The end of Ferrari, as we know it

The comment has made that California would develop its own standards. I don't think it can do that.

 

If Ferrari keep going the hybrid way, it will be the death of Ferrari, young people will be used to none or very little maintenance from their EVs and a Ferrari does not need more complexity. With hybrids the Ferrari experience you talk about will mostly be large service bills and trips to and from the service center

But I'll give you that the 'experience' will be the factor that will keep Ferrari alive, but it will just not be an experience as you describe it, it will be a different experience and it will be attractive to many buyers that also have evolved. So maybe new Ferrari's in 10 years will not be cars that you want, but there are plenty of people that still want them and all is good.

 

So you don't believe in States Rights?

Okay. I disagree, but hey - do you.

 

Exactamundo...

To further distill. The OP's premise logically concludes that LaFerrari is garbage.

Foks that hold on to dogma; let that sink in.

I've heard many enthusiasts say it's too expensive, but I've not heard one person say it's a 'dead Ferrari.'

I also remind us all the 288GTO was also epxensive (which many cars can run circles around for 1/100th of the price today)

 

That is not an indicator that buyers want faster cars, its more of an indicator that some want the newest model. In many of these cases they revert back to an older version for the reasons I already gave. I passed on the SF90 because of its over complexity and weight and also not trusting that this 1st version of a high production hybrid would be pulled off without issues. As an example, I went for the 765LT instead. Its a bit slower in a straight line but that did not influence my decision. I guess what you are not getting is that speed at some point is unusable on the road or in very short bursts and if you are going to track it then get a race car or dedicated track car. 99% of the people than can afford and buy these cars cant drive them at the limit and likely never will test the performance. Bragging rights are for kids and YouTubers.

 

The tech will continue to develop and Ferrari knows that its customers want the total experience so they will hopefully be able to provide some sort of a solution. Yes, I do agree some will buy whatever they put out but I will not.

 

Meh….. Meh…..Meh, Meh, Meh…..Meh



Did I get all the above correct in my cliff notes? [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]


But seriously. As automotive enthusiast who like if not love Ferrari. We are going to keep buying and trading them. Some more than others. Finding new blood is the goal of most manufacturers. They don’t live in the past, but bask in its glory. I can’t imagine the Old Man and his company today?!?! We are a world with less manly men. The cars reflect that. But Ferrari wants all the alphabet. They need to keep piercing below that 1% and find new high marks.

I am a terrible judge of what Ferrari builds today. The 488 Pista was just to fast for the street. Not going to track anything cause been there done that. I like my classic yet slightly modern cars built after Enzo’s passing. Otherwise, will drive my wife’s BMW Hybrid, the Kia EV6, the Custom Duramax Suburban and my 355’s and 360. Anything faster than that is no fun on the street. I don’t want to end up as a YouTube crash scene. Most of what above is has become personal and political. I think it just devolves into that these days.

Not taking sides. I see lots of great internet dialogue. Have followed this thread because I like reading what people write. But in the end, we are not in the boardroom. We live in our little bubbles and we see what we love changing as the world around us never stands still. Cheers!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

More power to you, friend! I'm not here saying *you* need to buy an SF90 - heck, not even saying you have to like it! I love analog vintage Ferrari too!

Who am I to tell you that 765 is trash, just because it doesn't have a gated!?!

All the digital dashboards and traction control devices 'dilute' the authentic experience? That the 765 is a poseur car for folks that don't know how to drive?

I would sooner jump off a cliff into automotive Valhalla.
***

see what I did there?

 

About right. I'm a simple man that likes to make things clear as possible.

This thread comes down to one question.

Do you think the La Ferrari is garbage that killed Ferrari?

It's a simple yes or no question that gets to the very root of my point.

 

Seems you are missing my point.

Also, the nannies in these cars can be turned off but as I said 99% of the buyers wont exploit these cars nor should they as they likely dont have the ability or venue to safely do so. IMO adding more speed and having that as a selling point will be a failed approach.

 

I believe in the Constitution.

 

La Ferrari is a georgous car with serious battery issues. Also, people dont drive them, they sit like furniture so they are untested in the real world under normal use. They are mainly used to round out collections.

 

Lol what Ferraris do you own and drive Paul?

For posterity sake I actually just watched Chris Harris in a 2014 video for Evo Car of the Year video drive the Speciale, and go on to say that he doesn't know where Ferrari goes from here. Then watched the Carfection Pista video (2020 I think) where Henry Catchpole wonders why Ferrari made the Pista, as the Speciale was "enough" and "bloody close to perfect", no one thought the Speciale needed more power

That's not to say that I'm biased the buck stops with the Speciale, but those are just two instances where I feel like opinions are similar to mine. If someone goes around and says they don't need more car than a 355, or 430, etc I wouldn't be offended and understand because those cars deliver crazy fun driving experiences

Do we have tifosi and clients yearning for hybridization? That want 800+ hp, with a heavier more complicated car and less noise? I'd argue those are the poseur clients who use a Ferrari as a means to show off, "flex" if you will, without understanding the Tesla Plaid or Taycan will walk them either way for most "street" metrics (who is going VMAX or quarter mile on public roads), and that a 458, 355, F12, or even 308 might give them more fun for 99.9% of their driving

LaFerrari is probably a crazy driving experience, and I heard the battery is 200k to replace when it dies. If I could choose, I would have much rather gutted the hybrid system off the car and seen the LaFerrari exist just as a pure mid engined V12 like the F50, Enzo. Oh wait, Ferrari IS now doing that too! SP3, only for the very select few. Sure Ferrari's latest hypercar that now runs 3-4M+ delivers an emotive driving experience. But I wouldn't blame anyone for saying their 458 mid engine NA V8 is enough car and experience compared to a LaFerrari, or their 308, 355, 360 CS, what have you. I'd be more apt to do the comparison apples to apples and compare those cars to an SF90 or 296gtb. What is the more fun driving experience?

You're absolutely entitled to your opinion and it's fun to do the back and forth, we just don't see eye to eye on how in a minor way turbos, but especially hybridization has rendered the performance and power argument null to me and thrown the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to an emotive driving experience. Give me the slower car every time with more NVH, more noise, more exploitable power for the public road, as every car is so fast today. Dino (V6)->308->328->348->360->430->458 line all NA, where the power and Fiorano lap time speed mattered to show evolution. All broken by 488 gtb (forgetting the Italy only turbo 208 for a moment), which was still a fantastic car all things considered. Sounded great too. Now 488 to F8 (we lost noise with this change), and now F8 gone and with it the ICE ME V8 turbo. Now, you won't even be able to buy a mid engine V8 as a production car anymore unless you want hybrid or a Roma. We are at SF90 V8 hybrid 1000 HP, and 296 GTB V6 turbo hybrid 800+ HP. Smaller displacement, less noise, heavier car, more "HP" is the trend line, until we hit EV. I believe Ferrari is angling for most cars to be hybrid, correct me if I'm wrong. Hope this does not become the case with V12, or that the good engines become reserved for Icona

Where does the buck stop for me? I guess I'd say 458. I would be so happy to be able to buy a new Ferrari today with that engine in the back. Give me a 296, Roma, SF90 with that engine. I wouldn't need 1 more HP, 1 second less off 0-60, whatever the case may be. Just to get my spec, new warranty, 7 year maintenance, get the production photos, get all that excitement waiting for a car, see 30 miles on the odometer, the new car smell. I'd let Ferrari could continue to do the design evolution (I miss Pininfarina), fine I'll even take the stupid Haptic Touch buttons in a 296 or SF90, and I'll even take the whole SF90 design, I'd put up with that if I could get an exact 458 engine in the car rather than the hybrid stuff

Ferrari winning in races and F1 is important, but I would argue it's not so important that you need to neuter your cars for it because what Charles does with his F1 car on track is different than what I do with my Ferrari on the road. Becoming yet another manufacturer trying to make hybrids work for a sports car sense doesn't make Ferrari unique to me, or deliver a unique driving experience, that's why Porsche is standing out even as they turbo'd most of their 911s, they're *trying* to get their NA GT cars in the hands of as many customers as they can rather than make it some Icona at 1M+... You can get Cayman 4.0 GTS, GT3, GT3RS soon, Speedsters, GT4, Spyder, GT4RS all with flat 6 NA engines

I know where the sign up forms are for Corse Clienti, Challenge. Just the reality is I don't have the time or cash, and my driving enjoyment doesn't come from track. It comes from cruising the PCH, and the canyons... Not stopping at Rodeo Drive or Cars and Coffee to show off the latest toy, or flex with others, but just windows down engine screaming ocean breeze with a bit of music sprinkled in here and there

Again, I don't know about other brands but I'll guarantee you won't see Patek making a watch you need to charge, or a watch that will play Spotify or monitor your heart rate, even though the number of digital watches worn I'm sure has increased 10000% in the last 5 years. They will gladly stick to what they know and do best, they aren't going to follow the trend of what others are doing but march to the beat of their own drum. Ferrari should be fighting more to do the same, very thankfully they seem to be doing that on the V12 if the rumors are true. IMO that should even appeal to the "handbag" crowd for Ferrari. Show off your hand built loud NA engine, like your Patek movement. Put a 458's 4.5L 9k V8 in your 296, which let's say is slower than most cars in the lot, and rev that old dinosaur. Put that next to a 296 with a V6 turbo hybrid, and see who admires what!

 

Nobody has been a bigger detractor of EVs and Hybrids than I have and all 5 of my cars are ICE and have no plans to change - BUT I can attest that I drove a 296 week before last and it blew my mind - and I went in VERY unenthusiastic since the F8 did nothing for me (except that is is mind-boggingly beautiful) and I figured "well lopping off 2 cylinders and a hybrid will make the 296 even worse" - BOY WAS I WRONG - The 296 is IMHO the best mid-engine Ferrari I have driven since the 458 - and that includes an SF90 - While there is no way I would trade any of my cars for one, the 296 is the first new Ferrari in a long time that made me take a look at stock holdings, kidneys (do you really need two?), and anything else I could do without to obtain one If I had $350K laying around and the patience to wait I would buy one in a heartbeat.

Definitely renewed/supported my faith that there IS a future for Ferrari - even in the tree-hugging world

 

Sad but true - BUT there are some exceptions - If you are bored check any of the videos/articles of Sammy Hagar and his LaFerrari - One of the few owners who truly enjoys it and treats it like a car instead of museum piece

 

I was as sincere in my affirmation that I think you should do you. Like, no strike that Love what you want.

While the nannies can be turned off, I would never do that outside the track - just me. Also, torque/brake vectoring? Not to mention no switch turns on/off a manual stick. All moot, since if it wasn't obvious, I was insincere in my sarcastic criticism of the 765LT.

However, one can't have it both ways yeah?

My position is clear, there are pros/cons to every epoch/setup. After all, it's not I that takes the 'absolutist' position.

You may want to steer your ire - to those here that do.

 

Guess you never met Ben Sloss. Just because 1 - 2, heck I'll even say 'majority' use them as museum pieces - doesn't mean all.

Besides, I mentioned this already. Think 9.8 vs 9.7, hell - 'best' (whatever that means) matter to a person dropping a few million to not drive their cars?

 

There are two stereotypes of the Ferrari the underbelly - elitists and performance poseurs.

Who would have thunk both would so eagerly be rushed upon to claim?

It's cool - think the LaF is garbage that killed Ferrari? All good - this is just all fun banter anyways.

I stand corrected, only certain folks can have an opinion based on their wallet size, furthermore - electric should be shunted.

You win! Enjoy.

 

Bless you, an honest man with a genuine opinion based on personal experience.
Respect.

Don't let @sampelligrino hear, he might get angry with your conclusion. As to why? That's the more interesting phenomenon ain't it?



As for 'tree-hugging' - there it is again! (See below post) I'll just say the last thing on my mind were trees behind the wheel of a LaF.

Though it fascinates me to know there are folks that daydream about forests while driving these wonderful cars. Not saying you or they can't, just saying a plant is the last thing on my mind if I'm trying to hit an apex at some ridiculous speed.

 

Whaddaya know? Me too!

Guess you don't care for the 10th Amendment then?

Mods: Just you know, It was not I that keeps on bringing up P&R. If anything, I've been steadfast that folks knock it off.

Though I'm each time somebody brings up the environment - it proves my point, doesn't it?

 

Haha, I don't feel like you really countered my point that there is validity to the adage it's better to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow

Just for me, it's even more relevant now than ever before in light of the Capital Markets "trend" for hybridization with more power & faster Fiorano lap times which is neutering the driving experience *in my opinion* by making things too fast, too quiet. I liken it to sex, especially in 2nd and 3rd gear in the Speciale. I can wind it out, hear the screams, push things confidently and safely. I don't want that experience to be quiet and fast

But I must respect your opinion, it was fun banter! I hope to see some of the latest Ferrari's offerings in your garage as your support for the brand and company. I will do my part by paying my dealer to service my old, slow, loud relic

 

I agree 100% that its' more fun to drive a slow car fast (then vice versa) - that doesn't mean I think Ferrari should stagnate as if they've reached some magic HP/speed equilibrium.

There comes a point though where two gentlemen should respectfully agree to disagree. I think we've long passed that point.

I have a saying, it's better to clearly disagree, than force consensus.

You think Ferrari is dead because of electrification
I think its best days are ahead because of electrification.

Time will tell.

It's not cancer we're talking about - we're talking about toys for goodness sakes.

Be well.

 

Have some of your guys been writing and complaining to Brooks I'm not a fan of fake sounds, but some people are also vaping

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/--ezgU8Nro0

 

Ferrari's have had 'sound generators' for years now.

 

I pointed this out in the thread previously, that every high demand day that our electrical grid survives is prime news:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/texas-grid-survives-sweltering-day-but-heat-is-still-on-ercot/ar-AAZtbTX

So anyone thinking we can just roll out of the rack one day soon and plug in millions of new moving electric appliances is just damn insane....