488 GTB (458 replacement)

Gotcha. Thanks. I need to be in a better system to hear...iPad and my headphones aren't letting me hear it.

 

Call me a purist mate...

 

It wasn't even a complaint, but if I had any issue with the 458, which I love, is that from the front it looks a little too thin, a little too vertical. It could be my imagination or just the details this time around, but it looks a little wider.

I never had the issue from the back, just front.

 

Just gotta get the right one. Underground Racing would be my choice for a turbo these days. They stand by their products and I've yet to hear of anyone destroying engines in any of their cars. They'll build the engine too if you want it.

In the end, if you need an engine rebuild after 50K miles on modded 458, I think you got your money's worth.

 

Got it ; )

 

Road & Track article: Why Ferrari engineers don't like turbos

 

Interesting article; thanks for posting.

I think the message is great overall. Turbos don't really save fuel, they just cheat a flawed test. Ferrari would not have gone turbo unless forced. BMW would not have gone turbo on their M motors either if they had not been forced to do so.

However, he sounds a bit foolish with his oversimplification of turbos. It is absolutely not true that a trade off must be made in turbo size anymore. With variable geometry turbos and twin scrolls, you can add power everywhere without choking the engine.

I'm waiting for the Chris Harris review. That will tell us where the throttle response is on this motor vs the NA 4.5 and 4.3.

 

Big turbos still suffer from lag. Even the P1 has some compared to a NA engine.

 

I don't believe you. The p1 has torque fill on-demand via programming from the electric power plant. I find it hard to believe that there is any appreciable lag.

Now as to big, static turbos...they simply aren't used on the latest gen cutting edge motors. They are going to involve twin scroll setups, variable geometry (can be whatever size it wants), sequential, etc.

 

Haven't driven the P1 myself but Harris and some other testers said that they could still sense some lag...

 

I need to rewatch his review; I don't recall that.

 

760nm at 3000 rpms,huge torque number,also Titanium turbine rotors twin scroll design

 

There is somewhat noticeable lag on the P1 compared to a high compression naturally aspirated engine. It's in the nature of forced induction engines that there is a spooling time.

Torque-fill on demand is a very handsome solution, but as the name says - "on demand". The turbo is not constantly running at the required pressure. The electric engine fills torque while the turbo spools, that's a interim solution, not proactively preventing turbo lag. You want to as-good-as eliminate lag? Look to rally cars and their Anti Lag System (which is the reason you always see the exhaust is red hot). The turbo is constantly spooled which means there is no delay for pressure to build. The negative effect of this is of course immense heat buildup and wear. I.e. not suitable for road cars.

Take a modern turbo engine put by it self and there may not be any noticeable lag. But place it next to an equally high performing naturally aspirated engine and you will notice the difference.

 

I thought when Jay Leno reviewed the car they used specific electric motors besides the ones that drive wheels to keep the turbos spinning so that is why there is suppose to be zero lag.

 

They use an electric motor to supplement the engine, just like the LaFerrari and the 918, but a bit of lag is still there.

 

Sure. But it's about an overall solution. In this case they didn't have to worry about lag because the e motor masks it.

Totally agree on anti lag. BMW uses anti lag on the new m3 and m4. I notice no appreciable response difference vs my v8 m3.

 

Just watched it again. He actually says that the throttle response of the p1 rivals the f12, so not sure where you got that from.

 

I believe throttle response is when you hit the gas how fast can the car react? Does the car reacting without its full power (lag) count as throttle response? The electric engine would hit first and than probably the turbo. Maybe that is why it can have a fast throttle but still lag?

 

My mistake, it was Bovingdon who said it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=269&v=IiyyO7vrdiI

@4:23

Other testers have noticed it also.

 

Cool; thanks for link.

 

So no road tests or more pics yet ?

 

He says it again at 4:38

 

My soul less Porsche Turbo S (2015) which sounds like a vacuum cleaner has NO turbo lag... and I have had previous versions which all had the lag...
Turbo technology has come a long way....
But Turbos have no soul so if Ferrari can do both it will be win win...

 

+1

 

you are right, the turbo S sounds like a tyson but it does have noticeable turbo lag.
if ferrari does not do better (i hope very much it will do better), i shall flip the 488 for a speciale.
when do we expect the first test of the 488?
peter