Some data for future ref (Cessna 2007 price & specs)... Skyhawk Cruise * 80% power at 8,000 ft 580nm Cruise, 80% power at 8,000 ft 122 kts 468 lbs $219,500 Skyhawk SP Cruise * 75% power at 8,500 ft 518nm Cruise, 75% power at 8,500 ft 124 kts 545 lbs $254,500 Skylane Cruise * 80% power at 7,000 ft 773 nm Cruise, 80% power at 7,000 ft 145 kts 1,140 lbs $349,500 Turbo Skylane Cruise *88% power at 12,500 ft 615 nm Cruise, 88% power at 12,500 ft. 159 kts 1,037 lbs $379,500
Some data for future ref (Cirrus 2007 price & specs)... Cirrus SR20 Cruise Range with Reserve (55% Power) 745 nm Cruise Speed (75% Power) 156 KTAS Full Fuel Payload 594 lbs $347,500 Cirrus SR22 Cruise Range with Reserve 700 nm Cruise Speed (75% Power) 185 KTAS Full Fuel Payload 664 lbs $467,500
Wow, Mooney has unbelievable range compared to the others and great speeds. Is Mooney about the best single piston for $500k and less? Some data for future ref (Mooney 2007 price & specs)... Mooney Ovation2 GX Long Range Std. Fuel (with res.) nm 1,860 Normal Cruise Speed - 8,000 ft. 190 ktas Approx. Useful Load lb 1,107 $449,000 Mooney Ovation3 Long Range Std. Fuel (with res.) nm 1,860 Normal Cruise Speed - 8,000 ft. 197 ktas Approx. Useful Load lb 1,107 $469,000 Mooney Acclaim Long Range Std. Fuel (with res.) nm 1,445 Normal Cruise Speed - 25,000 ft. 237 ktas Approx. Useful Load lb 1,015 $579,900
My recommendation is to learn how to fly with the flight school 172's and then buy a 182 after you get your license. 182's are great cross county airplanes and pretty much if you can get it through the door, you can haul it. I'd buy a newer one that's had a hangar to live in and has had good care for about $125-150K. Use the rest of your $250K for trips. By the time you get your license you'll know what kind of airplane you want to fly. Bob Wassam
Hi Rob, I've been on-again off-again learning to fly. I have 38hrs, and still haven't solo'd. So weight what I say with a grain of salt. I've flown a couple of 150's. One when I was very young, and twice since then. I'm 6'-180lbs, and I don't think I'll ever fly in a 150 again. I have flown 172's, 180hp 172's, 160/180 Warriors about equally. One of the neat things about the Cessna is that there's an easy trick to landing a 172, but it probably won't make you a competent pilot in other than normal circumstances. So I almost wish I'd never learned it. But once you learn it, it's hard not to let the plane land itself. Not so with the Cherokees though. Or at least, I' haven't learned an easy trick to landing one. But that's okay too. The Cherokees are easy to fly and I actually prefer them over the Cessna's. I've also flown an Archer and did my first couple of greasers in that plane. One of the nice things about Cessna's and Cherokee's (should you buy one) is that there are a ton of parts for them. And no matter where you are, should you need help, it's with little doubt that the local mechanic (wherever you happen to find yourself) will have seen one before, and know his way around your aircraft. I too have thought about purchasing an airplane. In fact, until the Dino landed in my lap, buying an airplane was first on my list. What I had settled on, to complete my training was a R24 Sierra. I talked with the insurance folks, and they said it wouldn't be a problem. In fact, their opinion was that it was better that someone learn a more complex aircraft from the start. I'd been told that insurance would be a problem. But I happily found the case to be otherwise. I just needed to settle on what I wanted and what I could reasonably afford. The other option for me at the time, was a Musketeer. Kind'a doppy, not fast, not a real 4-seater either. But very sturdy, and it has the same elbow room as a Beech twin. So I'm guessing it would be a lot more comfortable than either the Cessna or the Cherokee. The Musketeer is also less money. But you have to beware what year you get, as some have the Continental IO346a engine that you can no longer get parts for. I know of a guy that does a mod to them, using heads from a 550, but all that stuff gets very expensive very quickly. So, with a little extra money the Sierra seemed more practical and I'd kind'a settled on that instead. The one I looked at here in Van Nuys last year was $54K and it had a very nice original interior and it appeard to have been very well maintained. I never flew it though, and then the Ferrari came into my life and changed everything. At least for the time being. I keep looking though. And another option that seems VERY practical to me is the DA20. I understand the Air Force uses them as trainers now too. And you can pick one up for about 100K, and when you tire of it, and want to move on to something else, I think it would be easy to trade-up, as they seem to be very popular. I'll bet the savvy advice is just like the cars. Find the type you want, and then buy the best example you can find. Which (of course) may not necessarily be the one with the least amount of hours.
Rob you are just starting out. once you get your certificate you need to go out and scare yourself but Safely. a 172 would work or I would say an older 182 if you want to get a little more advanced get a turbo 182 RG. you don't need to spend $250k you can get good one for about $130. Learn to fly before you try to go to the moon Hey switches I have a few 195 flights in my logbook Great plane. Also rob if you want to have some fun get a taildragger 170 or 180 there are a lot of clubs out there that go al over the place. I had a student who got one and spent a summer flying to different places BIG FUN airfreddy
I would be carfull of any leasing deal. I lost my skinny little butt. burn me once shame on you. burn me twice shame on me airfreddy
Hi Rob, Wanted to see if you made a choice on the plane you plan on purchasing yet. If so do you mind sharing? I'm looking at getting one as well. I haven't flown much and would need to get my PPL as well. I'm looking at the Cirrus, and lessons will come when / if I decide to get the plane. Have you looked into the Cirrus? Hammer P.S. FChat Migration...
Well, I've decided to finish my private pilot, then I will get tail wheel, complex, and high performance while also working towards my instrument before I even consider it. I want to have at least 100 hours and maybe even the instrument before I actually buy one. I like the Cirrus, but have heard the insurance is a bear. I think with training in the 172, the 182 will be the perfect first plane. In several years and a few hundred more hours who knows what I'll be interested in. The 182 can carry 4 adults OK and also handle our 420 nm trips to Kansas. The big question now would be, new 182 with glass to maybe leaseback or older 182 that performs better and is MUCH less expensive.
Rob, now we share Ferrari's and Flying. I have flown them all, Bonanzas, Debonairs, 172's, 182's and 152's but the easiest to own and fly and best performing plane (for what it is) that I have operated is a Grumman Tiger. Goflyingtigers uses the planes as trainers at Hobby Airport in Houston and IMHO they are amazing airplanes. I have owned a Debonair, was partners in a Bonanza and a MU-2 and while the planes were faster, roomier and more attractive the maintainence on all RG aircraft is steep. My time in a turbine made buying a windshield wiper stalk for the 328 seem like nothing. I even stopped flying for a while because I got fed up with the cost. I went back to flying, after a because I missed the mental exercise and I am getting myself refreshed at Goflyingtigers. Last week in the Tiger, ATC routed me ahead of a SWA737 because of a thunderstorm approaching Hobby -- the controller wanted to get me out of the pattern. The plane performed great in far less than optimum conditions. Frankly, I thought the Tiger has a lot less yaw/pitch issues than the Bonanza. Although the Tigers were made by 3 different manufacturers (and the last one filed bankruptcy this year I think) the service history on the planes is pretty good. One trick on the construction of the plane was that the skin was bonded rather than riveted which reduces a significant amount of friction. But, if you want comfort get an A36. I tried, through the two Beechcrafts and the MU-2, to get the family to travel on the planes and it just never worked out. It would either be that I was too tired to safely do the journey so we went commercial, one of the kids would have a friend whose parents were adverse to light aircraft so we went commercial, or the destination out of Houston was just too far to work in our time budget so we went commercial. I just found out in my own experience that when I traveled with the family it was nearly always on a commercial airline. And, after a groundstop at Orlando a few years ago no one would fly in the Bonanza once the summer heat came. IMHO buying a plane for family travel in the playstation generation requires airconditioning and a bathroom neither of which is in my budget. I guess my final word before you buy anything is to realistically think about what you will use the plane for.
I have a bit of time in one and that is a beautiful airplane, beautifully balanced , comfortable , and solid. I have good memories of 300 Bravo
Thanks for the ongoing advice. I'm just focused on getting my license now. Will probably get some endorsements and maybe instrument before buying a plane. If I go used, I will consider a ton of planes. If the tax consultants give me good news for a plane purchase and I can go new, I really like the Skylane. They all have glass now.
One word of caution on Grumman Aircraft. There is an AD on the bonded wings as some models or years the wing bonding began to delaminate. If that is the route you intend to pursue, just a short word of caution. Tigers are a kick. The canopy (which can be opened in flight) provides a surpurb view, albeit roasting you on a hot day. They are very responsive and are fun to fly. Don't know much about the load carrying ability, but I do have time in my logbool with 3 adults and no baggage. The free castering nosewheel and differential brake steering take a bit of getting used to as it is not intuative with most other steering systems which use rudder pedals. Airspeed and hight above runway on landing are critical as the aircraft has a tendency to porpoise if the nose comes down too fast. The first bounce is a bit, the second one is bigger and the third one has youi buying a prop and perhaps overhauling an engine. A porpoise is grounds for a go-around on the first bounce. Planeflyr
Keep your hand near the throttle in a Tiger and you will be okay. The plane probably needs a little more care on landing but the canopy is such a kick that it is more than an ample tradeoff. While you get roasted if it is closed, open (and you can fly with it open about 3 inches) it is a great AC system.
I have a bit of time in a Tiger and absolutely loved it - very fast (for what it is) with very low maint. if you get a good one. It is very efficient on a XC and really really handles well in the air - of course that relatively high wing loading in the basic Jim Bede ( more well known for the BD-5J Jet) design that gives that wonderful "fighter-like" feeling does require some power on approach, but not that big of a deal. My favorite sortie in a Tiger was flying from Clark Air Base Aero Club and landing on Corrigodor in Manila Bay for a tour and lunch. Since you are primarily interested in XC, I think most of the "usual suspects" have been well covered. My first airplane was a 7AC Aeronca Champ after I got my license -- I may have gotten my license in a 172, but I learned to fly in the Champ. It'a all about energy management. And I can tell you from personal experience -- if you can fly a 65 hp Champ well, you will not have much problem in a 600 hp T-6...and if you can fly a T-6, well..... Have fun!!!
I started taking my training at TEB (NJ) in the early 1990's. I was flying with the local flight school. It was miserable. Cancellations, planes down or unavailable when I was. I gave up after about 6 months. I went to another flight school 6 months later. It was difficult, but I got my private. Shortly thereafter I bought my plane (a 1971 Grumman Yankee AA1). About a year later, I decided to get my instrument. I hired an instructor to fly with me every evening. It was wonderful. We could go whenever we wanted! I got done in a few months while working full time! I am sure there are flight schools that are easier to work with than the ones I went to. But I still recommend to anyone I can to buy the plane if possible.
If you haven't done so already, you should try and look at a flight school with the diamond 20 airplane, that is what i did my training in and it makes you feel very safe because it is one of the safest planes on the market. Also for a first plane you should check out the diamond 40 airplane, it has 4 seats and again is very safe and light. The good thing about learning in a diamond 20, is that it keeps the cost down on rental, that is if you are renting or using your own plane. And the diamond 40 usually runs between 250k-450k it just depends on what electronics you want, and its tacks
Tell me the advantage of a Cessna 185 over 180 except for 400 lbs more carrying? Are the stats I have accurate that a 180 will only cruise 5 kts. less (142) and have better fuel flow with the 230 HP Continental? So if the 180 has the load carrying I want for 4 adults on 4 hour trips, what advantage would the 185 be? Also looks like the 180's go for $30-50k less. Thanks.
Pretty hard to beat a straight tail 180. A 170/172 is really a three passenger airplane. The 180/182 is a true 4 place WITH cargo capacity AND range. Put a Horton STOL kit on one one and it and it wont spin, and it wont stop flying until you get it down to nearly 30 kts. If you have to ditch in the water, a FIXED GEAR 170/172/180/182 has a better chance of saving your life over almost ANY other aircraft. Save the 185 for outfitters carrying people and gear to the big resorts, because odds are youll not really never need all it has to offer, and its safety starts to wane away a bit over the 172/180 with higher stall and landing speeds. How often will you need to carry five 200 pound guys and 300 pounds of gear with full tanks??? Plus the 180 has better climb rate, shorter landing and takeoff distances as well as lower costs of maintainance and fuel. Its also a lot cheaper to overhaul.
Who, thanks for the advice, many I have talked to said just go for the 185 over 180 because the power allows a little more capacity, speed, and GPH at same 180 speeds. I appreciate your contrast.
Kevin, ALL PLANES ARE SAFE! It's the unskilled, unprepared, distracted, overworked, pilots that are unsafe. Just read any FAA accident report........ ;-) Charlie
See! I'm not so dumb after all. The three real airplanes that Cessna produced are the 180-185, 195,and the fixed gear Cardinal. IMO Switches
