Sacralidge but...

These cars and one other were already discussed and removed from the site under the "replidoodles" thread. It seems that the seller has so many names and identities that no one was sure who was talking to whom....

 

Stay away from any cars in Belgium is my advice...

 

Nonsense. These pop up all over the place, you just do your homework before you take the plunge. As long as people don't pass them off as the real thing (which in this case wasn't done) what's the problem? Yes, in some cases perfectly good 'lesser' cars were sacrificed to create something, but hey, perfectly ligit and respected operators buy 250 PF Coupe's in good condition for quite a sum and dismember them too. It is a logical consequence of the market.

I've seen the name Brocket come up in several threads now, and think that is uncalled for. That will forever remain a sore point in the F-car (and some others) history.

 

the GTO fake looks horribly wrong !

 

has the "replidoodles" - thread been deleted ? cant find it !

 

Yes!

http://www.scuderiamaranello.be/

Two addresses for this company found:
Rue Mathy 1
6060 Gilly (near Charleroi) and
AVENUE O. VAN GOIDTSNOVEN 97, FOREST (VORST) near Brussels.

 

Look like very rough hack jobs to me. Especially the GTO.

 

I wonder how much it costs to restore a replidoodle?

James in Denver

 

I live in Belgium and can assure you we have many really good vintage Ferrari's, but unfortunatly also a couple of replica's.

And please do not forget our legendary racing team "Ecurie Francorchamps" and its owner Jacques Swaters.

 

Always the same fake barchetta popping up again and again, was red, now yellow... for sale for years. Too many stories...

 

Sacralidge ?

 

Ermanno Federico Sacralidge co-drove the Aspin-engined GDF-Harcourt with Arthur Nolan - Lago di Garda, 1951.

DCN

 

I wasn't btrying to insult Belgians or Belgian Ferrari racing history.....but Belgium appears to be the place where most of the replicas, represented as real cars, are coming from (not just Ferraris)

 

other than the seller, i am not sure how belgium is a factor.

i have one of these cars and it is VERY well made. it won't fool the "average vintage" ferrari guy, but they look very nice in person. having said that, i clarify the "average vintage" part because i am constantly amazed at how many "ferrari" guys that have modern cars that know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about vintage cars. when i was at the factory a year ago, a guy that had two 599's (one for him and his wife that didn't know crap other than he flew in from modena by helicopter with his broker and had more $ than i could imagine) made the comment about how much faster and better the 599 was the "1956" 250 pf coupe they had on display. when i questioned the tour guide about the 250 pf coupe, i was "informed" that i wasn't that familar with the older cars and shouldn't ruin the tour of the other guests with my questions.

both the guide and the "owner" were "toured" with the new owners in mind, not anyone else. if someone can produce a 1956 pf coupe that looks like the one i saw, i will eat crow. otherwise, i guess i should jump in my replidoodle and drive around the block a couple of times. i don't try and fool anyone. the car is what it is, a blast to drive and a hell of lot of effort to explain to the "modern enthusiest"

 

something about this car and the other ferrari the seller has listed implies a scam or someone that doesent actually have the cars. the weak pictures that couldve been snagged from any webpage over the years and the fact that theres little information about the cars history.not just the technical stuff but even things that a person would want others to read if they really wanted to attract a buyer.

 

and if it didn't take a genuine Ferrari-chassis to built it

 

Wow, up to $150,000.00 with 6 hours to go. That's a lot of doodles, repli or otherwise

 

Agreed to a certain point.

Even today perfectly good cars are being butchered to create yet another TR, SWB or GTO replica. Bad practice, of course.
With my limited knowledge of the particulars of each of these chassis, it is my opinion that many people miss an important point, especially when trying to make a fake GTO: the chassis was vastly different from the normal production chassis, making the outcome easily identifyable as a fake. Maybe less so for a SWB, and I have no idea about a TR, but didn't the GTO use mainly square tubing?
If someone can come up with proper drawings for various chassis, I can make them here for competitive prices. Is there business in such a thing?

 

Of course there is a problem there, but there is a big difference between legal and illegal, ethical and unethical, smart and just plain stupid.

I didn't check any of the chassis used for the cars offered in/via Belgium, but in the thread it was implied that there would be a willing market 'recycling' illegal goods there. I can't prove that, and I know for a fact that there are a lot of legit and very beautiful Ferrari's there. What you quoted was serving the purpose of not putting people in bad daylight on the base of an assumption. By no means does it mean thatI I agree with the practice of chopping up cars when there is nothing wrong with them, but it is not illegal. In the view of most unethical, and if you ask me just plain stupid.

That is not to say that if I find a 250 GTE in a field tomorrow that is beyond restoration, I would certainly consider the possibility to build something from it.

What happened to Tom is just disgusting.

 

The world of recreations is a gray place and many of us in the US think it is similar to what takes place in our country, it's not. We all know about Cobra, Daytona or 550 recreations. What takes place there is the Vin numbers are cut off and the body's (if they have a body) are swapped with new frames and other bodies. Taking one car and turining it into two or three cars. Then they are sold off as barn finds or missing creations. This happens to a lot of race cars because they have been damaged and repaired many times over there life making it hard to document.

Recreations are not allowed in Italy, but when you look inside shops you see cars being built, so what is going on?

When you ship your car to Country X for a 2 year restoration why are there copies of your car floating around?

There are a few great stories in Sports Car market Magazine about a well known C or D type Jag that was found to be a fake.

Alfa Zagato's have to be checked carfully, so do Bizzarrini's lots of copies.


I don't have a problem with people that rebody a frame and state that it is a recreation, but there are a bunch of cars out there that are not what they are represented to be.

 

Agreement.

You are referring to a situation in the Jaguar world, where at a D-Type meeting in the USA a number of years ago, 2 D-Type Jaguars rocked up with the same chassis number. Both cars had important parts of the original, but of course only one the real chassisnumber. The owner of one bought the other one, restored the original car and made a recreation with the left overs, which was 'easy' because he started out with 2 identical vehicles.

Dig around a little in the Porsche race-car world for laughs.

The Italian authorities are trying to kerb the situation with some obscure legislation, which in theory is nice but there are also stories about it being counter-productive, as cars with authentic and historically important parts can be destroyed.

Yes, I have also seen pictures of Alfa TZ's and all kinds of other desirable machinery under construction. The genuine cars are being restored, and meanwhile one or more copies made. As long as with modern technology it is relatively easy to re-create parts to rewstore an original, this also opens up the way to the creation of clones. It is not that different from the art world.

So the old adage is your only weapon: buyer beware! If you are to plonk down an important sum of cash for a car, you need to do an important amount of homework to verify its' authenticity.