365GT4 2+2 Window Motor refresh

Good day All,

As I am (slowly) reassembling 18775 and so I am taking the time to test/rebuild/refresh a number of items along the way in order to minimize any problems later...

As I was replacing the door window rubbers, etc I decided to check my window motors, as they were not working when I got the car. Low and behold one motor was completely seized and the other seemed to drag. Adding to the issue was one of the switches was sticky. I opened up the switch and found signs of overheating and melted plastic... which explains why it was sticking. Most likely the switch's overheating was because of the motor. Rather than attempt to repair the switch (my last resort) I started to look for another. Thankfully I did fine one at Ferrari UK and was reasonably priced... I think around $50 or so. I now moved to the motor and like I said I found it seized. Removing the motor is not too difficult, but is a bit daunting because of the congested and elaborate window cable routing. I took a number of pictures just in case I forgot how the cable's routing. I am simply amazed that someone sat down and designed such an intricate symphony of cable movement all to raise and lower the door window... In fact there is somewhat of a cable self adjuster / tension take mechanism. I can certainly see a lot of work went into this design.

As to the motor... The motor is attached to the cable reel mechanism by two bolts with the armature connected to a brass/rubber coupling. The couple is seen in the pics and has an external worm gear to allow for an external crank to raise/lower the window in case of a motor failure (my car is missing its crank... and tools too ). The motor itself is encased in a plastic "condom" presumably to prevent moisture contact... and thus rust. Removal of this "condom" is simply done with a sharp knife, etc. After this one can simply take the motor apart to reveal the usual assortment of DC motor parts. The armature is held on either end with bushings surrounded around a felt material. The material is usually moistened with oil to provide lubrication. Over time the oil congealed and thus caused the bushing/armature arrangement to become stuck. Once cleaned and relubed all was fine. Examining the armature's commutator one can see a lot of oxidation/dirt/oil residue that would contribute to a loss of efficiency of the motor's electrics. Using 2000 grit sand paper I cleaned the commutator and then used my Exacto knife to clean the spaces between each commutator contact. I looked at the brushes and they were in great shape and look to have a lot of life in them. I reassembled the motor and it tested perfectly fine. Also, one will note the little black box mounted on the side of the motor... This is a temperature sensitive switch. The intent is if the motor gets too hot the contacts within the switch open preventing the motor's electrics from being permanently damaged. Mine were working fine and so it looks like my damaged switch was because of something else...

Below are some pictures I took of the assembly. Sadly, I forgot to take the finished pics. Like the original I plastic coated the motor just like it was originally done. There is a rattle can off the shelf product called "Plasti Dip" that replicates the original coating... and this is what I used. You can find it at the usual Auto Parts places (Canadian Tire carries it here in Canada).

Lastly... my window cables were perfect and had little wear. I simply cleaned and lubricated the cables, winding mechanism (cleaned out the old grease, etc), pulleys, etc. It took a few times to determine how many winds were needed in order to have it just right. In the end effectively the number of winds was the most one could wrap around the winder. To hold the cable in place on the winder I used a plastic zip tie and gingerly installed the whole mechanism. installing the cables around the pulleys was not too hard, but one had to be gentle. The lower mid pulley is spring loaded and this is the last one to do. To help with this there are a few threads on the Window cabling etc:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/365-gt4-2-2-400-412/520941-windows-cable-replacement.html

Theodore posted an excellent diagram of the cable routing that helped a lot:
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/365-gt4-2-2-400-412/325073-repair-electric-window-400-auto.html
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/144665578-post9.html

Thanks again to posters in the above threads!

The window is attached to the cable in two locations with a but and bolt combination with a formed washer. The cable is fed through the washer and thus is captively held. To adjust I manually controlled the window motor via a car battery and some small jumper wires. I positioned the cable such that the window would be about 2 inches below the fully closed position. I then positioned the window appropriately, ran the cable through the formed washer and gently tightened the nut/bolt. This was done for both nut/bolt locations. Double check the window position, as you do not want the window to be askew otherwise it could jam and could break. Also, double check the bottom of the door where the window stops. There should be two rubber bumpers present to allow a "cushion" for the window to rest on. One door of mine had them (although one was a bit damaged, but the other did not. Having the window braking directly against a steel plate would not be a good thing... I am so glad that I thoroughly examined this, as it would be a really bad day to break/crack the door glass, as removing it from the door was a near impossibility.... anyway... After manually controlling the window I watch the cable travel, etc and adjusted the window position on the cable appropriately. Although the whole process seems daunting and time consuming it actually was not. Patience and understanding of the mechanisms involved are very important. Overall it took me about 15-20 minutes to refresh the motor and about 20 minutes to reinstall the motor/cable and adjust the window position.

After testing the whole ensemble, I am impressed with the window up and down times. I found them to be on par with that of modern cars. I will post my up and down times shortly along with my analysis of why my window switch became damaged.

Cheers,

Sam
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Thanks Sam - Just the sort of information we need on here.

 

A much more substantial piece than that found in a 308/BB/Testarossa. The bean counters over-looked the 365/400 series cars.

 

Good day WDA,

You are most welcome!

Cheers,

Sam

 

Good day Paul,

Indeed... I saw some pics of the 308, etc window motors and I say a lot of plastic... wow... These 365 assemblies are all metal except for the inner worm gears within in the transfer case, which is a dense plastic. I should have taken some pics of these areas, but I was focused on getting the task done and so I did not think about it... until afterwards. My goal is to try and be more diligent and comprehensive with pics like yourself as I move along with my reassembly.

Cheers,

Sam

 

Good day All,

As I mentioned in my earlier post, the window rides along the side channels and comes to rest on two small rubber bumpers affixed to a metal plate within the door cavity. I have attached a picture of what a good bumper looks like. The passenger door had the two bumpers (one is perfect and the other is slightly damaged), but the driver's door's were missing. Having these bumpers is really important, as having direct contact of the window against the bottom plate would not be a good idea... Given that is the case, does anyone know where I can find these bumpers? The look fairly generic and have a rather generic function that I am hoping to find something close to use as a replacement. The bumpers dimensions are:

Diameter: 20mm (round bumper area)
Thickness: 12mm

Stem Diameter: 7.3mm (which would be a little smaller than the mounting hole size)
Stem Height: 7.7mm

I would estimate the rubber hardness to have a Durometer value between 50-60

Overall the above the dimensions are not critical and anything close would work. If I cannot find anything, I will simply create a mold of my good one and make some up. That being said, I thought I would ask you all if you know where to find these or if you found some replacements.

Thanks in advance!

Cheers,

Sam
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Thanks for the posts! I was missing the bumpers on the drivers side so I glued some rubber to each of the metal stops, I figured it was better than nothing. Let us know if you find the correct ones.

 

Good day AKJim,

Indeed, I was thinking of doing the same... but my mental condition would not let me do it. Hopefully I can find these... if not then I can either remake these in one of two ways:

1. Make a mold from my good one or
2. If I am really rushed I can make a simple mold

The first way is the best way to go, but takes time because of creating the mold from the original. The second way is much faster, as I can fab a quick mold pronto... but the result will not be identical to the original... However, since these are buried in the door panels who would really see and even notice the difference? I will certainly post up what I do. If I do remake these I will see if anyone else wants some and if so I can make some extras.

Cheers,

Sam

 

Excellent!