Cleaning Water Pump and Alternator Pulleys? | FerrariChat
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Cleaning Water Pump and Alternator Pulleys?

Discussion in '308/328' started by eurocarguy101, Jun 5, 2022.

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  1. eurocarguy101

    eurocarguy101 Karting
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    #1 eurocarguy101, Jun 5, 2022
    My alternator/water pump belt failed in a miserable way last night. I recharged the a/c with one of those refill kits, but it looks like the freon leaked out on the belt melting it some how. Does anyone have a solution for getting these melted belts off the pulleys aside from replacing the pulleys, like a solvent? It’s a 5/84 308 QV, so it’s a bit surprising to me that it’s one belt over the 2 belts with one for the water pump and a separate belt for the alternator. I was thinking about wire wheeling the pulleys to clean them up. Does anyone have a better solution? Also, would this be the 7M1000 belt for a replacement?
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  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #2 Steve Magnusson, Jun 5, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2022
    I wouldn't over-think this -- you should just be able to just pick/break off the solidified remnants (if it's formed a solid ring all the way around just break the ring). Are you sure that the WP and alt bearings are OK? More common for drag/friction in those to cause the belt to melt. Just give each a spin by hand to see if they are free to rotate easily or are unhealthy.
     
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  3. Basal Skull

    Basal Skull Formula Junior

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    #3 Basal Skull, Jun 5, 2022
    [emoji51] that looks interesting. Are you sure the water pump isn’t seized and turning freely?


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  4. eurocarguy101

    eurocarguy101 Karting
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    #4 eurocarguy101, Jun 5, 2022
    Yeah, both bearings are easily spun. I will inspect closer when I have the inner wheel fender off so I can get a better grab on them rather than reaching down from the top of the compartment.
     
  5. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula 3

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    #5 kcabpilot, Jun 6, 2022
    As an aside: I know most people consider it better to have two belts but at least with the single belt when it goes and your water pump stops spinning so does the alternator and you get an immediate red light on the instrument pod instead of waiting for the engine to overheat.
     
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  6. mike996

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    #6 mike996, Jun 6, 2022
    As previously mentioned, to generate that heat, it looks like either a bearing seized OR a belt was loose/slipping.

    Refrigerant leaking wouldn't directly harm a belt although a leak could result in refrigerant oil being deposited on a belt which could then cause the belt to slip which could then generate enough friction to melt it. With oil on the belt, it could slip/create heat without making the characteristic squealing noise.
     
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  7. eurocarguy101

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    #7 eurocarguy101, Jun 6, 2022
    Looking at it this way, this is now going to be my preferred system over the two belt system as I was thinking was better before. Thank you for this. However, I was working on my passenger side window most of the afternoon so I was initially thinking the battery light was on from running the window up and down trying to align the window on the rebuilt regulator, not from a slipping belt. Luckily, I was only 4-5 miles from the house when I was able to shut it off, so hopefully nothing else was damaged when it ran hot for just a couple minutes to get off the interstate.

    There was one very small squeak, but very nominal and it went away in two seconds. I think this is the correct answer as to what happened since the freon appeared to be actively dripping after a later inspection that night.
     
  8. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #8 Dr Tommy Cosgrove, Jun 6, 2022
    This problem with the single water pump and alternator belt was "relatively" common. Ferrari finally had enough and designed a two belt set up late in the 84 model year. They saw this issue back early on and issued a SB to dealers offering a two belt kit for problem cars.

    This is probably going to happen again to you. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. You just never know.

    Mine tore off four times between 97 and 04. I upgraded. Never happened since.
     
  9. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #9 Steve Magnusson, Jun 6, 2022
    FIFY ;) - the single belt design is fine for carbed 308 ;).
     
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  10. eurocarguy101

    eurocarguy101 Karting
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    #10 eurocarguy101, Jun 6, 2022
    Is there a kit? I haven't seen one yet, or is it just sourcing the parts? How do the tensioners mount?

    I ordered two belts because I assumed this will likely occur again.
     
  11. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #11 Steve Magnusson, Jun 6, 2022
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  12. eurocarguy101

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    #12 eurocarguy101, Jun 6, 2022
  13. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

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    #13 Dr Tommy Cosgrove, Jun 6, 2022
    There was a factory "kit" thru the dealer but that was back in the mid 80's. NLA. I had to find all the parts from salvaged cars. Took a while.
     
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  14. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #14 Dr Tommy Cosgrove, Jun 6, 2022
    Oops.

    Yep. Carbed cars were fine. The QV was the biggest problem child.
     
  15. Steve Magnusson

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    #15 Steve Magnusson, Jun 6, 2022
    Very true:

    308 carb = 55A alternator
    308i-2V = 65A alternator
    308QV = 80A alternator
     
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  16. POLO35

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    #16 POLO35, Jun 7, 2022
    Just thought I would chime on this. You probably overcharged the system and subsequently the belt was slipping, overheated the pulley and melted the belt.....ask me how I know! Use a stiff brass wire drill brush to clean pulleys. You can also apply a little propane heat to softener it up.
     
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  17. mike996

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    #17 mike996, Jun 10, 2022
    Yep! Same thing happened to me/my 328 when I took it to a "pro" shop for AC check/charge 10 years ago. They overcharged it - tech said, "I added some extra refrigerant to be sure it would cool well," which locked up the compressor. Their (lack of) competence is what forced me to drag myself kicking and screaming into learning about auto AC, buying the necessary gear, and doing all my own ac work!
     
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  18. eurocarguy101

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    #18 eurocarguy101, Jun 12, 2022
    Yup, I overcharged the system. Doh.

    The first pics above ended up making it look much worse to clean than it ended up being. I’m not sure if this ring was on the water pump pulley previously in attempt to stop belt squeal or slipping, or if the heat and melted bits made this ring (last pic). Once I got in there, it just pulled off and made life much easier than I anticipated. I used a wire brush to clean up the crank and alternator. The alternator pulley just had the old belt wrapped around it and it came off with a good tug. I wanted to paint the WP since whomever was in there before marred it all up, but I’ll do that when I do the water pump as part of preventative maintenance.

    I found this thread and it was invaluable as well for future reference. The pulley spreader tool was a great suggestion, but I had to shorten one of the small rod extensions by an inch to get it to work. I’m quickly learning you have to be a contortionist to get to some of these bolts!

    Thank you all for the help!

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  19. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #19 Steve Magnusson, Jun 12, 2022
    I'm not getting the "overcharged the AC" relationship? Overcharged the AC, and the WP belt melts?
     
  20. mike996

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    #20 mike996, Jun 12, 2022
    True - if the compressor locks up due to overcharge, the resulting friction would cause the ac belt to heat up/melt BUT it would have no effect on the separate water pump belt.
     
  21. eurocarguy101

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    #21 eurocarguy101, Jun 12, 2022
    The freon leaked out, dripping, onto the water pump belt causing excessive slipping and heat thus burning up the belt.There was a puddle of freon/oil from the compressor when it overcharged.
     

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