Any thoughts on this BBi on BaT????

I am looking to add a Boxer to the fleet, I just do not know if this is the right one. Given prices dropping, should one just wait or try and get a decent deal on this one? The miles do not bother me as I drive all my cars. Thanks for any feedaback........

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1984-ferrari-512-bbi/?utm_source=dailymail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2019-01-19

 

My first advice would be drive one if you have not already.

Personally, it would be hard to buy a boxer off BAT without speaking to the owner and getting PPI done. They are great cars, but can cost a small fortune to sort out. My gut is the bidding won't reach 200K and it won't sell.

Mileage is a tricky thing on older Ferraris; condition is much more important to me as it does not take much to disconnect the odo.

I love mine and drive it alot. They are just so much fun, but are also some work to drive. Get a good one and you wont regret it.

 

Good day Alex,

A number of the members on here have been trying to document these cars as they come up for sale, etc. In most cases you can find any previous threads on a particular car by searching on its 5 digit chassis number and/or is VIN. The BAT car is chassis 44393 and searching this number finds a thread i created last Summer:

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/1984-512bbi-auctioned-in-tacoma-wa.576188/#post-146108228

Cheers,

Sam

 

It kills me when I see a BB or BBi with some big price on it, and then you find out the guy hasn't even changed the oil in ten years!

 

My 2 cents

Please do not think I am saying anything negative about the car you are considering, I have no personal knowledge of this particular BBi. What I will say is the BBi is an extremely complicated car with the original version, the 365, designed in 1972 so its vintage, it is way more of a Daytone than a Testarossa. More complicated than a Daytona and more delicate and antiquated than a Testarossa. With that said I will default to the old saying, you get what you pay for.

dwhite is correct, its an expensive car to work on and parts are expensive as well, and some hard to locate. If you have the means I would highly recommend not buying a car below 300K, one well looked after with known history. The list of issues that these cars have if not maintained is large, and if you are a stickler for everything working and functioning fully then be prepared to spend money. That is why you see cars ranging/selling from 200k to 500k+, all depending on version/condition (and sometimes color).

Good luck with your search and please let us all know what you ultimately buy.

BTW they are just amazing cars, you will not be disappointed.

 

Well said and each one has different needs that can be financially devastating if you get a bad one. Im sitting here with a big grin on my face Scott because you understand firsthand and appreciate what it takes to make one right. The details can drive you crazy!

 

I'm in the market for a good one. Can you point me in the right direction?

 

The 84 I restored is at Legendary Motorcar up here in Ontario.

I know of a good carb'd one in the US that might have a pending deal though. Ill ask if its still available.

 

Marshall Goldman in Ohio has one

 

leaning towards a car'b car. Let me know please.

 

I have been thinking about putting mine on the market with ***************** in Atlanta. Adam, Wade and the gang at Merlin know the Boxer well. PM me.

 

BaT BBi sold for $190,000+$5,000 commission. Maybe things are coming back down to earth.

 

This car has been around for a bit. Here’s the auction report from last years Scottsdale auction:

Image Unavailable, Please Login

Lot # 34 1983 Ferrari 512 BBi Coupe, Body by Pininfarina; S/N ZFFJA09B000044393; Red, Black/Black, Red leather; Estimate $225,000 – $275,000; Unrestored original, 3+ condition; With Reserve; Not sold at Hammer bid of $200,000. – Centerlock alloy wheels, Michelin TRX tires, Alpine cassette stereo, power windows, air conditioning, Daytona-style seats. – Several chips on the nose and the paint is a little dulled overall. There is also paint coming off the window frames. There are a few small chips on the roof spoiler as well. The gauge faces are a little faded. Represented as a consistently maintained one-owner car, but the mileage is on the high side for one of these at 64,744 miles, and it is in driver condition by Ferrari standards. – This car hammered not sold at Russo and Steele Monterey last year at a $160,000 high bid. That was a lowball offer and refusing it is understandable, but the high bid was a lot more realistic to the car’s used condition. It made a quick trip to Ft. McDowell where a couple days later it was a no-sale at the Silver Arizona auction with a high bid of $195,000.

 

Market correct, I would say. I am impressed that the seller had a realistic reserve-- that was the biggest surprise, to me.

 

One thing the seller never verified, even though asked a couple of times, was whether the odometer was miles or kilometers. It indicated 64,xxx but as I understand most Federalized cars are still in KM even if speedo face says mph.

So it could have been just 39,000 miles.

I realize it seemed to have been driven and enjoyed, and it did look slightly dull on cosmetics, but service wise it seemed to be up to date.

 

Last belt service was 2013 so it would be due soon.

 

The car looks like a good car for someone who wants to drive a boxer, but it sure looks in need of many things.

I figured it would not reach 200k and would not sell. Depending on the engine and trans condition, it looked like a reasonable buy/sell.

If it were my car, I would yank engine, separate trans, replace every o-ring, do a newman diff, redo suspension, have the headers ceramic coated, get ac working well, get rid of the idiotic bumpers and of course get the 17 inch rims with great tire, not good tires. ;-). Then drive and enjoy the car.

Good luck to the new owner.

 

Not for great desirable cars. The only time the turds get strong money is when the market has a run up, they eventually roll back down to where they belong. I see spending $125K to make that a great car so your $200K boxer cost $325K and its still not perfect.

 

If the BaT car really needs $125,000 then I guess $190,000 was way too much. I'm guessing since the last belt service was 1500 miles ago, even though too many years have passed, and it seemed to have a lot of other things taken care of that the BaT car needs between $10,000 and $20,000 in mechanical work, and if you want you can spend between $10,000 and $30,000 on a cosmetic refresh. Not sure how you get to $125,000, and I have had a lot of cars restored as a VERY retail customer, by some of the best in the business, people who win at Pebble.

The BaT car will never be a trailer queen, but it could become a very nice car. And the market is definitely coming down from 2 to 3 years ago.

 

I said a great car and to me a great car is a very high standard. I rarely see a great car.

The problem is being able to stop. You say a cosmetic refresh for $10K, not if that includes paint. What about the DOT mods to the structure and doors? Bumpers have been hacked to fit the impact strips and plymouth volare side lights. $30K wont address DOT and paint let alone the hours and hours spent undoing other DOT mods. Going to reuse the door seals and keep the slow windows too after you put all the glass back in? What about the dead horse and grill, horns, red piping on the seats that is like a stick in the eye, dash needs recovering, bet the carpet is no better. Pull the heads and do the valves and lift the engine off the box because the last tech cut a corner and gooped silicone all over the gaskets and the water pump wasn't done right. Now do you decide to upgrade from a true 8.5:1 piston and run nice parts that wakes the car up? Probably. New exhaust manifolds because the current ones are acting as skid plates and then ceramic coat to look correct. Plate all hardware that came off - no small feat. Paint everything engine related which means take those intake manifolds apart and remove the throttle plates and shafts. Rebuild the fuel distributors and WUR's, should do the ignition distributor too and check it on a machine. replace all engine bay heat shields, paint tanks, wrong exhaust system that has capped off manifold outlets - thats not a good look because you see it from the rear looking at the car. The list goes on. That car has a lot of needs that will cost a ton to do right. A boxer is a very time consuming car to bring to a high level and the injected car being the most costly due to complexity.

 

Exactly and collectors are getting more and more discerning

 

the BB and BBi are for mainly driving and not collecting

I enjoy my BB much more than my competition

 

It’s because it’s a drivers car that it is collectible. No one said collecting doesn’t involve driving. In fact the most collectible cars are often the best driving cars.

 

As mentioned above I have seen cars sell from 200k to 500k+ (with the 500k+ sold last year), this is not an overall indication of the market going down but the marked being more selective. When a car that has not historically been collectible in the past now becomes collectible you will see a quick run up on all cars as people are trying to get in early (Testarossa, 308, BBi), without a snapshot of what is available as cars are slow to come to market you buy what you can get. Once the cars are out and people are looking to sell, now that they can command more money for their cars, the market can be navigated from good to bad, high price to low price.

Use real estate as a bench mark. you can see the same general house, same size, same architectural style, same street, but the house that has been remodeled will sell for more than the one that is not (the driver). IMHO condition, miles, coloration, variant will determine price.

As a reminder:

http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2018/the-midas-touch-l18323/lot.63.html?clickdate=2019-01-30T14%3A59%3A45Z&ranMID=42390&ranEAID=je6NUbpObpQ&ranSiteID=je6NUbpObpQ-vyzpCtKZEgyh18XJ03JLWg

 

Oh and again I will add, you can drop 50K on a BBi without even making a dent in the overall condition, 10K just for a factory exhaust, 12K on a belt service, and the list goes on!