Is the 308 a poor mans Ferrari?

Lets see, I have a 1984 308GTSi which brand new cost about $70K. Using the CPI of 1.80 from that date means the car's cost in todays $$ would be about $126K. Not sure of the definition of "poor man" but I don't have too many neighbours paying 100K+ for a weekend car.

 

From the owner of an example of the "Vintage" section's poor man's Ferrari, the lowly 330 2+2 4 headlight GT, a couple of observations:

Yes, truly poor man and Ferrari owner hardly ever go together, even on the bottom end. By the time you've bought a decent 308, Mondial, or 330 2+2, including acquisition costs, and sorted it all out, you've got the driveoff price of a new BMW 325/330 coupe in it, usually all in cash, no financing available. But, speaking from the vintage V12 perspective, you've invested maybe 25% to 40% in your 2+2 of what it takes to own a comparable example of a much more desirable car nearer the bottom end of the overall vintage price spectrum, say a Daytona or 330 GTC. Speaking for myself, I'd rather keep the extra 100 grand. The differences in performance(real), and aesthetic qualities and snob or heirarchical appeal(in the eye of the beholder) aren't worth it. My 330 2+2 is an absolute gas to own and drive, and reliable and relatively low maintenance as well. The production car aspect makes parts relatively easy to find, outrageously priced to be sure but at least available if you dig.

I imagine my fellows in poor man's Ferraridom, the 308 and Mondial owners, can find similarities in their experiences.

 

The CPI has nothing to do with it, when it comes to a depreciating asset, versus a home..........ONLY demand!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is "demand" that has driven the price of the 308 down, just as it is "demand" that has made the price of a 250 GTO astronomical!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BOTH are reasons why the CPI will not work in this instance.

 

Personally, I don't give a rat's behind if on this or any other board a "newbie" doesn't search and starts up an already worked over topic again. A new viewpoint doesn't hurt. If you don't like it, don't read it.

Much more irritating are the regulars who promptly and pompously jump the newbies over such a small thing.

 

You are confusing "Poor man's CAR" with "Poor man's FERRARI."

Obviously, a 308 isn't a poor man's car. The bus is a poor man's car.

"Poor man's X" generally simply means the lowest priced model of a particular car line. Although it is generally only used when the lowest model is way below the rest of the line.

For example: The 914 was called the "Poor man's Porsche" because it had a VW engine and was way below the 911. The Boxster isn't really called the Poor man's Porsche because it's construction, and cost, aren't hugely different than the 911.

Now, is the 308 a "Poor man's Ferrari?"

I think, in a sense, yes. Maybe not so much when it was new (although arguably so), but these days, probably yes.

The cost is low, and in a different league than late model Ferraris. A 308 is now easily bought for the cost of a loaded Honda Accord.

A lot (I mean a LOT) of people who can afford a new Accord, but barely, are buying 308s. I've looked at a lot of these unfortunate cars over the years. The current owner, who stretched to buy the car for $25K, but then could never afford to get the belts changed, carbs synched, or any of the little things that go wrong fixed. So you have a car that is shiny on the outside, but mechanically a basket case. I am amazed at how many neglected, 308 dogs there are out there. From the many cars I've looked at to purchase, dogs are the rule, rather than the exception, these days.

I owned an '83 QV. The car was nice, but in many ways of mediocre quality. I work on my cars, disassemble, reassemble, fix what's necessary, remove engines, etc. The 308, while a nice car, was most definately built to a price. Compare the quality of materials, construction and detailing of a 308 with a mid '80s MB SL or Porsche 911, and you'll see what I mean. The 308 is not in the same league. No one would ever mistake a 308 for the "flagship" of the line.

I was never bothered by the label "poor man's Ferrari." I don't call it that, but it's not absurd to make that argument. I like the car - I may buy another one some day if the right car came along at the right time.

 

The 3x8s might have sold 20,000 examples but its rare that I see one here in Miami (maybe 3-5 times a year). I see a lot more 360's and 355's and I am sure thats because they are the latest models and have sold quite well also.

 

Magazines use that poor mans Ferrari crap to captivate our imagination when starting an article. They say " you can have a Ferrari for the same money your neighbor paid for his top of the line Camry". While it is true you can buy a descent 308 or Mondial for 25k this sort of purchase has nothing to do with Camrys. When one buys a 308 you still have to have a Camry to go to work and transport the family. The 308 for most is a toy that has nothing to do with daily transportation. Its really like comparing apples to meat. Just my 2 cents.

 

...or apples to oranges, or pears to bananas, or spinich to asparagus......or cheese to animal crackers, or Bud Light to Rolling Rock, or Kessler to Black Velvet, blondes to red heads, wait a minute....what were we talking about?

 

But the analysis works, even if the 308 is considered a toy.

At $25K, it compares to mid to late 80s 911, various Corvettes, and lots of other decidely less exotic machinery.

There are very few that can afford a $600K Enzo, $200K 360, or $150K 512.

There are many, many, many that can afford a $20-$25K 2 valve CIS 308 as a toy. That's why it has become known as the "Everyman's Ferrari" or "Poor Mans's Ferrari." Those aren't really negative terms to me. It just is what it is.

 

I have heard that it is the entry level Ferrari.

 

An entry level Ferrari is the one you can buy with the money that you have.
This can range from 20,000 to infinity.

 

The thing about this is that the 308 is only the poor man's Ferrari NOW. Look at the want ads from way back when that they sometimes publish in the car magazines for fun. What you will see is that in general Ferraris (like all cars) have a depreciation in value from the time they are new, until they hit an all-time low. At that point, they are "cheap" Ferraris, then they start to appreciate as they become older. The "cheap" Ferraris (308 series, Mondials, 400 series) are all around the same age and they are not new enough to be "current" or old enough to be "vintage" so they are "classic". The Classics are the best value, being in between the two extremes. But I assure you, in another 20 years, 308's will NOT be the poor man's Ferraris anymore. Look at 246 Dinos. They are going for $70K and up now. In the early 80's they were cheap as dirt. I imagine that in another 6-8 years when the soon-to-be released F420 is getting long in the tooth, you will find that 360's are in the price range of what 355's are now. 355's will be the price of 348's now. 348's will be the price of 328's now and 328's will be the "poor man's Ferrari", while 308 prices will be rising above the value of 328s. A few years later, the 348 will be the poor man's Ferrari, and a little longer after that the 355 will. It's a natural cycle. When a Ferrari is about 20-25 years old, it's at its cheapest. By the time 348's are the poor man's Ferrari (I'm guessing in the year 2010-2015), normal people like me won't be able to touch a 308. I'm glad I've got mine now!! And I can't wait for the 348's to become cheaper so I can get one of those too. Then a 355. Yes, I'm obsessed.

Funny, though, even with the 308 being the cheapest Ferrari, it is ironically still the most beautiful, and it's beauty is unaffected by its value.

Birdman

 

agreed, and well said. the 288 , the BBOXER, the 308. they are my favorite. cheap, or icon i love them. note for the future:
*IT IS GOING TO BE VERY VERY EXPENSIVE , AND DIFFICULT TO SERVICE ALL OF THESE COMPUTER CRAP CARS WHEN THEY GET OLD!!!!!!!!!!*
yea i have a lot to learn still about my poor ole beater carb 308. but i can work on it. i learn fast. ( think Aircraft) i forsee that " classic" " CARB" cars of some models will be the future icons. 1965 to 1970 mustangs, 1967 to 1972 camaros, some trans ams, some vettes, carb Porsches, Ferraris, and Lambos.
folks i know people in the business that work AT THE DEALERS that sell the new crap computer cars, and they hate them. try to play with a computer controlled 1993 or newer " whatever" you need bin files, a laptop, the self taught ability to do what, when, in a certain way, or the car wont run.
i dont car how fast billyjimbobs new whatever is. they cant work on it, they are making payments ( most likely) and i pay cash for and work on all my old crap. oh and by they way, these last few years the auto makers are making purposefully harder to tinker with the cars and the computers. rumor has it , that there has been a rash of newer model cars with digital odometers getting " REFLASHED" and the true miles changed, just like in the 70's and 80's when the shady types would roll back odometers. the computer stuff to work on the cars may get cheaper, but do you really think in 10 or 15 years Ferrari is going to support anyone trying to fix a 360 ect whatever. i doubt it. and with all the copyrighted programs with incription bieng used, we will see a big rise in demand in price for certain carb icon cars. think 1957 Belair Chevy ect. rant over. LONG LIVE CARBS!!!!!!!!!!

 

I thought the Corvette was a poor mans ferrari.

 

Well, the pattern is to start a thread with 1 or 2 lines designed to inflame or insult rather than actually ask a question or state an opinion, then sit back and watch. Notice that the author hasn't returned and never really said anything to begin with. Both were trade marks of our beloved but now banned Gary Green.

...although maybe he was asking if buying a rough 308 will make you a poor man before the car is right again???

 

Excellent post. When 'newbies' come to the site and post in this manner, they always catch my eye. Lets just say the other moderators and I will be watching those who do this very very closely.

 

if this gets to four pages i will hang myself

 

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I think there are other things to consider such as # of cars made. The fact there where 20,000 3x8s produced will make increasing value harder. Remember most of the 60's cars were produced in the hundreds but a lot of the less expensive cars (1960's) are 4 seaters which seem to command less interest. I think a cars beauty also has something to with it (look at the dino). The 3x8's are beautiful and very recognizeable as Ferrari which should help. I also think that models that are very loved such as the f355 will buck trends somewhat. Its amazing that any 355 is worth 30k + more than its equal 348.

 

I've been a lurker-then-member here for 2+ years, and don't remember Gary Green. When was he kicked off? I guess he could return using a new ISP subscription and completely new info, true or false...

 

I dont think because there were 20k Ferrari 3x8's would mean that prices wont increase over the course of the next 10 years... There were over 17,000 V8 powered Plymouth 'Cuda's produced in 1970 alone, aside from the other very exclusive collectable V8 powered Baracuda's that were built from 64 to 73 as a whole number, and yet look how high a price an original V8 powered 'Cuda will fetch today. That's plymouth too, so it's not like were talking about a super exclusive company like Ferrari. I figure with the 308's 30th anniversery comming up they'll begin to increase in price slowly but surely. Obviously I wouldnt expect increases in the 10s of thousands but I think there will be atleast alittle appritiation.

 

I've wanted a V8 Fcar since I was 12.
when I was 25 - I realized that I could get an "entry" level car -
with a Pininfarnia body, engine design influenced by all that is Ferrari and Italian, and a heritage so rich as to be intertwined with Ferrari's roots.
I bought an Alfa Romeo Spider.
While it is smaller, has half the cylinders and lacks in many other areas, it hasa the spirit of a true Italian Sports Car - this is the entry point I chose.
Many fcar owners I know started with an Alfa Spider.
In the next year, I am going to graduate to a Mondial 3.2 Cabriolet.
Twice the cylinders, twice the seats - with a Cavalino Rampante on the front.
"Poor Man's Ferrari" can mean two things, a car that represents the Ferrari dream at a reduced cost, or a Ferrari that can be obtained for "less" money.
While I have heard the 308 referred to this way - I believe that anyone who actually makes the investment in one, can be said to more "rich" than "poor" - refering to ones experience rather than his or her wallet.

It's not a question of which Ferrari is more "Ferrari" either, the 308 was actually produced under some sort of supervision by Enzo himself, unlike later cars.

 

maybe you should think of 308 as the working mans ferrari rather than the poor mans ferrari it is affordable to anyone with the skills to maintain it oneself especially the carb. models. i find my 308 very straightforward to work on, in some ways easier than my old 914 i had as a kid, and dont forget the sound! what a symphony! everyone shuold be so lucky, i get a thrill every time i wind it out, my wife swears i even giggle!

 

Two words...PRICE PARTS!!

 

I don't think the 3x8 is a poor man's car, but I think a bad one can MAKE you a poor man quickly.