308 Water pump removal - how easy? | FerrariChat

308 Water pump removal - how easy?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Mr Iceman, Jul 13, 2005.

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  1. Mr Iceman

    Mr Iceman Karting

    Mar 3, 2004
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    Scott
    #1 Mr Iceman, Jul 13, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi guys,

    I think I've just had my water pump seize on me, Yesterday I went to take the car out for a drive and the water pump belt was squealing. The belt seemed a little loose so I jacked the car up removed the wheel and inner wheel well. I removed the belt before I tightened it and examined the WP. It was quite hard to turn by hand requiring a fair amount of force so I suspected the pump maybe the culprit however I reinstalled the belt made it a bit tighter and thoroughly cleaned the area. I started the engine and the belt was fine, happily turning the WP. So I put the car to bed reasonably happy. However this afternoon I went to get the car out of the garage to have a nice drive and guess what the belt is slipping again and hardly turning the pump at all. So I think I need a new pump. I've searched the archives on the subject of removing and replacing the WP, and I've read carl's tech tips; http://www.r-design.net/308/techtips.htm but I still have afew questions,

    1; Mine is a 1977 euro car so I don't have cut outs in the cam covers, this I believe would ordinarily mean that I would have to remove both covers to remove the WP. However, examining the WP on my car reveals that the two bolts near/under the forward (5-8) cam cover are just that, bolts and not studs/nuts (see photo) does this mean that I would be able to remove the WP without removing the forward cam cover and AC compressor etc? i.e has a previous owner replaced the studs and nuts with bolts for this very reason?

    2; on Carle's tech tip he refers to the requirement on older cars to remove the rear (1-4) cam covers and tis requiring a stud puller to allow the cover to be removed due to fowling with the frame. Again my car seems to have bolts instead of studs ( see second photo), so again my question is will the rear cover be easy to remove? i.e. just a case of undoing the bolts and removing the cover?

    I would like to buy a new pump, probably from Superformance, and then fit it myself, but I want to get an idea of what I'm letting myself in for.

    any advice would be greatly appreciated

    Cheers
    Scotty
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  2. pma1010

    pma1010 F1 Rookie

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    #2 pma1010, Jul 13, 2005
    If you have bolts and the cam cover has been notched, you should be able to pull it without disturbing the AC. Do thermometer while you are at it. Also check the heater hose connection to cylinder #5 -- often there's a lot of crud build up which you can relieve when the cooling system is open.
    Philip

    Edit: it may be #4, don't recall.
     
  3. gerritv

    gerritv Formula 3

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    #3 gerritv, Jul 13, 2005
    Hi Scott
    I R&R'd my 308GT4 water pump without using stud pullers etc. I had to remove one (or was it both) the belt covers. My AC compressor is under the work bench so that was not in the way.

    Gerrit
     
  4. Jdubbya

    Jdubbya The $10 Trillion Man
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    #4 Jdubbya, Jul 13, 2005
    I just did my '78 308 water pump.

    The rear belt cover does need to come off but should be very straightforward. Just unbolt the bolts and weasel it out. Mine went out the bottom just fine.

    The bolts on the pump everyone is talking about are the ones under the forward belt cover. The upper forward corner of the water pump and the one just below it will be obscured by the edge of the cover. You may be able to get at them with a wrench but you won't get a socket on them.

    If you don't have cut-outs in the cover around them you may need to take it off. This will likely mean unbolting the A/C unit and alternator.

    Hope this makes it a little clearer.

    John
     
  5. Mr Iceman

    Mr Iceman Karting

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    #5 Mr Iceman, Jul 14, 2005
    Thanks guy's , I guess the only real way to find out is give it a go and see, I just don't like the thought of having to remove the AC compressor to get at the front cam cover, so I hope I'll be able to do it with it still installed otherwise I might just take it to the garage.

    Cheers
    Scotty
     
  6. F308 MAN

    F308 MAN F1 Rookie

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    #6 F308 MAN, Jul 14, 2005
    hi scott ... water pump seized on gina during the le mans trip ... bought replacement and fitted it just down the road from you at whitfield ... ring me if you are stuck ... pm if you have lost the number.
    cheers, d
    EDIT : ... checkout:
    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65192&highlight=ginas+break
     
  7. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    #7 Birdman, Jul 14, 2005
    Scott,
    On my '77, a previous owner had notched the front belt cover to make the WP accessible. It looked like there was no way it was coming out with the stock belt cover in place. Anyway, if you end up having to pull the AC and both belt covers, the way to make it "worth it" is to replace the cam belts while you're in there. Not much money extra, just two belts and two tensioner bearings. I did my timing belts and WP at the same time.

    Birdman
     
  8. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    #8 Verell, Jul 14, 2005
    Why buy a new pump. They're very easy to rebuild as Carl's procedure indicates.
     
  9. WaltP

    WaltP Formula 3

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    #9 WaltP, Jul 14, 2005
    Does anyone have a picture they can post of a notched belt cover? I would like to see how much needs to be removed.
     
  10. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    #10 Birdman, Jul 14, 2005
    I'll hunt through my pics later and see if I have a decent shot of that. Not much needs to be taken off, however I should point out that you would want to remove the cover for the notching process, and don't try to do it with it in place. You could damage the timing belt, and get metal shards into bad places.

    Birdman
     
  11. WaltP

    WaltP Formula 3

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    #11 WaltP, Jul 14, 2005
    Birdman, you read my mind. Would still like to see a picture.
     
  12. Mr Iceman

    Mr Iceman Karting

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    #12 Mr Iceman, Jul 15, 2005
    Sorry to hear about your woes with gina Dave, you should have given me a call when you were in the the area, I'd have been glad to help out if I could.
    Thanks for your offer of help, you never know you may be getting a call from a very distressed man next week!

    I've ordered the pump from superformance (215 pounds) and should receive it on thursday, so if the weather is good ( I have to pull my car onto the drive to work on it) I will start work then.

    Verell I intend to fit the new pump and then rebuild my broken one to give me a spare, or to sell if I get low on funds!

    Thanks
    Scotty
     
  13. Mr Iceman

    Mr Iceman Karting

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    #13 Mr Iceman, Jul 20, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    OK, I haven't received my pump yet, expecting it tomorrow, but I thought I'd start to work try and hopefully getting the old one off.

    First problem, how to drain the fluid out of the system, I've removed the rear cam cover and, on the rear of the engine I can see what could best be described as a large wing nut (see photo, this the view looking from just forward and under the brake disk), is this a plug in the water jacket that I could use to drain the coolant?

    Second problem, I'll know for sure once I've drained the system and can try removing the pump, but it does look as though I'm probably going to have to remove the front cover. what I'm unsure of is how to remove the compressor, I dont think I have to drain that do I? can I remove it from its mounts and stow it out of the way without undoing any of the plumbing to it?

    Cheers
    Scotty
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  14. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    #14 Birdman, Jul 20, 2005
    Yes, that's the one!
     
  15. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    #15 Birdman, Jul 20, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Walt, attached is the best shot I could find from my timing belt job last winter that shows the front cam belt cover notches. Please note that the previous owner did this hack job. Once I got the cover off, I cleaned up the cutouts with a grinder and made them nice smooth semi-circles so they almost look factory. (Of course, I didn't take a picture of that.) As you can see, very little material needs to come off to make the water pump accessible. It's just two nuts that need to be reached behind the cover.

    Birdman
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  16. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    #16 Birdman, Jul 20, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hey Scott,
    See attached pic. On a GTB, you unbolt the compressor and hang it gently over the top of the fuel tank. You do not need to bleed the AC at all. I'm not sure about the GT4 but I would imagine that you can do something similar. On a GTB you have to undo the breather lines on the top of the fuel tank, but that is nothing big. Also, be careful to note the locations of the shim washers on all the mounting posts of the compressor. The proper alignment of the compressor/belt is achieved with these washers. (I made a little drawing making note of those details.)

    Birdman
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  17. F308 MAN

    F308 MAN F1 Rookie

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    #17 F308 MAN, Jul 22, 2005
    hi scott ... by the time you read this, you should probably be done ?

    the pump i bought from mike @ superformance doesn't have that "something" the original unit has. It also has a plastic impeller.Once home, i dismantled the orig. pump to find just the inner bearing had seized.

    I now plan to rebuild and refit the orig. water pump and keep the new one (as per yourself) as a spare.
    Perhaps we should keep just one between us, stick the other on ebay, and split the resulting beer tokens ?
    good luck, david
     
  18. WaltP

    WaltP Formula 3

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    #18 WaltP, Jul 22, 2005
    Thanks for the picture Birdman. When (not if) my water pump has to come off I will remove some of the belt cover for sure.
     
  19. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    #19 Verell, Jul 22, 2005
    The later 328 pumps had a plastic impeller. Don't think I've seen a pix of it, so if it's convenient, please post one.

    - Verell
     
  20. F308 MAN

    F308 MAN F1 Rookie

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    #20 F308 MAN, Jul 22, 2005
    Will do, oh great one.
    But it will be around winter time (November/December).
    Perhaps scotty may oblige if he hasn't yet fitted the replacement unit ?
    cheers, d
     
  21. Mr Iceman

    Mr Iceman Karting

    Mar 3, 2004
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    #21 Mr Iceman, Jul 22, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

    Hi Verell, I've just gone down stairs and taken a pic of the new unit I received from superformance this afternoon:



    Hi Dave, I wish! I've at last got the old pump off, I was very pleased that I didn't have to take the front cam covers off after all, however it still took me about a whole days work. My problem is, apart from being not entirely competent with a set of spanners, is that I have to wheel the car on to the drive everytime to work on her, very frustrating. I'm making it a priority that our next house has a double garage!!

    All I've got to do now is put the new pump on, grin. Unfortunately I'm going to be away for a few days so it may be a week before I can do it. I'll keep you informed of my progress. I've taken a few photo's along the way, and its my intention to post a step by step guide on here once I'm done for anybody in the future that is similarly unskilled as myself.

    must go to bed now , got work in the morning.

    Cheers
    Scotty
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  22. Mr Iceman

    Mr Iceman Karting

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    #22 Mr Iceman, Oct 23, 2005
    As promised, but long overdue I've posted a guide to removing the water pump on my website :

    www.scottmakin.co.uk

    I hope it may help some people in the future.

    Cheers
    Scotty
     

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