New Ferrari Dealers Pricing Change | Page 2 | FerrariChat

New Ferrari Dealers Pricing Change

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by surfbum, Aug 2, 2006.

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  1. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 World Champ

    Yea, you're crazy :) There's no easy answer to this. If the dealer owe's you one(and maybe it's in writing) then you're still on it. Otherwise don't hold your breath. I know plenty of people being dicked and these are good customers. It's not too hard to understand that if cars are trickling in the dealer's going to play favorites.
     
  2. 483hp

    483hp Formula 3
    Owner

    Aug 17, 2005
    1,428
    www.fca.alberta.com
    There is only so much money you can make by marking up the vehicles in a limited allocation to market price. So therefore, regular turnover must be incented through the customer base to enhance revenue. It seems the current situation is encouraging turnover very nicely so nothing is broken there. However, there is a significant volume of resale traffic that does not go through the dealer and that is the problem.

    Any fair policy change that encourages turnover (and more often) through the dealership rather than through a third party is a positive for both sides. Who wouldn't want to earn commission on the same cars year after year? That would be preferable to enhancing my margin on the initial sale and potentially disturbing the high level of interest in the pre-owned market.

    I'm sure most people here got the "I promise not to flip or export the car under these conditions" letter when they ordered a new F-car. Personally, I don't have too much of an issue with the concept, but it would of been better received if it was worded as a "Flip the car through us in 12 months or less and we'll give you a deal you can't refuse" letter.
     
  3. kirill

    kirill Formula Junior

    Jul 8, 2004
    584
    Illinois
    Full Name:
    Kirill
    How about 1 day lease, and than selling it as used ? :)
     
  4. robert biscan

    robert biscan F1 Veteran

    Jan 17, 2003
    5,066
    Nashville and Palm b
    Full Name:
    robert s biscan
    I think any change above MSRP is a mistake. It may play well for other manufactures. Lambo sales will rise rapidly. I don't see a problem right now and why change?
     
  5. KenU

    KenU Formula Junior

    Oct 14, 2004
    543
    Planet Earth
    Full Name:
    Ken
    "As of January 2007"? "Changing it's policy"?

    This has been an ongoing policy for quite some time now. How do I know this? I am one who paid above MSRP on a brand new F430 to an authorized dealer. You know how long I waited? About 6 weeks. They just slid me into an existing order (too late to add or delete options; quite happy anyway) and got the call to come pick up the car. Did I care or ask how this happened? No. Did someone else get bumped? What do YOU think? I was also a first-time customer of this dealer. I know for a fact, and it didn't bother me in the least, that they sold and still sell and WILL sell in 2007 and beyond @ MSRP to their select clients who have bought many F-cars over the years and re-sold through them, as well; Enzos, F-40's, F-50's, 360's etc. I met a few of them at the dealership who have given literally hundreds of thousands of dollars in net profit to this dealer over the years. Those are hands the dealer will never "bite". Are there other customers who don't "rank" as high? Sure, they bumped one (for me) so they could take advantage of the marketplace and continue to do so.

    So, you can forget about the "list". I'm proof that lists are a bunch of BS and that this "new" policy is been "old hat" for quite sometime WITH FNA's KNOWLEDGE and blessing!
     
  6. sandersja

    sandersja Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2003
    367
    Portland OR
    Full Name:
    John Sanders
    I think there is an issue about waiting lists... there is no point with a "market pricing" scheme. Every car that gets delivered to the dealer is then available to whoever has the most cash in hand.

    In fact - why have Ferrari dealerships at all? The factory should just put up every new car on eBay so it goes to the highest bid.
     
  7. rbf41000

    rbf41000 Formula Junior

    Nov 21, 2005
    676
    Charlotte NC
    Full Name:
    Russell
    If dealers start to charge market value I think the short term effect will be to raise the cost of both new and used models.
    Eventually the consumer will wise up and market value will drop, you might even see deals on new cars as people get fed up with the game and go to other makes.

    Russell
     
  8. spiderseeker

    spiderseeker Formula 3

    Jul 22, 2005
    1,718
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Steve
    MSRP - Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price
     
  9. kizdan

    kizdan F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2003
    5,505
    Absolutely, positively FALSE.
     
  10. Bird Man

    Bird Man Karting

    Jul 11, 2004
    175
    N.cal./bay area
    You know this to be false because you are with a dealer or affiliated with a dealer??
     
  11. mw575

    mw575 F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2001
    2,924
    Lake Oswego,Or
    Full Name:
    Martin J Weiner,M.D.
    True-altho the laissez-faire attitude of FNA exists NOW!! One doesn't have to wait until '07.Virtually all new 430's are being sold by dealers at market price.
    This also applies to the 599.Don't know about the 612.
     
  12. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 World Champ

    Jeez reread the original post and thought he said '06.... Yea, this is currently ongoing. As I said it's "off the record." No need to wait for 1/07 on that one ;) If you're looking, just get out there and grind your best deal. Life's too short to wait around for the F-balloon to go up in the air.
     
  13. AJF1

    AJF1 Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    93
    NJ
    Full Name:
    AJ
    Guys, Dan works for an authorized ferrari dealer.
     
  14. AMA328

    AMA328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 12, 2002
    2,518
    ABQ-67me68-OKC :)
    Well, since Beverly Hills Ferrari is the 2nd Factory owned dealership in the U.S.(SFO was 1st), I'd guess they're not
    gonna have their allocation cut anytime soon. :)
     
  15. kizdan

    kizdan F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2003
    5,505
    If there are dealers out there selling untitled cars at over MSRP, this is going against Ferrari of North America's wishes.
     
  16. TBond8

    TBond8 Karting

    Feb 7, 2006
    136
    CT,CA, Europe
    Full Name:
    Thomas
    It seems to me that if this policy was to be true and Dealers could sell their allocation of F430 and 599 etc at market price then the letter not to flip goes away as there is no real margin for the buyer to do so. Also it would remove from the list people that just want to put down a deposit and own the car for a week and then flip it be it to the dealer or someone else. As for the really good clients of each dealership? Well we all know they will still get their cars and will still pay a better price than some others.

    The effect this might have is to reduce the list and the wait for new F-cars. How would this be bad? If you are willing to pay something over the MSRP then the difference for you is you really are getting a new F-car and are considered the first owner on paper. If you only like paying MSRP or lower then you still will and probably in the same waiting time as now. It will not take long for the speculators in the market to leave as the get burned by prices going down faster and not rising. Demand and what someone is willing to pay for any item is what drives pricing as we all know. So if you take away the upside what would happen?

    In the end I am not sure what is better or should be the way to proceed forward. We all know that people get bumped by dealers. That has happened and will happen. The dealers are going to look at each individual situation and decide if they can get away with it. What I have not liked is the speculators that have no real interest in the car but only in the upside profit. But we live in a capitalist world so this is one of the unpleasant sides of it.

    IMHO
    Thanks,
     
  17. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    75,370
    Texas!
    I realize that it is inappropriate to post facts on an internet chat board. :)

    However, you may wish to contemplate this:

    1. "Price Fixing" between a manufacturer and a retailer is illegal under the US antitrust laws. Thus, if Ferrari Spa or its agent FNA, demanded that its US dealers sell F430 Spiders at MSRP, odds are good that the FTC would file suit.

    2. However, there is enough leeway in the law that Ferrari can apply a "take it or leave it" policy against dealers who do not adopt Ferrari's policy on maintaining a range of retail prices. This means that if Dealer X takes delivery of a F430 Spider and flips it for $100k over MSRP, Ferrari can refuse to sell any more F430 Spiders to that Dealer.

    This second point is how FNA has been trying to keep dealers from flipping cars.

    However, the 360 Spider changed everything. You had dealers making, say, $20,000 on a new car only to see independent brokers immediately make another $100k flipping that same car. When you only sell maybe 30 Spiders a year, you can see why the dealers began crying foul. The brokers were making a LOT more money than they were.

    This lead to a certain amount of gamesmanship that I'm not going to get into here. If you're interested, search F-Chat because this has been covered before.

    What is happening now (so I have been told) is that FNA has relaxed its MSRP rule and a Ferrari dealer can now sell at market, whatever that is, without jeopardizing his future allocation of cars. So each dealer is free to either sell to his loyal customers at MSRP or to tell them, "Look, the market for a F430 Sypder is $100k over. If you want this car, it's yours at the market price. Otherwise, I'll keep you on the list for the next car we get. Maybe the market price will come down by then."

    While loyal customers (and brokers) may not like this change, it makes a lot of sense for the dealers.

    Dale
     
  18. IslandBoy

    IslandBoy Formula Junior

    May 26, 2005
    363
    South Florida
    Full Name:
    Richard H

    Well said. This is purely a market cycle we are in. Many on this board are new to the Ferrari world, and dont remember that it was not too long ago that you could walk into an authorized Ferrari dealer and negotiate a REDUCTION off MSRP on a new F-Car!! (And I am NOT referrring to some "undesirable 4 seater" ). I bought my brand new 355 spider at $7K LESS than MSRP ................... Its all business cycles, and we may be heading back there at some point in the future. It is unwise of BOTH consumer & dealer to think that the recent market scenario will be the way it will always be!
     
  19. KenU

    KenU Formula Junior

    Oct 14, 2004
    543
    Planet Earth
    Full Name:
    Ken
    That may be "officially", Dan. Coming from a Ferrari salesman I wouldn't expect anything stated to the contrary - even if stated by Mr. Luca himself.

    But I can't help but imagine Mr. Luca walking off the podium and giving someone standing off to the side a little wink and smirk after admonishing those dealers that sell above MSRP.
     
  20. Azzuro Blue

    Azzuro Blue Karting

    Feb 23, 2006
    241
    West Palm, FL
    Free market pricing would be great except for those who are in on the "game". It would help balance supply and demand by freeing all new cars to be sold at market to real buyers. It would eliminate, as buyers, who are not willing to pay up to the market price (those who are only buying to make money or drive a car for free). The dynamics change dramatically. First year buyers instead of being assured of being able to drive the cars free would face the greatest depreciation (look at early Ford GT or Viper buyers). Many would not be in the market. Demand would be reduced and prices would be significantly lower.
     
  21. noahlh

    noahlh Formula 3

    Aug 28, 2003
    2,231
    NYC, NY
    Full Name:
    Noah
    I have heard from my own very reliable source (someone highly placed at FNA) that this is patently false, and in fact the OPPOSITE is true -- FNA is cracking down on dealers charging over MSRP and will be imposing sanctions on those that persist or are found to engage in the practice.

    For what it's worth....

    nlh
     
  22. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2006
    15,517
    Cerritos, CA.
    Full Name:
    Mike
  23. jeff

    jeff Formula 3

    Feb 19, 2001
    1,924
    North America
    My dealer also said this information is false.
     

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