Should I Change My Belts Or Just Forget It Until They Brake?

You are "muy loco" Tommy, but I LOVE IT!!!!!

You know we all wanna see if the belts will give in and when. You're a crazy boy. I'm not saying you should do it but..........................I'll be watching just in case.

 

As a disinterested spectator, I'd say 7 years with new belts and tensioners and no leaks on them on a frequently driven, but not raced car, is worth the gamble. But I have a Lotus with a timing chain so feel free to ignore me. 3 majors in 7 years almost pays for a new motor anyway although YMMV.

Ken

 

Isn't that the truth.

 

1980 308i
2k miles in 5 years, look at the play in that belt, and although its not a great shot, half the diameter is missing as well.
Its not a case of right or wrong, to me its more like " why should i carry car insurance, i am not going to have an accident"
When they go, you will do more than damage a head!!. Get ready for pistons, block/liners/crank....... should i go on??.
Change them yourself. Lock the cams, mark them, put the new belts on make sure the marks line up and fire away. Not rocket science.
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The whole trouble with experimenting is that it has the potential to get very expensive.

I would replace the belts next year, even if you're only keeping elephants off the lawn. Better to be safe than sorry.

As for performance modifications, the QV performs very well without them. I do recommend HyperFlow cats very highly, but any other mods are going to necessitate more maintenance - including more frequent belt changes - and it sounds like money is, in fact, an object.

 

Fusion Sports Ferrari-Tech,

Thank you for the photo. However, I draw the opposite conclusion. I believe that your experience supports, if not justifies leaving the belts alone. I posit that if your belts failed in that way at 5,000 miles (2 years) that you installed a manufacturer defect.

Belts that have traveled 30,000 miles have "...withstood the test of time...," and have demonstrated themselves to be "properly manufactured" and will likely sustain many more miles (vis-a-vis Honda, Toyota and the like-100,000 miles). Lurking in the background every time one "electively" changes a part is the fear that one is replacing a known good part with an unknown manufactured flaw. The same might be said for electively changing sodium valves that have traveled many miles with new valves. (While not wanting to change the subject, sodium valves fail because of a flawed weld, not because of metal fatique.)

While belt failures do ocurr, the frequency, I believe, is somewhat amplified on the chat. This is a frequent and heated discussion in the flat-12 section (Boxers and Testarossas) where engines are quite a bit more expensive, and where it is much more costly to change belts. There is, clearly, a sampling error as several fine mechanics participate on F-Chat. They see the consequences of belt failure and report them on F-Chat. However, all of us not experiencing belt failure don't report (everyday) when our belts don't fail.... There were somewhere around 7,000 (or more) Testarossas and 3000+ Boxers produced across the series. If low mileage belt failure were a systemic problem I believe we would hear about it much more frequently. I do not believe that everyone owning flat-12s or 3x8s is compulsive about rushing in to their local Ferrari mechanic to plop down thousands of dollars at the turn of the odometer. Hence, old belts are still running around. I changed my Boxer belts after 20 years and my Testarossa belts after 17 years, both with 30,000 miles, and both could not be distinguished from the new belts taken off the shelf.

Ken is correct. Following Ferrari's recommended service is not in the best economic interest of the owner. You can purchase a new engine after 3 belt changes.

Jim S.

 

Tommy,

I don't normally weigh in on this sort of thing but I think it is a bad idea to run until the belt breaks. When that belt breaks, the forces in the engine can be very strong. If a valve comes in direct contact with a piston, the cam to valve surface, the cam itself, the cam bearing, piston surface, the bearing under the piston, the piston to crankshaft bearing, the piston rod, the crank itself (balanced nicely before impact), the main bearing to the housing, the piston sleeve, the block....just to name a few,....get slammed pretty hard because they are ALL in the chain. I would worry not about what you know but what you don't. This will only give people a data point of one...not statistically significant...and the debate will continue to rage. Change the belts when you think they are due. IMHO.

-Rjay

 

A couple things to think about. The easiest way to make it 200cc larger is to just star with a 328 engine. I'm told a 360 crank can be had for about $100 will make a 3.2 abot a 3.4, I haven't done the math for a 3.0 base.

The easiest way to get 30 hp is to scrap the CIS. It's a really up hill battle to make hp if you leave the CIS on the car with boost being by far the most effective. You could also do carbs if EFI scares you....but EFI isn't that scary really

I think Norwood is probably a good choice to build the engine, I may use them too for the machine work at least on my new project, but they don't do porting as far as I know. They may be able to recommend someone good because all porting is nothing like the same. If you were closer to ready to go, I'd offer you my QV heads that I no longer will be needing. Oh, the CIS intake manifold is also a problem for flow, so as soon as you touch the heads, the problem moves to the intake and I’m not sure how much can be done to fix the intake, the runners are much too small, but I’m sure it can at least be improved.

 

My cars are all helicopters. I do not tolerate breakdowns. Things that go most often are usually the least expensive to replace. These include batteries, brakes, hoses, belts (in most cars) and tires. I buy batteries that are 3 or 4 year free replacement and replace them after 3 1/2 - 4 years. I trickle charge them for 24 - 48 hours every other month just to keep them topped for example. I buy the parts as the time is approaching then leisurely do the work at my convenience. I can sometimes take advantage of sale pricing this way.

aehaas

 

you are joking I hope! Imagine racing on a highway and you bend a valve or engine seizes you lose control of your vehicle being scared of the loud bang of a piston going through!

That is dangerous! For also your passenger and other drivers!

Ferraris are for people which do not have problems spending money to keep them in shape!
After doing years of scarifices to own one ,lets go out and break one! No you don't love your Ferrari!

Belts cost $190 including bearings,if you changed bearings last time you can change belts only.But its $190 towards a car which is worth $30000-$40000.
You can change the belts yourself as another Fchat member said you don't need to be a rocket scientist!

Instead of building a stronger unoriginal engine buy a 328!

Ferraris should be left how they were from the factory,I agree if you like to personalise wheels or carbon details ,but If you like a 308 it has to be a 308! Not a 308 with an F40 engine!
I find it funny seeing people placing corvett engines in Ferrraris!

Hope you do your car a favour and change its belts.You'll proberly do your bank account a favour also!
Save and get a 355 if you want power or break and keep the 308 !

 

GREAT DO YOUR SHOPPING IN THE STATES ,I SELL FOR $190 ORIGINAL BELTS & TENSIONER BEARINGS, OTHER ITEMS CONTACT ME AT [email protected] see whats cheaper for you and decide.

 

Tommy, I think I'm doing it now, My belt has seven years and 7,600 mile on it and I'm still driving it weekly, I know I'm insane for taking a big chance, but SOON I mean SOON I will change it myself and keep you guys inform.

 

that's what I was having problems with in your first set of posts, that you want to keep and cherish this car, yet string out the maintenance on the one part that would make that desire a bit null and void.

Tell me [honest question here]: Did you have a certain change in heart due to risks or differing logic in changing belts? Why the change.

 

I did my first 30k service on my 355 at 7 year mark with Dave Helms in Boulder back in 2004 car had 13k miles on it. When it was taken off he said "this belt still look good!". The car had a whole host of other things needing fixing, my point is that the belt was not he weak point of the car at all!

I agree with the past posts about a belt being made to last 7 years with normal driving. If you drive at 8k rpm all the time or track, well then that changes everything. Typical cars dont do that RPM or have the heat of the F cars.

 

That's really it in a nutshell...too much can happen.....up to and including shattered pistons and thrown rods....

The same thing can happen with a sodium valve breaking, so do them too.

Good Luck Dr.T.!

 

and

so, not bad to run it up the flag pole and see who salutes....your logic did have some value and was interesting to explore....
[now ... any great ideas on valve guide replacments ]

 

I did not install those belts, so cannot comment intelligently about there origin or set up, I am just changing them now.
The owner gave the old " But I have not driven that many miles, why change them", Until I had him come by and see the belts.
I recommend 3 years, will allow five, but go seven and tow your car out of here.
I tell people all the time, Ferrari ownership is not for everyone.

 

The consequences of a belt break are horrific.

Just to put a bit of perspective on this though,
According to the dealer, Ford's current policy in the UK for their "Focus" model (4 cyl 1.8L) is to change the cambelt after 10 (ten) yrs. That's typically 100k+ miles

I'm afraid that my Ferrari won't be doing anything like that before a belt change, after all I could buy a couple of new Ford Focus's for the price of a replacement engine.

Martin

 

Tommy - always remember The Law. .....The Law of Unintended Consequences. There are way too meany negative variables here to make this seem as easy as it is. ie' they break when you are on the freeway, and you innciently get clobbered by a car like the guy in Florida with his Boxer'.....I could go on and on.........
Why not just take a pile of money and set it on fire in your yard?
If you have always wanted this car since 1981 - why destory it to try and upgrade it?
Just my 2 cents (or 1/2 a peeny against worldwide currency)
Kevin S.
Orchard Park, NY