Looking for info on a 1964 Ferrari 250 GT/L Lusso # 5063

TB Motorcars is now located on N Federal Hwy in Ft Lauderdale FL with the same owner form the VA days, Ed Waterman. There is nothing about 5063 in the S/N books.


It looks like it is missing some unobtainium parts

 

Should be numero interno 1672/62, I think.

 

What an abused Lusso. The special modifications that you ask about are not special at all. These cars back in the day were customized, hot rodded etc.. Adds zero value in my eyes to get the information on who or when this was done. Hope the car gets put back to it's original state.

 

Geno,

When Looked at the car, it gave me the impression that the mods could have been done by the factory - they were done quite well. Why do you think they are not original?

Regards,

Art S.

 

I went through the same issue with my Lusso and all the mods it had. One of the mods was slight flaring on all four wheel openings. The job was done masterfully by some one that could of or should of worked at the Scaglietti factory. It was a shame to cut them off. There were other mods like the very high gearing (411) in the rear end. 40 DSL/6 Webers etc... Rumor was that the car was build for a well known Ferrari Swiss client who wanted to hill climb and use the car for other forms of competition. Unfortunately none of this is traceable or can be verified. The few shops around the Ferrari factory that Ferrari could of out sourced certain work easily could of done these type of mods in period. There is no way of knowing this, as no records were kept by Ferrari or Sport Auto or others. One important point I would like to make is the fact that a lot of these beautiful vintage Ferrari's were unwanted and neglected. Many got hot roded with their 12 cyl engines replaced with GM V8s. Hood scoops and flairs were very common as a form of modification. I spend the whole weekend talking to Mr. Marcel Massini (Ferrari guru/historian). He told me that when it comes to the 250 cars, Ferrari has extremely poor records. Therefore when restoring a car like the Lusso, if one has any desire to show the car or would like to get it back to it's original state, the mods will need to go.

Geno.
PS Is this car for sale?

 

The modifications were reportedly done by Tom Meade in Modena, almost certainly not Factory original. Ed Waterman still has all his old files, so it might be worth trying to contact him to see what he has.

-Jarrett

 

I have a note in my database from broker Mike Sheehan (who has tried to buy this car several times over the years from the current owner) that the modifications were done by Meade. Meade modified the bodywork on quite a few Ferraris in the 1960s and 1970s, including several Lussos, in a similar fashion. Mike might have more details on where he got the information relating to 5063GT. Not sure if Tom Meade is still around or not, but Mike would probably know that as well.

-Jarrett

 

Suggest you contact Steve Krasnavian (Fchatter). He is close to Tom Meade. Tom is located in LA and I met him last March when I visited LA. w/ smiles Jimmy

 

168 is the ENGINE TYPE. Lussos were fitted with 250 GT engines Tipo 168.

The "numero interno" is the internal number used on the engine. Every block, after it has been cast and is ready for assembly, is given a numero interno. This allows records to be kept on the engine BEFORE it is assigned to a chassis. The chassis number is only put on the motor after it has been assigned ("motore deliberato" to a chassis.

The block castings were interchangeable, so a casting might be assembled for use in a 250 GTE, a 250 GT/L, 250 GT PF Cabriolet, 250 GTO, etc. It was what was used in assembling the engine that made it unique for a certain model, not the block.

Ciao,
Gerald Roush
Ferrari Market Letter

 

From the Ferrari Market Letter database:

S/N 5063:

Identified as 250 GT/L. (Kurt Miska "Berlinetta Lusso"). Destinazione n/a. Assembly sequence no. n/a, body no. n/a. (H. Raab's Ferrari Serial Numbers Part I, 2nd ed.).

Offered 1974 as ONE-OFF BODYWORK by Ed Waterman, Arlingotn, VA. (AutoWeek 30 Nov 1974).

Per Kurt Miska May 1976 car has very pronunced tail spoiler, odd side vents in front fenders, additional vents at rear of hood and battery in trunk.

Owned 1975 Richard A. Trebelhorn, Washington, DC. (FAF customer).

Per Kurt Miska "Berlinetta Lusso" p.61 exactly where Lusso S/N 5063 GT fits in and where it was 'built' remains uncertain. Photographed car.

Listed in 1982-1988 FOCUSA Roster(s) by Richard Trebelhorn, Crofton, MD/USA.

I assume Mr. Trebelhorn still owns the car.

I am in regular contact (usually via mail) With Tom Meade if you need help in locating him. But I seriously doubt he will remember much about a car he may have modified ovedr 30 years ago! He did a fair number of cars back then.

Ciao,
Gerald Roush
Ferrari Market Letter

 

The ad in Autoweek (Nov 30 1974) as noted above reads:

"Must sell by Dec 15th" "64 Lusso #5063 One-off $7750" "Special bargain offering on these last few cars expires December 15, 1974. Dealers welcome. Ed Waterman...."

If the car wasn't sold until August 1975, then I guess the "must sell" wasn't too serious.

There's no picture attached to the ad. He also had 330GTC #9181 & #8991, and 365GTC/4 #15199 in the same ad.

 

Picture of car when owned by Mr. Trebelhorn.
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Maybe this is better
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Bill-

It was nice meeting you too. BTW it was a 1974 365 GT4/BB that was blue. The 1981 512 BBi was red. I think the owner is very close to finding out who was behind the mods. Maybe it was Tom Meade. The owner can do what ever he wants, it's his car. However as you stated: "maintain his car's history" is not what he will be doing IMO. These are special cars and the purest in me would prefer to see it go back to it's original state. Let the hundreds of thousands of Camaros or Mustangs be moded, not the 350 Lussos that were made.

Geno.



Hi Geno,
Glad to hear from you again! I met you at the 2008 Cavallino Classic when you showed your '81 Blue 512BBi. With regards to the modifications of this car, this is how the owner purchased it back in 1975. Correction...not with the mismatch color, etc. The owner did write to the factory inquiring about the nose, bonnet and side vents as well as the rear spoiler. They sent him the build sheets and wrote "That's all we know". Just like you mentioned above. I'm waiting to get a copy of them to see what they say.

The owner has no intention of getting rid of the mods on the car. He wants to keep it the way he bought it. He was just hoping to find out who made the changes and why so he can maintain his car's history. And no...the car is not for sale.




If anyone else has any more information/leads that I can follow, I would really appreciate it.

Bill[/QUOTE]