alloy of aluminum in the 360 body... | FerrariChat

alloy of aluminum in the 360 body...

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by prova66, Dec 11, 2007.

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  1. prova66

    prova66 Rookie

    Oct 30, 2004
    20
    Full Name:
    aka: guido veloce
    after working with some 360 and 430 cars...i have found the body is made of an extremely tough alloy of aluminum...i'm wondering if anyone knows what alloy of aluminum it is...and what kind of filler material is used to weld it...






    CP
     
  2. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,433
    socal
    Here is my WAG. Most Al cars like NSX/ audi use 6xxxseries alloy in extrusions and rocker panels etc.. So I'd think about using ER5356 for course TIG as oppesd to general purpose 4043.
     
  3. prova66

    prova66 Rookie

    Oct 30, 2004
    20
    Full Name:
    aka: guido veloce
    ...i've welded alloys in the 606? family...and they can be welded, so long as you don't get them too hot...parts of the modena that got replaced i've played around with trying to weld it...both filler alloys 5356 e 4043 crack...gas welding too for kicks...with 1100 rod and 6061 i snipped from a sheet...again in tig and gas...cracked...they are all mig welded, and maybe that has something to do with it?...the old alfa gta's used an alloy that had a 24 hour window, then it would cure and you couldn't work or weld it, very well...the modena is certainly an heat treatable alloy...just which one?...




    CP
     
  4. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,433
    socal
    Your problem is heat cracking via issues with the heat effected zone and or liquation. I have not tried to weld a 360 myself. But TIG aluminum

    1) Did you try preheat which under some conditions will alter the properties of the alloy welded or

    2) fast weld high heat convex bead

    3) clean the crap out of it to decrease the oxide layer was a given.

    4) try using a tab of aluminum and start eh weld to get everything hot and run off the tab and into your work piece? This is more a of way to get a hot start

    5) Try running multiple small beads and join them together instead of one long pass? This will relieve stress in the run.

    While the exact filler rods are important 5356 and 4043 are so universal I would be surprised if the 360 was not a common alloy that would use these fillers. Ferrari is just too cheap to use an exotic aluminum.
     
  5. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    12,917
    The twilight zone
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    The Butcher
    A 24 hour window implies 2024 which after heat treat will age to full hardness at room temperature in 24 hours...it doesn’t crack when welded though, it just turns soft, weak metal.

    5356 rod is generally for 5000 series aluminums I think, it's harder and would be more prone to cranking. Many things that are designed to be welded in manufacture are a 5000 series because it maintains it’s mechanical properties after welding….but it shouldn’t be cracking for you.

    Magnesium welds nice with alum rod, but then the entire fill region cranks and pops right out - a guy I used to work with had made a 2x4 with a weld bead glued in that he would give new guys as an example and hand then a 2x4 to practice welding, pretty funny.

    My guess is a 7000 series…they crack. I don’t know how the factory is welding it.
     
  6. Valence

    Valence Formula Junior

    Jan 20, 2004
    883
    Charlottesville, VA
    Full Name:
    Chris& Brian Coffing
    I think factory uses MIG
     
  7. 350HPMondial

    350HPMondial F1 Veteran
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    Feb 1, 2002
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    Edwardo
    ha ha,

    yes, factory uses all MIG, , w/ robots...
    And,,,,,,,, you have to use strip heaters to do Aluminum tig.
    (period)

    Edwardo
     
  8. Valence

    Valence Formula Junior

    Jan 20, 2004
    883
    Charlottesville, VA
    Full Name:
    Chris& Brian Coffing
    well then I guess all you need now are some robots
     
  9. 350HPMondial

    350HPMondial F1 Veteran
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    Feb 1, 2002
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    Edwardo
    #9 350HPMondial, Dec 13, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  10. prova66

    prova66 Rookie

    Oct 30, 2004
    20
    Full Name:
    aka: guido veloce
    yea...i've tried pretty much all of the above...even pre-heating, though that is something i generally have only had to do welding aluminum castings...the story i've heard about the factory is they had the welders practice by making some racks out of the stuff so they could then program the robots the procedure...i'm not sure the validity of this story, but it would mean that the alloy is not standard...and since alcoa is in-house with the factory and they worked together to develop the alloys used, maybe they came up with something not akin to normal welding practice...i don't think the factory would let the info out as they are pretty funny to deal with...

    honestly the factory mig welds are pretty sloppy...not very flowed-in...though on some of the bolt-in pieces, the welds are beautiful...like the smaller bolt-in parts are hand made, and the large chassis is sent down a line of robots...

    gonna try a spool-gun and see if that helps any...

    thanks for the input tifosi...

    if you hear anything drop a line......



    curtis patience

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    www.juicebrakes.com
     

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