Undervalued Fiat X1/9s!

heh that's still on my to-do list. however after having recently had a play in a GT4, i'm left wondering if it'd just be better to buy a GT4 and be done with it or spend 2-3 times as much to put together a legitimate ferrari x1/9. hmm....

 

I don't know, I think GT4/308/328s are fun but a bit under powered and you can spend $10k-20+k fixing that problem. 240hp would be GREAT in an X, but 350+ is much better in the bigger heavier GT4/308/328....and 500+, although drivable, is probably still too much kick....note - never ever try first gear when it's wet, 3rd or 4th are really the best choices in town.....gotta keep the tach under about 2000 or so.....

 

yeah i reckon you could keep the weight of an X below 1000kg even with the 308 setup. put a fuel cell in the front, get rid of the spare, and you've got another 8-10 inches of engine bay closer to the middle to play with... so the engine layout will be better than in the GT4 itself.

i've always figgered 200hp/1000kg is good enough for a fun sports car, 250+ in an X with buckets of flat torque from the V8 (rather than the highly strung turbo 4bangers putting that out) and you've got a serious little fun machine. would have to be a ground up rebuild of the back-end, but i'm putting the ideas together in my head for a project i'd like to do a year or two from now.

not sure how much widening it would require... perhaps it would best go in longitudinally... oh well, at least you've got plenty of experience in that arena.

 

This thread could not be more relevant to me. There is a 1987 x1/9 for sale in my area. It has 87k miles, with a very small amount of rust. Anyone know anything specific about the 1987s? HP/TQ? Thanks in advance.

Trey

 

we measure X1/9's in Gerbilpower.

all X's had between 65 and 85hp, depending on year and where it is.

a non-US 1.3 (pre-80) had around 75hp, US had closer to 65hp.

80+ 1.5 carbed cars have 85hp outside the US, which seems to have 75hp.

from around 82 the cars got EFI, but also got cats.

despite the shape of the car never changing over 17 years of production, (apart from bumpers) there seem to be at least 20 factory variations/combinations of engine/gears/carbs/efi/cat etc...

anyhoo, the only chatboard you'll need for X's is Xweb, come check it out if you want great information and to talk to a bunch of men who love tiny italian sports cars. you'll find there's a lot of contacts in Texas too...

http://www.network54.com/Forum/12159

 

Thanks for the info. I love the little FIATs shape. I want it very badly.

 

np. Xweb has a for sale/wanted section, and you can be sure if there's a car on the market, we know about it.

 

Well I have to throw in my 2 pence worth, Having had a couple of these gems the only thing I did'nt like was the cronic rust and sometimes iffy electrics.
Having said that, they never let me down.
In the past I have seen 2 ltr Lancia twin cams, Alfa V6's and Uno turbo engines fitted.

I am doing the latter one right now one for my brothers wife !

Great little car, shame the build quaility was not up to the looks and handling !

 

Haven't been on in a while, but yes, I had one of these.
Its true, they do rust quite abit, underpowered, not very reliable,
but.....what a blast to drive.
Funny I found this thread, as Ive been thinking about picking up another, if I could find a clean one, which is a task unto itself.

Armand.

 

I know you're going to scratch this itch no matter what I say here, but...

Buy any other car. Morning dew will rust away whatever's left of it, and 87K miles is living on borrowed time. Unless you're getting this car basically for free, save your money.

Fiat stopped making them in 1982, because quality was horrendous. Mine was an '81, and it stranded me in traffic, rusted out under the windshield, went through 5 wheel bearings (yes, 5) in a year and so on.

Bertone marketed them here for a while with nicer interiors in the same basic car. Not sure about 1987. I'd guess by then they had power windows and other more expensive stuff that will break repeatedly.

Yeah they're cool looking cars, like baby Ferrari's. But if I were you I'd look for a California Porsche 914 instead. Not the ultimate Porsche, but both Porsche and VW built really solid cars in the '70s. Fiat built crap. (Zipping on Nomex suit here...)

Jon

 

Jon if you had an 81 there was over 180 improvements when Bertone took over production in 83. I had 3 "X's" A 74,79 and lastly an 83.
The 83 was actually reliable and also the only car to date i sold for a profit after putting on 40k miles on.
The 87 was i think the last year made. Its an old car still so be careful, however they drive great. I guess the problem is there are so many sports cars available cheap. Like a early 90's Miata is probably a better bet........

 

I always wanted a Lancia Scorpion. It's really close to an X19. I do currently have a Fiat, an 73 500 R.

 

To be honest I didn't know they were still around in '87, so maybe they did improve. It think it got more expensive, and they were really rare in Ohio (where I lived in the '80s) after Fiat pulled out. I know the post-Fiat cars looked gorgeous inside.

Miata is certainly a better bet, although if you like to drive something distinctive a really nice 914 is probably closer to an X1/9 in terms of its "what the hell was that?" and junior exotic quotient. I've always liked targa tops, so I'm biased.

But mid-engined, Veglia gauges, narrow little pedals, pop-up headlights ... if you were dreaming of a 308 it was pretty heady stuff! Especially pre-Fiero, pre-MR2 and all the other soul-less junk that came later. And I guess even the steady diet of replacement parts for my '81 wasn't that expensive. Annoying, yes. Next time I see a later one I'll check it out more closely.

Jon

 

not a later one... but this one looks about as good as you'll get: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4549333049&category=6218

not a fan of the colour, but it's condition is pristine, and it's had enough upgrades to make it a dam nice car.

junior exotic, nice!

 

just took a couple pics of the donk that'll be going back into mine soon...

original engine had 1290cc SOHC (1978 model)
bore/stroke (mm) = 86x55.5 (massive oversquare)
hp/torque = 75/72
0-60mph = 12.5
1/4 mile = 18.5

this engine is 1608 DOHC (from 1969 124BC)
bore/stroke (mm) = 80x80
hp/torque = 110/110

concatenated specs of rebuilt engine... balanced, lightened, (basically) blueprinted, compression bumped to ~10.5:1, dual IDF40's, "rally" cams, Kent Cams adjustable pulleys, custom lightweight button-type ceramic clutch, lightened flywheel, HPC coated extractors, stainless free-flow dual-tip exhaust, "red" konis, electronic (hall effect) dizzy conversion, remanufactured agressive advance curve, MSD 6A-L ign controller... ummm, other basic stuff.

not sure what final performance figgers will be... won't be a rocket-ship by modern car standards, but it'll be pretty dam good for a 35 year old engine in a 25 year old car. i'm guessing 110-120rwhp... maybe 16sec 1/4mile... my cartest software is telling me 14.7 seconds for the 1/4, dunno about that, but it's spot on with the standard car's specs...
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it's been brought to my attention some similarities between two X-vehicles... one the prototype for the X1/9, the Bertone Runabout... the other an intergalactic spacecraft from a galaxy far, far away....
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First off greetings Ash , you might remeber me from Xana.

I had to interject my story and ,while a little long winded, it does touch on many of the points brought up about X1/9s in this thread. Sorry for the novel but when talking cars , espically Italian ones, I tend to ramble...


I have been a X owner twice now,first was acutally my wife and her 1981 Red X1/9. It had been pretty well cared for till the previous owner got it and let it go downhill. We enjoyed the car (me more than her in the later days in which we owned it) till a man chased me down in traffic and offered me a large sum of money (well l large sum of money for a X at the time) for the car. Not being crazy I took it.

Now fast forward a few years. I was getting the itch again and I wanted a Bertone (1983-1988 or 1987 in the US) with the "boxer" paint scheme commonly seen on 512s and a few 308s (sorta like this one , http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4548143885&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1
almost a spitting image of my cars color scheme) . I found one in Atlanta still in the hands of the orginal owner. It needed help but had lived a pampered life and bore almost no rust anywhere on it. Handed him $500 and drove my car off with my wife following me in a borrowed SUV with a spare motor and tranny in it from another X.

The trip home to Memphis is what many of the people were probably thinking of when they say Xs are not road worthy for long distance. I barely made it home (lost a gear on the way) and had to drive with 2ed and 4th for a month till my mechanic could get the car in to his shop.Due to my low investment I had some "play cash" to get things up to par for lots of hard driving in the cars future.A Faza cam, totally redone exhaust, new transmission, redone motor, and MANY other goodies later the car is back on the road. With the warning of anything over 4000RPM for the first 1000 miles ringing in my ear I set out to find a long stretch of road to get some miles (the trucking slogan you see on trucks "Get Miles Get Home" was in my head for some reason also). Now I could have gone over the 4000RPM but knowing my mechanic had been working on British and Italian cars for 30+ years (and had worked on over 200+ X1/9s since they came to the US in 1974) I feared his "supernatural" bond with these cars might tune him into my misdeeds so I kept the car under 4000. This fear was reinforced when i was on a cruise with the local BMW club the next weekend. I was contemplating taking her to 4500 or so just to let the new exhaust ring a tune and what happens but my phone rings and its my mechanic asking how the car is doing....Strange!

Once the brake in was done what does one do but drive another 1000 miles, in under two days that is. The best place I have found to do this is Deals Gap (or tail of the dragon as the locals call it , 318 turns in 11 miles) in the East TN / NC area. I drove the car almost 1200 miles from 5pm Friday till 11pm Saturday that weekend. Many of those were 100MPH+ on the interestate. During that time I got 19-22MPG on the dragon (most shifts were between 5500-7300) and around 23MPG on the interstate. Car didnt miss a beat and this is just one example of these cars being , when matained properly , drive anywhere cars. Another story I heard was from a man who was selling a 84 Bertone X I almost bought who drove the car from California to Alabama without a single problem and got 30MPG to boot!

My wife and I have owned a few 911s, a 914, a 924S, a 944 TurboS, and a fleet of Fiats in our sports car past and the X1/9 has to be the funnest "around town" sports car I have ever driven. By "around town" I meant you dont have to do 100+ on city streets to get a smile on your face. A exmaple of this can be seen in how you can throw it around 90degree turns at some pretty crazy speeds and it keeps a similar composure like its more exotice brethren keep under the same circumstances. Its also very comfortable for its size and the wife enjoys it more than my 124 Spider on road trips. Its no supercar but for the $6000 I have in my car its a BLAST and its reasonable to maintain.

I will agree with the lack of power everyone is talking about but you can pep things up a bit with cams, exhaust (a MUST on the FI cars I think), and a few other goodies. Still 100HP vs 75 is better but still not alot. There are many things you can do to get in the 150-200 range but most require motor swaps which get into the world of debate on such topics as "Cost effective", "affect on weight balance", and other interesting things. I hope to , if all goes as planned , add a stable mate of a 328 next to my X early next year which should help fill my mid-engine power issues.

To those looking to get a X look long and hard for a good one you wont regret it if you do. Rust is the killer of these cars and while the Bertones had a somewhat improved rust protection its not near enough. Look for rust in the shock towers on the front and rear of the car. If you see bubbles here in large amounts you have a problem car. The steel is triple reinforced in the rear and is VERY expensive / hard to replace the front isnt any easier. The transmissions are another weak link, the 86s had improved gearboxes so your 87 should be as good as you can get from the factory.



If you want to see some X images check out:

http://gallery.italiancarclub.com/x19

A recent cruise with a few Ferraris and my X1/9:

http://gallery.italiancarclub.com/album191/Untitled_1

My car can be seen at :

http://gallery.italiancarclub.com/album137

 

gday Chris! i've been dreaming of a 308 GT4 as my first cavallino stablemate. was a little concerned as to how good they are, but any fears were allayed yesterday when i got some decent time in the passenger seat of one doing some moderately angry miles through the legendary Adelaide hills. and it's not like i was comparing it to a honda civic... i'd just stepped out of a Lamborghini Gallardo, and was afterwards lucky enough to have the crap scared outta me in an Elise.

for more of that story, check here in the Oz section. also contains Porsche content... a black and a white GT3.

 

and do u think drive.com.au and carsales.com.au and carpoint.com.au have been getting a beating since yesterday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I am with you on this one buddy. Its an like an X19 with some balls, pedigree and heritage! Bring on the 037

 

I've had an X1/9 and have currently got a 208 GT4. The X1/9 was 80% of the car that the 208 is, but for 20% of the money. They both have similar strengths and weaknesses. But for me the sound of the V8 is worth the extra.

 

I had this car for way over 150K miles..

I had the car turbocharged with forged pistons..nimonic valves..alcohol water injection and it was great!

Koni's and BWA rims...

Great car but after many many years of ownership I sold it. I often enjoy seeing them on the lancia forums or ebay.

Brings back a lot of memories.

http://www.fototime.com/421B5678C440AA1/standard.jpg

 

Looking at that Ebay ad also brought back a lot of good memories for me. My first car was a 1974 X1/9 with the small nerf bumpers. A good friend was an excellant FIAT mechanic and the car never let me down. I drove it from Texas to Colorado on numerous occassions. It had no A/C, but as a kid I was a lot more tolerant of the heat than I am today. It was my mini Ferrari and I loved it. Not a lot of power, but that was probably a good thing for me as a young driver. However, with an aftermarket exhaust, elimination of the smog pump and a lot of revs, it kept a smile on my face.

 

these cars suck in that respect. i can't drive it if it's much more than 30c (85f). on the other hand, you CAN drive it at temperatures approaching freezing (doesn't get that cold here) because within 2 minutes the heat in these things is awesome. it's fantastic to drive with the top off through the twisty hills on a sub-10c (50f) evening. people look at you like you're a nutter, but the cockpit is like a pizza oven and you have that crisp, cold refreshing air wafting through over the top.

you can also drive in the rain if you go quick enough... 100km/h (60mph) and the rain just sprinkles you, any more than that and you get barely a mist... and i've done it in about as heavy storms as you can imagine. i remember overtaking a WRX in absolute-bucketing rain at about 140 or so with the roof off and a massive grin on my mug... the guy looked over at me with a mixed looked of horror and surprise.