Has anyone successfully twin turbo'd the 430?

I was hoping someone along the road was gonna express some interest in doing forced induction on an F430. I too have seen a few twin turbo'd 360's but yet no 430's. I'm sure they're out there somewhere just in hiding, or someone is planning the same thing. I come from a very heavy modification background so I know quite a bit about turbocharging anything. I like turbo's more myself and once those things start spooling up, it turns any car into a monster. What kind of turbo's are you planning on running in the F430 if you don't mind me asking?

 

There are so many problems with this, as I have learned, it would take way too long to go into it.

This is the overview:

Your Ferrari will no longer behave like a Ferrari.


I'm not some purist or anything. I want a Ferrari from Hell, and have the spec-sheet to build it; I just wouldn't mess with bolt-on's.

I had the same idea but threw it out a while ago because of the problems with forced induction. Around a track you will be slower, lack of back-pressure, loss of low end torque, more skittish because of turbo-lag, blah blah blah, its a bad idea.


_J

 

The Garrett series turbo's are really good for building a custom setup. I believe the 4.3L should be able to handle 10psi with stock internals. Most guys would play it safe and just keep it at 5psi in fear of high compression. Either way, you'll definitely be looking at close to 550 at the wheels or damn near close to 600, granted if everything is tuned and done right. Classic Coach Ferrari in New Jersey is pretty well known for doing turbo fabrications on Ferrari's. They might be able to help.


http://www.ccferrari.com/Menu.html

 

It won't behave like a F430.

It'll behave like a modern F40 on crack.

 

Hm, I think the Novitec system puts out about 7psi or so. I don't think the boost is set any more than 10 on them. I wasn't really impressed with their system mainly due to the fact that you can prolly get more out these engines than what they are rated at. Granted if you had the money to be able to fix them if they break, I'd definitely suggest building your own custom setup like you said. But my days of tinkering with cars are over for now. And when I get my F430, I prolly won't be inclined to do any modding of any kind because of the money I had to save just to buy the car...haha. But it's good to do something different that no one else has done that's for sure.

 

nonsense.

The track is the best place for a turbo because lag is a non-issue.

Loss of low end is only true if you significantly low the compression ratio, and non-existent is you stick with a stock engine There just is any gain in low end, but no loss either.

You need to start over in you research and this time find reputable sources.

For the street I much prefer positive displacement type superchargers becasue boost is available right from idle to redline. The sensation is like going from a small block to a big block, just more power everywhere with no lag or delay at any rpm for any reason or under any condition. All supercharged OEM applications use this type of supercharger.

Centifugal superchargers (novitech uses these) make good peak numbers but aren’t as good as either turbos or positive displacement superchargers as they produce the narrowest useable power band.

On my lowly 308 I was running a supercharger at 22 psi on a stock engine and making abot 520-540hp. I just pulled it off though and am switching to a v12 because I just never liked the sound of the supercharger and don't really care for the sound of turbos any better. The new engine will be about 700 hp when I get it done, it's a 400i block overbored to 5.5 liter and fitted with TR 4v heads.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=170171

 

There's nothing wrong at all with turbos, I didn't mean to give that impression in any way. On street cars I personally don't care for more than 5-8 psi because I think the torque jump as the boost comes in gets too big, but that's just personal preference. As far as can is be done, you're right that boost is boost and if a blower works then so will a turbo. Good luck with it!

 

LOL +1

 

no 100% true... boost from a blower is differnt that boost from a turbo... volume is a consideration as is temperature and parsitic drag

 

I'll give you temperature, but at 5-8 psi there will be no significant temperature difference unless you are comparing to a roots type blower which will be higher temperature than other options.

Volume is what determines boost, so equal boost (at similar temp) is equal volume.

Parasitic loss will reduce the net hp of a blower vs a turbo so a turbo will produce a bit more hp at any given boost pressure. But again at 5-8 psi the difference will be quite small and has no effect on ablity to run at any given boost/temp, just net output.

 

The owners are probably waiting for their cars to come out of warranty before they TT em!!

 

Jason Heffner @ http://www.heffnersperformance.com/ has done GT/Lambo and Viper systems for awhile now....I don't know if he's done any F-cars but if I were in the market I would place a call.

 

i cant believe the b/s i am seeing in this thread. "if u tt a ferrari, it wont drive like a ferrari anymore?"
LOL

my 360tt done by classic coach drives EXACTLY like a regular 360 modena when it is not pushed (meaning u redline it everytime u are at a traffic light). u will not even notice the difference. however when u floor it, that's when it opens up and drives like an enzo

 

Now Hubert, you and I have spoken about this same topic before, and I love the idea however, I have had allot of advise telling me specifically not to persue it. From what I have heard from racing engineers, mechanics etc is that track performance will be hindered a bit due to the off-balanced elements of the car.

Now mke below says that is nonsense... I may be wrong, my advise may be bad, who knows. After all, I am still the one here without a TT'd Ferrari, so I have no experience of my own. But you do...

My thought always was, that entering a turn and hitting the throttle going out of it would pull the back end of the car out due to the turbo lag and the boost of power thereafter. Supercharging was always my preferred option due to the steady supply of power.

That really does sound awesome! To each his own - definitely give photos!



_J

 

You are correct that entering a turn and hitting the throttle will most definitely throw the back end out with or without a turbo. The throttle needs to be rolled in smoothly and that take lag out of the equation.

Where you get into trouble with turbos is the boost threshold or the step in the torque curve that occurs about where the turbo really starts to make boost, normally about 1/3-1/2 redline on most steps but it can be as high as 2/3 redline on very high boost applications. With any engine you need to be conscious of what the power curve looks like and you absolutely do not want the engine pulling through the boost threshold mid corner or you will find your self in trouble in no time flat.

I used to race a ZX6 motorcycle and stock the torque actually went down from about 9000-9500 then shot back up by 9800. If you were foolish enough be down around 9k entering the turn you were in trouble. As you roll the throttle in the torque was actually dropping so you’d want to roll in more throttle then about 9600-9700 as the torque shot back up the back tire would come loose and spin making you low side unless you snapped the throttle closed which would probably high side you…..ask me how I know

Anyway, stay above any abrupt torque changes and life will be just fine whether it’s naturally aspirated, turbo’d or supercharged.

The old engine and the new one coming together
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last turbo car you drove was ???

you won't see turbo lag on the track since you won't let the revs drop off that far. or are you saying that cars like the porsche 911tt are a horrible mistake for the track?

 

A properly done turbo system will make the car better in every way. If I can be of any assistance please let me know.

Jason Heffner
Heffner Performance, Inc.
941-359-0900
e mail: [email protected]

 

Mike:

If you were a fan of Reg Pridmore, and some of us who raced in the 70s, you'd note that we liked leaving a little rubber off the corners. You had to be able to regulate the throttle off the corner, to keep from hearing that little "click" when you'd run out of steering correction, because it meant high side.

Art

 

BTW, just wanted to add that the F430 already performs like a turbo car. it's positively anemic below 3500 RPM and doesn't really get going until 4500 RPM.

 

If you need a project to eat up your time and money, then by all means go for a turbo or supercharged F car. Just be aware the thing will work properly only 60% of the time (even done properly), you'll be a slave to the tuner/installer (better live close to hime/her), and when you break down (which you will), there will be no authorized F dealer who will even look at your car. And then, when you horrifically succeed and then try to sell the car, no one will want it, suspecting you've buggered up the engine or bullied it toward senility before its time. Regarding advice provided by informed turbo or supercharger enthusiasts, my take is they talke 98% off-the-shelf naivite. Just my humble opinion having had a team design and install a one of a kind supercharger on my M5, modifying the turbos on my Porsche 993 twin turbo, and having the wisdom to walk my CS away from the church of turbo preachers. Then again, if you need a proect to eat up your time and money, then ...;