Hello! After my car had been sitting for several months (yes, it took me that long to get to the front injectors on my QV Cabriolet) I started the car (runs very nicely with the new injectors!) and discovered that my clutch pedal went to the floor with no resistance. The reservoir is full, and there are no leaks on the floor of the garage or on the carpet below the pedals, so an internal seal is shot, I think, either in the master or the slave. It sounds like the slave seals fail fairly regularly, so now it's time to go through the clutch hydraulics. I have seen several threads on potential cross-references to Alfas or Lancias for slave or master cylinders, but it sounds like the piston on the slave has a bigger diameter, so less foot pressure, but also less slave cylinder travel, so not an ideal solution? It is frustrating to pay 10x Alfa prices for a genuine Ferrari part that looks the same and undoubtedly came out of the same factory! But it appears that only Ferrari used the master and slave cylinders with these precise dimensions? So my options are to pay exorbitant prices for genuine Ferrari parts, or else get seals and rebuild the hydraulics myself? Guido sells/sold replacement seals, but maybe they aren't quite the same as the originals, according to some threads? This outfit in Belgium sells the seals and the hose: https://redbaycars.com/webshop.html#!/products/rubber-seals-for-clutch-mondial 35 Euro for the rubber seals and 65 for the hose, so 100 total, plus shipping, to get me back on the road?
When you have no leaks at all, even the slave seal does not leak (you have to lift the rubber protection to verify) then it can be the donut seal inside the master. I change me slave seal every 2 years, even it is not leaking. The others every 5 years. Seals you can find in a brake repair shop = slave seal has number = B3031 master seal with lip = B2027 master donut seal = B1043 This donut seal has an other diameter then original, but it is doing its job, closing the 4 holes when there is pressure on the sistem.
I am a first class novice but I just went through the same scenario on my 1986 3.2. I bought the Alfa part and it was very cheap 1/10 the price). The internal diameter is larger and it did not work properly. In retrospect I was not sure if I had bled the system correctly or not. Anyway when it didn’t work, I assumed it was the part and I got a new part from AW imports in New Jersey. I found them to be very helpful. Ultimately, after much trial and tribulation I got the slave cylinder in there. It took a very long time the first time and then I had to keep redoing it (5 times) and got very quick at it so there are a few steps which I would be happy to talk with you about that could really save you a ton of time. 301-801-0274. Ultimately I got the slave in there and I felt like it was connected properly etc. but the system still was not working. It would work if you depressed the clutch pedal a few times and it would build a pressure. I then assumed, I think correctly, that the master cylinder was the problem and I replaced that one also. Again I got the part from AW imports in New Jersey. The system is now working correctly. I also ended up replacing the clutch hose as that was leaking. That was another part that seemed way more expensive than it should’ve been. One of the key steps for me was bleeding the system properly. I got the power bleeder. If there’s any air in the line it doesn’t work. One of the key things on the master cylinder is that the bottom bolt is impossible to remove unless you have a thin socket wrench. I had to grind down a standard socket wrench attachment to gain access there but I literally worked on that boat all day before figuring out that the socket wrench was just too wide and I needed to grind it down. I posted the parts that I bought from AW imports below and I also posted the listings they have for the seals ( I might rebuild my original parts for fun). Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Below is a comparison between Alfa left and oem right slave. Again, I am not sure if the Alfa part would have worked if I had bled the system properly. The lesson I learned was that the time is the more “expensive” part of these repairs not the parts. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Thank you for this information....I opted to purchase the seals and the hose from a shop in Belgium and I'm planning to rebuild and reinstall (the parts should arrive any day). I'd heard about the bolt being impossible without a thin-wall socket, and I've also read that the cotter pin under the dash (connecting the pedal to the master cylinder piston) is a tricky one to remove and replace.
Good luck with the rebuild. I may ask you how that goes at some point. Regarding the pin under the dash, the hard part is getting the pin through the fork and the clutch arm, probably not the right word, that is under the dash. I think we Put the master cylinder through the firewall with the pin in place then lifted the pin with a thin instrument, slid the fork in between and the with some wiggling of the master cylinder the pin dropped. Cotter pin is easy, that just holds the other pin in place. I think we got it on the first try. That lower bolt was the hard part of this job. Good luck! Image Unavailable, Please Login
Depending on your luck getting the pin through can take a long time. Shortcut : You can line them up with a 8mm drill bit from below, lower it so the pin can drop (or be convinced with a hook tool from the other side).
I have installed the Alfa slave in my Mondial I had leaks in the original one every 3 yrs The Alfa part has been installed since 2013 Works perfectly Pedal force is reduced since the dia is bigger
This thread brought back memories on how the clutch hydraulics drove the previous owner and myself nuts. I replaced the slave twice and the master once. Not cheap as I used Ferrari parts. Pedal kept going down after a few months. Very hard to press. I then decided to replace BOTH master and slave with the Alpha Romeo parts. The diameters of the Alpha are different than the Ferrari ones, but the relationship between master and slave is about the same. Ferrari parts are in the $xxx each and the Alpha parts were in the $50 range. I just tried it. The Alpha master clutch cylinder has threads on it, I drilled them out. You need to reuse the attachment to the pedal from the Ferrari part. BTW, if anybody has an old one to sell, please PM me as mine is getting worn out. The banjo on the slave was not easy to install, kept leaking. Not sure why. Replaced several copper washers, different sizes until there were no leaks. I also replaced the old hose from the brake fluid reservoir to to master cylinder. It is a special braided hose, ordered online. Don't use a fuel line or radiator hose! After replacing that hose, the brake fluid in the reservoir remains clear. The Alpha clutch combo works wonders, like a brand new car. It's been 10 years and going strong. No more pumping the clutch before starting the engine. I suspect the clutch is softer now because both cylinders are slightly larger in the Alpha. Go figure. Cheers, Richard 1984 Ferrari Mondial QV Cab. White/burgundy interior.
Is the Slave replacement done under the dash? I am a novice but, can follow directions well. My clutch went to the floor last weekend when I started it. I shut her down and looked around thinking it was a cable/connection issue. Started back up and it worked. Today, went to take her out and pedal went to the floor. Have been reading up and think this is something I can do but, not sure where to start.
?? its very clear that novice part ! Clutch on mondial is hydrolic....master under the dash, slave on the left side of the engine....
Here you find several writings on that subject = https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/qv-clutch-slave-cylinder.357008 https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/mondial-slave-cylinder-seal.155507 https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/mondial-clutch-master-rubbers-only.187445
To keep this up-dated.... Seals can be find on internet https://ccparts.nl/product NO affiliaton ! Put the numbers in the search part "zoeken" and you find the right seal + price (exl.VAT). slave seal has number = B3031 master seal with lip = B2027 master donut seal = B1043 Slave seal also used on FERRARI 365 GT4 BB 00/1973-12/1976 – for clutch slave cylinder
Has anyone replaced the hydraulic line? I just noticed what appears to be a pretty inappropriate repair (looks like a compression fitting!) a few inches downstream of my master cylinder, and am thus inclined to replace the whole line next time I have the system open. Curious if it's one continuous tube from MC to flex hose, or if there are any junctions under the car somewhere.
85 Mondial - It was a single line with no breaks or couplings - I replaced the entire hard clutch line from the MC back to the engine compartment. I used the appropriate spec'd flex line from the MC to the clutch MC (from BelMetric) and had a stainless steel flex line made from the end point in the pic below to the clutch slave (the tubing on the top part of the pic is the clutch and the tubing in the lower part of the pic is the brake line). The hard clutch line is larger than the tubing used for the brake lines. Hope this helps Image Unavailable, Please Login
Thanks! Did you cut it to length and flare it yourself, or have someone make it for you? Do you remember the length? Is it routed through the left rocker panel?
Bought mine from Dino Parts. +- 350 euro Drop in simple. Everything fit first time. Be sure to replace the hose, I know that it is expensive, but you will want to do this. Good Luck and I hope you have access to a lift. Zeke Oregon USA
Joe - I made all new hard brake and clutch lines using copper nickel tubing from Bel-metric and bought all of the ends from Bel-metric as well. I have an Eastwood flaring tool that does a great job of creating the flares, double flares, etc. I don't know the length exactly (I made initial measurements from the old lines that I had removed and made a list of the needed ends also based on the old removed lines) -- and as noted above, the tubing size for the hard clutch line is larger than the hard tubing for brake lines. The lines do not run in the left rocker - they run down the center of the underbody which you can see in the pics above. Below is the order I made with Bel-metric when I was doing this - unfortunately, non of the links are live but you should be able to figure out your needs based on the old lines and the list below. Also, since the copper nickel tubing is always shipped as a coil, you will need a tubing "straightener" (buy or make) as you'll want to start the project with nice straight tubing and then replicate the needed bends based on the old stuff and your chassis and routing. If you were closer to NY, i'd give you the old lines as I still have them...Hope this helps Image Unavailable, Please Login
Heh, I always said that someday when I'm a real grown-up I'd buy a decent quality flaring tool and learn to make all my own brakes lines from that nice, super-flexible copper-nickel alloy stuff that comes in a coil... Of course if I had said tool and confidence in said skills, I'd just cut off the last ~6" at the master cylinder, flare the cut end, and replace the section of my otherwise-perfectly-good clutch line that some doofus PO spliced inappropriately with compression fittings. It looks like you bought three different pairs of 12 mm tube end fittings—I don't suppose you remember which one ended up being the right one, do you? Ah—so the clutch line goes outboard from the slave cyl, but then snakes back inboard to meet up with the brake line and run up the center tunnel? That sounds like enough of a routing pain that maybe I want to stick with piecing together prefabbed lengths of brake line from AutoZone if I could make it work with two or three off-the-shelf lengths. Are your old lines accessible enough that you could measure the length of the clutch line for me (no hurry)?
I will try to measure and send a pic of the old clutch hard line this weekend and might be able to sort out the answer on the 12mm tube end fittings when i look at the old line...with the eastwood tool, it would be difficult to "just cut off the last ~6" at the master cylinder, flare the cut end" - the tool is kind of large and is used in a vice...
