there are a gazillion threads dedicated to 360's not starting - but having looked through them today I cant seem to match up the issues to my car.

This afternoon I tried starting her - she wouldn't start. I used her last about 5 days ago - no issues then.

Today:

Unlock car , normal fuel pump priming sound.
Turned key and whilst doing engine check etc. I get a solid beep with flashing 'N' in gear display and solid red gearbox indicator (bottom right of display).

Think oh no! and try to start - but only get a horrible noise for a split second at a time, no action. Lights on display (fuel level bars , gear display etc) flash and then nothing.

Try engaging 1st, F1 pump sound, then get flashing '1" , back to N still wont start.

So I disengaged the power - battery cut out - for 20 minutes try again - wait in key position II for 10 seconds to reboot as per instructional manual - same problem... did this a few times.

Starting to panic...here's what I've checked / confirmed

* Checked battery - showing 12.2 V with engine not running (of course it is not running).
* Try locking and arming alarm - then unlocking again, no success.
* The fuel pump primes when unlocking and opening the door so unlikely to be a fuel relay issue / burnt fuse.
* Immobilizer seems to turn off okay - to solid red light.

The main problem is the flashing "N" it seems.

Would it really help to disconnect battery overnight? what would this do that disconnecting for 20 minutes wouldn't accomplish? what happens if this occurs when you need to use the car. Luckily I checked car today and not on the morning of our track day next Saturday!

Any ideas would be appreciated!!

 

Would probably be able to get my mechanic to diagnose this telephonically but its Saturday evening here and want to use car tomorrow...

Also really want to try and avoid having to take her in this week and possibly miss the track day...

 

You may have enough battery voltage to activate the F1 and fuel pumps but not enough amperage to engage the starter motor. I would recommend removing the battery and having it load tested. Do not jump start the car as many electronics can be harmed.

 

Thanks - no I know I mustn't jump start...

Could I measure the amperage on a home volt / ammeter as I did the voltage?

Also could this trigger a flashing gear display before trying to start?

 

A multimeter will not indicate the voyage or amperage when under load which is why it's best to take it to an auto parts store that has that equipment.
Alan

 

12.2 Is most likely too low, a fully charged 12 Volt Battery will read in the 14.5 range
Put a new battery in and enjoy the ride!
(low cost easy fix I am hoping for you)
Steve L

 

Every one of these threads goes the same way. Some warning signs happen, they are ignored and we push ahead anyway. There is a problem, turn off power clearing error codes and making it difficult to diagnose the problem. The next step is to start swapping parts, no need to take it to someone who has the equipment to diagnose. Besides, if we did that the thread would be done and not ramble on for page after page.

I did a search and there are a number of threads about this problem. It appears that most of the time it is related to the F1 system and are things like system pressure, PIS, etc. You are not going to fix this yourself. If you want to make the track day you need to get your car into the shop ASAP. Besides, even if you clear the error you have a high risk that it will return at the track and ruin your day. My suggestion is go get it fixed by someone who knows these systems well.

 

Thanks guys - will check out the battery tomorrow.

So are these cars a lot more sensitive to battery fluctuations than "normal" cars?

 

Short answer is yes

 

Sounds like a bad battery or pump relay..

 

Yeah.. I'd probably throw a new battery in there. I'm replacing mine every 4 years or so in the fall regardless of cranking ability.

 

If you are looking for 14,5volt in a 12 volt battery you are going to be looking for a while. 14,5v is a high charging voltage.

A fully charged 12v battery would level around 12,6v - 12.7v. Each cell is 2,1v and there are 6 of them.

12v is a ''dead'' battery. 12,2v is very close to dead.

but what is more intersting is the voltage reading under load..... Here is where the amperage comes into play.

 

Any luck with a new battery ?

 

I agree with 993turbo, I was thinking "under charge" Voltage. I stand behind if the OP's voltage of 12.2 with no load is compromised and may be causing the issues.

 

Obvious question - did you check the level of the F1 fluid in the reservoir? Any obvious signs of a leak like a puddle on the floor?

Even with the engine off you should be able to cycle through all gears (at least with later TCUs), if you can't the problem is not that the battery doesn't have enough power to crank the engine...

 

Can u tell us exactly what noise u get (e.g. same as if you cut car off in neutral?) and what lights flash on the dash, is the noise in sync with the flashing dash lights, or out of sync?

 

Have someone apply the volt meter to the battery while you are cranking it. If it drops below 10v during the cranking it is indeed dead....as someone above posted, a dead battery can still show 12v with no load on it....

 

Someone posted an excerpt from the WSM back in 2005:

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/134711828-post4.html

It's in the workshop manual under the "Electronically Controlled Gearbox - Diagnosis - Engine Start-Up" section.

 

Sorry guys for only getting back to this thread now - have been busy with work..

It is fixed. Phew!

Removed the battery and took it in Monday - the battery shop tested it - said it was still fine - but just needed charging. I picked it up fully charged for the princely sum of $4 today, and have just finished re-installing it after work..

I also bought a C-Tek trickle charger to prevent such nonsense in the future. $90 well spent.

All back to normal now. The first time I turned her on - having left the key in II position for the requisite 10 seconds - she still showed the red gearbox warning light and flashing N but started. these warning lights went off after about 10 seconds.

I am so used to my 308 which has never needed a trickle charger or failed to start in 11 years (and she has used the same battery for the last 7 or 8 of these years); these symptoms didn't seem like a semi-flat battery to me...

Just a quick question on the C-tek - is there a suitable place to attach the permanent battery leads in the front luggage bay?

Thanks for all the help.

 

Noise was in sync with flashing N in gear indicator.
Red Gearbox symbol lit up in bottom right of dash.
When turning the key one strangled cough and then nothing - sounded like trying to start a manual with the car in gear.

 

These threads always get over-analysed, yet the above conclusion is usually the right one.

1.keep your battery charged.
2. 12.2volts is nowhere near enough to properly fire up a 360 F1.
3. Change your battery when it's ****ed.

 

It's not the "fuel pump" you hear when you open the driver's door, it's the F1 pump.

It's not priming the system, it's pressurizing the F1 actuator & accumulator.

The logic is for the shift mechanism to function prior to engine start. On start up it selects neutral since you should shut it off in gear & not rely on the parking brake to hold it.

Plus the 360 has fuel pumps, (plural, there are 2)