812 Replacement Rumors

Do you think there will again be a GTS-like version, that is a « standard » production spider model instead of a limited edition?

 

At this moment i don't know, sorry.

 

Very old indeed. It's found all over ancient Egyptian structures.

 

By any chance, will the f167’s engine end up in the laferrari successor?

 

I think NEXT 812 will have a special version

 

It would be very surprising if it has not [emoji4]

 

Reveal just 6 years away...

With impending EU regulations will it be allowed to emit any sound at all I wonder.

 

2027？are you sure？

 

I am not certain, but here is what I thought:

@day355 indicates F167 reveal in late 2023 (that is +2 years)

Historically, if a V12 VS occurs it is revealed about 4 years after base car reveal

(the 812SF reveal 02-2017, 812VS reveal 05-2021 -- +4.25 years)

(the F12B reveal 02-2012, F12tdf reveal 10-2015 -- +3.75 years)

If the F167 is revealed (only a rumor for now), due to the myriad of EU regulations to "design around", I would expect +4 years, but, who knows, nothing is certain at all, however it does seem likely the F167VS reveal would be years after the base car.

 

Problem is that Italians are really not that good at technology…
I don’t know why we see all those touch buttons: virtually everyone complains about them


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As long as Ferrari sells less than 10k units within the EU, they are not mandated by the new EU laws in the same way as other manufactures. Not really seeing the Euro 7 norm being a part of this, and when asking about this at the factory two weeks ago, they said that Euro 7 was of no concern at this stage for the 812 replacement. Of course that can all be a big ball of B.S but I doubt it.

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Same old story. You have a bunch of designers trying to come up with something clever and cool looking. They forget that people have to actually use it. It's like developers for computer software. All sorts of grand and great ideas to something needs an update and to look different. In their mind it's cool and user friendly, but to the rest of the world it's just a big face palm slap thinking "why". For some designers good design does not have to be functional as long as it looks good and have their personal touch. That's the difference between a good designer and a great designer. A good designer did the infotainment system in the current G wagon(and I hate it) while a great designer did the infotainment system in the current top-of-the-line Audis. I'm sure somewhere there is a bunch of designers sitting and thinking that we just don't appreciate their genius vision for their haz-haptic disaster of an idea. Sure, works jn a Toyota where you have all the time in the world to do things and ESC settings and drive modes are not a thing. But they completely failed to realize how bad non-tactile controls work in a "busy" sports car. Why couldn't they find inspiration from other high end manufactures that has managed to combine modern looks, functionality and features, namely Koenigsegg, Zenvo and Pininfarina. I know Ferrari is not a hypercar manufacture, but they could still usd what these guys do as inspiration. It does not have to be the same design language, but they could learn a lot about how looks and functionality can coexist.

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Agreed!
That being said I love my new g wagon because it has buttons lol
I could care less about the infotainment as I always use car play. I just want buttons [emoji23]
Cadillac had this in their new models (touch) and I hated the car…plus after a few years our Escalade’s touch stuff stopped working or weren’t accurate to the touch. Bad bad bad!


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Yes, their SVM status (small volume manufacturer) does help them, but, one word "GPF"..., in 2 words "electric Ferrari', in 3 words "pole side impact"(i.e. the Euro 2022 standard implemented on the Daytona SP3, point is, regulations do apply to Ferrari as well, just not always in the same timeframe as the larger volume manufacturers)

Euro 7 has not yet been confirmed/voted upon, we do not fully know what it will be...yet

However, the "F167VS" will be years after the base F167, so "creeping regulations" will likely play a part in its design and engine.

 

Is the SP3 the replacement or special edition car

 

My dealer told me that Ferrari produces about 9,000 cars/year and about 1/3 goes to the US. I'd assume the remaining 2/3 are roughly split between Europe and Asia.

 

Yes. And the rule is not about cars produced, it's cars sold in the EU, so they are far below 10k cars.

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I was just thinking, if the SP3 was the 812SF replacement, they could sell 10,000+ of those (if each car was about half the actual price, about 900K); however, the Daytona SP3 is a special edition, limited production, not the 812SF replacement.

 

I think Leiters just gave away how Ferrari will continue to make the V12 forever...

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/ferrari-plots-more-icona-models-and-hints-future-v12

When Autocar asked him whether Icona is also a means of prolonging the existence of V12 power in an age of electrification, he said: “I think so. It’s a good opportunity, it’s matching 100% our customers’ requirements and it has a limited impact on the discussion of CO2 [because only 599 Daytona SP3s will be made].

Here is my idea...

If Ferrari produces fewer than 1000 V12s for Europe each year (and all other vehicles for Europe are electric-only), they can do this! But, will they?

https://ec.europa.eu/clima/eu-action/transport-emissions/road-transport-reducing-co2-emissions-vehicles/co2-emission-performance-standards-cars-and-vans_en

See this section from the link above:
Exemptions
Manufacturers responsible for fewer than 1 000 cars or fewer than 1 000 vans newly registered in the EU per year are exempted from meeting a specific emissions target, unless they voluntarily apply for a derogation target.


see that? If Ferrari builds fewer than 1000 V12s (and, otherwise, no other combustion engines, no hybrids, electric only), they are completely exempted from EU emissions regulations.

Will that happen?

Once the "electric Ferrari" occurs in 2025, if Ferrari only builds V12 combustion engines for Europe, and fewer than 1000 per year, they can continue...forever (at least with current regulations)

And, at present, Ferrari only builds about 2200 V12 engines each year for the entire world, so that should be do-able..(specifically: fewer than 1000 for Europe each year)

curious, could that be their 10-year plan?

wouldn't that be grand?!

thoughts?
@day355

 

Unfortunately, I think though that is with current regulations--I believe the new ones that are supposed to come out shortly (Euro 7?) are still being negotiated over, and are likely to be much more strict.

 

As of this hour, 167 is still NA.
With the Purosangue, it will be two V 12.
The Euro 7 standard risks making 167 the last of the Mohicans ( normal range ).
But what a car !!!

 

Can’t wait, any idea of the time line as to when we’ll see F167, the Purosangue is due next year (I’m guessing with one of the V12s in the F167) and Ferrari still has to build all the 812C/Apertas, so would the unveiling of F167 make sense in 2023?


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That’s a great analysis
So assuming you’re right and I would probably tend to agree with you, future V12 Ferrari will cost in excess of 2mm euros for cars limited to about 600 exemples, and according to Ferrari at that price point they won’t even be supercars… so the new “basic” non-supercar V12 will cost minimum 2mm euros and only available to collectors. That makes the likes of F40, 599GTO, TdF,, Speciale a bargain and definitely keepers let alone the fact they are more raw and pure than whatever is gonna come out in the future

 

I find it ironic that the EU is so dead set on emissions choke holds that they would happily trump along and decimate some of the greatest profit centers of their economies (ICE powered manufacturing).

 

New V12 generation ?