Mid Engined V12 with Carbs

http://www.e-paranoids.com/f/fl/flat_12.html

Flat-12 Guide, Meaning , Facts, Information and Description
A flat-12 is an internal combustion engine in flat configuration, having 12 cylinders.
The flat-12 is larger than a V12 and has no advantage in terms of vibrations. Thus the design is rarely used on production cars.

Most of the flat-12 engines are not true piston-opposed engines (boxer) but rather 180° V engines. The real boxer has one crank pin per piston while in the 180° V engine two pistons share the same crank pin. With twelve cylinders both layouts are perfectly balanced.

It was used in Formula One and Endurance racing, the flat-engine concept had the advantage of a low center of gravity. When wing-cars requiring air-flow venturies came along in the late 1970s, the wide flat-layout obstructed the airflow and became obsolete.

In 1964-65, at the end of the 1.5 litre F1 era, Ferrari introduced a flat-12 on the Ferrari 1512, but a more classical V12 was chosen for the new 3 litre F1.

The Porsche 917 endurance racing car (introduced in 1968, for the Sport category) was powered by an air-cooled flat-12. This engine was a direct evolution of the Porsche flat-8 design.

The domination of the Porsche 917 over the V12-powered Ferrari 512 probably influenced Ferrari, for they returned to the flat-12 in 3 litre water-cooled form for its prototypes and Formula One cars.

The Ferrari flat-12 design was successful and influential especially on Italian manufacturers, Alfa-Romeo was also successful in endurance with a flat-12 while the Tecno Formula One flat-12 was a failure.

A 5 litre flat-12 was later introduced by Ferrari on some of its production models, including the Berlinetta Boxer and Testarossa.

 

Not correct -- all of the flat Ferrari 12 cylinder road car engines have 2 con rods (from opposing cylinders) on each crank throw. Here's a shot of the TR crankshaft -- note only 6 throws for 12 con rods:
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and that's why the BB, BBi, and TR are all flat V-12s, per definition.

"The real boxer has one crank pin per piston while in the 180° V engine two pistons share the same crank pin. With twelve cylinders both layouts are perfectly balanced."

Enzo could call a car ANYHTING he wanted to.

 

If you support flat V-12, then lash once...boxer, lash twice... <g>

 

Okay, I've got two cups of coffee in me now. Too bad the wife wants me to go to brunch.

Let the lashings go on without me.

 

P4's as Wayne pointed out did not have carbs. (0856, 0858, 0860) P 3/4 0846 when it became /4 didn't either. There were only 3 P4's , 2 of which- 0858 & 0860 are now 350 Can Am's (engine wise) and one P 3/4 0846. There are several 412 P's which do have carbs.

Brian is quite correct as well.

 

That is correct,the 365GT4/BB, BB512, BB512i and TR variants are all 180 degree V12s, not true "boxer" engines.

 

Right, let me stupidly wade back into the fray!

I bewlieve that the TR and BB essentially share the same engine configuration - therefore making the BB a boxer?!

Or am I missing something?

PS Appologies to all that I may have slagged off if I am wrong - I am always happy to fall on my sword if required
PPS Any of you more knowledgable guys want to help out on my 308 rust question / advice request - see seperate thread just below

 

What you're missing is that Ferrari and many other manufacturers have wrongly applied the term "boxer" to any flat engine layout. True "boxers" (as the term used to mean on the BMW R32 engine of 1923) are flat engines where opposing cylinders reach TDC simultaneously (which requires the inefficient 1 con rod per crank throw architecture you mentioned -- easy to accept on a 2-cyl engine or a small 4-cyl, but no so great for a 12-cyl, or even an 8-cyl, engine). However, IMO manufacturers have abused this technicality for so long that today the more common perception is "boxer = flat" (without the further simultaneous TDC restriction).

 

Are their engines a true "boxer" configuration? Or are they flat V-6s? How the Ferrari and Porsche engines differ might clarify the distinction in nomenclature.

KevFla

PS: FOC Ferraris at St Armand's Circle, Sarasota, FL next weekend!

 

What is that? Looks like a beautiful mix between the 250LM and the 246GT.

 

DEI, neither the BB nor TR are 'boxer" engines, they are 180 degree V12s. By the way, does anyone know if the Subura flat 4 engines are "boxer" engines or are they 180 degree V4s too?

 

What about the flat 4 in Alfasud's?