Insight needed on Colorado real estate

You might want to check out Salida to Leadville in the Arkansas valley. There are riverside properties available that won't make you faint price wise and it is definitely not condo-ized like the resorts. Alternatively, the Taylor river valley which flows into the Gunnison is a world class trout river but I don't know how much private property there might be on it. Colorado real estate is pretty cheap as long as you stay out of the ski resorts.

Dave

 

Might try looking up north around the Red Feather Lakes area or the Poudre Canyon.

 

Agreed on above. Also, Creede, CO maybe?

 

+1.
There is no ski resort (other than low key Monarch Pass and Cooper Hill) in this area so land prices are not sky high and the area is geared more towards hunting/fishing/hiking than alpine skiing and the high-end commercial development that that attracts. However, there is limited private property in Chaffee County so prices are escalating as it fills up.

The Arkansas River Valley also has several canyons on the west side (Chalk Creek, Cottonwood Creek) that contain trout streams and are bordered by private property.

I own 5 acres of bare land near Buena Vista (the central tourist town between Salida and Leadville) that Chaffee County says is worth 117k market value (and that is about right). They value it for taxing purposes at 34k and I pay $1500/yr.

 

Get educated about the forests. Southern Colorado hasn't been hit hard by the pine beetle, but there are some major problems with the aspen in certain areas there. The pine beetles are devastating the forests in areas like Grand County. It is a natural cycle, but the fact is that certain areas have entire mountainsides turning brown from the dead trees. It's ugly.

Down south in the San Juans the aspen are in trouble, here is an example of some of the press:

Forest Service: Aspens are dying

Aspen trees such as these in the San Juan National Forest are dying. Experts have isolated failing root systems as the culprit.
Post
By Electa Draper

Mancos - Aspen forests in Colorado and throughout the West are fading from the landscape, dying faster and in more places than previously expected and for reasons scientists don’t understand.

In every Western state, aspen mortality is increasing, U.S. Forest Service ecologists say.

In the past two years, large-scale die-off of thousands of acres has been documented for the first time in Colorado by aerial surveys of prime aspen country on the Western Slope.

“The aspen is in universal decline in the Intermountain West,” aspen researcher Wayne Shepperd said from the Rocky Mountain Research Station in Fort Collins. “I haven’t seen anything like this before in 37 years in the Forest Service. But it’s suddenly very noticeable.”

The aspen, the most widely dispersed tree in North America, is abundant on 3.6 million acres in Colorado. In terms of numbers of acres of shimmering white glades in the West, half of them are in Colorado.

“The Colorado blue spruce might be the official state tree, but aspen pays the rent,” Shepperd said. “It’s really the icon in Colorado. We’re going to have some holes in the Western landscape.”

While the state doesn’t track the dollars, the fall foliage creates a tourist draw after summer recreation has wound down and before skiing begins. Hunters and leaf lookers are a mainstay of Colorado’s fall season, when 20 percent of “overnight pleasure tours” take place in the state, according to the most recent state-commissioned study, in 2004.

Aspen is a hardwood commercially harvested in western Colorado and, wildlife managers say, is popular with wildlife for food and cover.

Aspen ecologist Dale Bartos, based in Logan, Utah, estimates that 10 percent, or hundreds of thousands of acres, of aspen in the West ultimately could fail.

Shepperd fears that’s a conservative estimate.

“We don’t know how far it will go because we don’t know what’s causing it,” he said. “I hate to sound alarmist, but I am alarmed.”

Research stations around the West report that the trees are dying at high and low elevations.

They are dying on north-facing and south-facing slopes. They are dying where there is intense grazing on young aspen and where there is no grazing. They are dying where fires have raged and where they have been suppressed. They are dying where logging has been common and where it has never happened. They are dying in drought-stricken areas and in fairly lush areas. They are dying where conifers are crowding them and where they aren’t.

Tall and short, young and old - although more old - are dying.

Shepperd said this type of dieback phenomenon was not witnessed at any time in the past century.

Recent investigations of dying stands show that the roots are dying. Aspen sprouts are formed on the roots, so this tells Shepperd that these stands won’t be making a comeback.

Foresters have known for decades that the West’s aspen population, with many trees 120 to 130 years old, would face greater mortality because of age and a number of environmental stresses - drought, insect infestations, disease, fire suppression, and overgrazing of young aspen by livestock and wildlife.

But the accelerating rate of death, the widespread mosaic across the West without discernible pattern and the loss of root systems are disturbing to researchers.

“There is something else going on,” Shepperd said. “We just can’t put a handle on it.”

Aspen is considered to be one of the planet’s largest organisms because a stand’s trees are interconnected at their roots. Aspen typically reproduce asexually by suckering - generating new sprouts from the roots.

When aspen leaves die, the trees stop producing a chemical growth inhibitor. When it stops flowing, the roots are signaled to produce new trees to replace the dead. That’s why recent findings of dead root systems are so significant.

In the San Juan National Forest in southwestern Colorado, aspen appear to be in the most trouble. Thousands of acres are dead or dying.

“The San Juan aspen is the ultimate expression of aspen on the American continent,” Shepperd said. “The stands are larger. The trees are bigger. But we found a really accelerated mortality rate there in June … and dead roots.”

Forester Phil Kemp of the San Juan’s Dolores Ranger District said he started noticing the dieback several years ago but became very worried this year when aspen stands in the Turkey Knolls area, which had been around 10 percent dead in 2002, were 60 percent dead.

“It’s disturbing,” he said. “If this continues, it’s going to have a dramatic effect on the look of the forest.”

There are other ramifications.

The aspen buds and catkins are valuable food for ruffed grouse. The tender bark, twigs and foliage are eaten by small mammals such as rabbits and by big game such as deer, elk and moose. Porcupines and beavers love the bark.

An aspen glade, unlike a conifer thicket, often supports a lush understory of grasses and other edible plants. Bears frequent aspen stands. Many types of birds depend on tree cavities for homes.

And the die-off spells trouble for the three commercial aspen harvesters on the Western Slope.

“It’s scary. About two years ago I started noticing all the dead trees on the hillsides,” said Mary Ann Findley, co-owner of Aspen Wall Wood. “We can’t use the dead trees. We need green trees to make our tongue- and-groove paneling.”

Many disturbances, such as clear-cutting, forest fires, avalanches and landslides, actually encourage generation of aspen, a quick-growing, sun-loving tree that is among the first to establish itself in a clearing. Aspen are eventually driven out of many areas by slower-growing conifers that ultimately crowd and shade them.

But a century of fire suppression has diminished one of aspen’s biggest advantages. Aspen regeneration in burned areas of Colorado, such as the Missionary Ridge and Million fires, has been encouraging, Shepperd said. But the good news is local. The bad news is widespread.

Aspen historically have been able to withstand herds, droughts and blights without massive die-off, Bartos said. But the aspen’s heyday could be over. The phenomenon could point to a loss of genetic vigor.

“They seem more susceptible,” Bartos said. “I don’t know if this is just a natural resetting of the table.”

Staff writer Electa Draper can be reached at 970-385-0917 or [email protected].




Places like this can help your education.
http://csfs.colostate.edu/iandd.htm
http://csfs.colostate.edu/library/pdfs/fhr/05fhr.pdf


You might as well try to buy in an area that is not under immediate threat if you can.

 

Ouray County - near Ridgway.

Mineral County - Creede is popular with Texans.

Hinsdale County - Lake City is also popular with Texans.

The Cuchara area is incredible - western Huerfano County, southwest of LaVeta.

Anywhere in Archuleta County - Pagosa is commercialized, but east of there and north of there is not so bad.

And as much as it pains me to say it, anything west of Trinidad in Las Animas County is some of the best of what Colorado has to offer.

 

Most of Colorado has pretty low taxes, at least compared to the coasts, don't know about Texas. Chaffee county taxes open land pretty stiff, but improved property pretty low. Not many aspen stands in this county to begin with--too dry. There was some beetle kill on Ponderosas in recent years, but the epidemic never really got going around here. The forest service has been doing controlled burning. Some of the Lodgepole stands are old and too thick with lots of slash, just waiting for a match or lightning strike. The area is best known for river rafting and the string of 15 14 thousand foot mountains in the range on the west side of the river.

Dave

PS: Lake City is populated with Texans and pretty remote. There is an Italian transplant there (Angelo) who owns the Pasta Factory and says Ferrari owners eat free.

Dave

 

Where abouts is your property. We live about 3 miles NW of BV.

DAve

 

Lake City is the only city in Colorado's most remote county and yet they had the most recent issue of DuPont Registry at that restaurant when I ate there ten months ago. I couldn't believe it! At the time I wondered if a Ferrari had ever been in Hinsdale County - not long afterwards I found (many) photos of an event with several Ferraris parked in front of that very restaurant!

 

Lot #22, Wapiti Circle, up in the trees at base of Mt. Columbia. I think it's the only lot without a house on that drive. I've owned it for over 30 years, but live in Oregon and don't get down very often. When I do I usually bring a truck and camper and park there and use it as a base camp for hiking and climbing the fourteeners in your backyard. Paul

 

Just read your profile and see you have an F430 manual. Good for you! Wow that must be fun to drive. I understand the functionality of an F1, especially for a car that can justify it and really take advantage of it like an F430, but I so love to "drive" that I can't imagine having a car like that and not being able to be fully engaged in managing the drive train, double clutching, heel/toe shifting, and blipping the throttle when it just felt right.
Respect and admiration to you for going with the manual in the face of F1 mania!

 

Not only that, he bought a 328 Berlinetta in the face of "targa top" GTS mania.

-F

 

Paul,
Is that lot in Game Trail or 3Elk? I have been enjoying working the stickshifts on the Cottonwood pass road lately. It is closed for the winter at about 10K ft but that just keeps the tourists away and I normally have it to myself although I have to watch out for deer and big horns which seem to always be around. It's a great 20 mile round trip. Be sure to contact me before coming to town.

Bill Orth @ FOD has suggested my tastes may be a little out of whack (although his 360 is a 3 pedal coupe as well).

Dave

 

Angelo insisted the club stop by last Sept on the FFFT. It was great. There was snow the night before and the scenery was great. Angelo had the whole town out on the streets when we cruised into town. We certainly did not expect such a reception! He fed all 50-60 of us and did not want any money but the club finally convinced him to accept something like $5/head. The butt of my 430 is in the photos out front which I think are still on the RMRFCA ebsite.

Dave

 

3 Elk

That is the first road I thought of when I read you had a manual! I road my bicycle up to the top and back two summers ago - would have been a great ride except for the traffic. I can imagine it would be a great place to drive in late spring when it is clear and the tourists have yet to arrive.

That would be fun to look you up. The open country NW of BV is the last place I'd expect to find a couple Fcars hiding out. Just shows you never know. That is beautiful country.

Sorry about that...

 

Sorry Husker,

one more hijack. Seems there are fishermen on FC...

Hey you guys interested in getting a flyfishing trip of Fchaters together somewhere in Co this summer?

 

** E-mail Todd Crosbie @ [email protected] He is knowledgable of the area and surely can assist you.
Family Man

 

Husker-
We think taxes are cheap, particularly in Aspen.
$350k condo in Aspen $8xx per year.
$300k home in Illinois $6,xxx per year.

Usually, you get what you pay for. Have to think about resale and amenities. Do need need medical care, etc. or is it a place to vacation. It may be cheaper to rent than to own if you are going to spend a few weeks a year. The more time at the the location usually the more it makes sense to own.

There are some great suggestions in this thread. You will have great fun checking them out.

There are beautiful properties right on the river on the east side of Independence Pass that have been on the market for years. they must be relatively cheap. You can't get to Aspen in the winter, but you can in the summer. Right off of paved SH 182. And there is a nearby lake to fish in (Twin Lakes).

Enjoy the quest. Riverfront property is getting really rare. Water rights are frequently more valuable than the land in colorado. Who owns the river? Can everybody and their brother fish it too? do you mind having the Farkle Family in stream in back of your place? Privacy usually costs money (but worth it IMVHO).

Good luck. Peace.

 

Depending on where you get property - frankly I'd rather own in a more desirable area because I'm more likely to see a strong return on that investment in the future - I imagine you'd be kicking yourself if you'd have rented that condo in Aspen thirty years back given how much it's appreciated since!

 

Don't know if this has been mentioned but check out:

http://www.edgewatercabinresort.com/

I heard about them on the radio. I have no idea if they are expensive, lame, etc. Might be worth checking out.

-F